Coachinginterview

TURN YOUR CYCLING PASSION INTO A PROFESSION | JACK BURKE

with Jack Burke

1:03:09·10 April 2024

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JACK BURKE

Jack Burke is a Canadian Continental-level professional cyclist who spent eight years racing at the Conti tier — five of them based in Europe — and the author of Turn Your Cycling Passion Into A Profession. He is one of the few riders to have written candidly about the business of being a sub-WorldTour pro: the financial losses, the mentorship pathways, and the difficult honesty required to know when to push on and when to start chapter two.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Continental-level pro cycling is a net financial loss for most non- European riders. Most quit within 1–2 years; Jack Burke lasted 8 years (5 in Europe), making survival at that tier a specific skill itself.
The biggest career step is no longer Continental → WorldTour. It's club team → development team, because development teams now operate at WT-quality. Miss that junior/U23 pipeline and the pathway closes.
Crash risk in the modern peloton is now the hardest part of a pro career — harder than training load or altitude time. Long-term physical risk has to factor explicitly into the plan.
Mentor-seeking advice: ask the top-tier riders, not the journalists who could promote you. Pros typically give more time to young aspiring riders than to media contacts because they remember being that kid.
Don't specialise too early at lower levels. You need to be competitive at everything before stepping up — when you reach the next pond, the global talent exposes single-skill riders instantly.

TOPICS

CYCLING COACHING

CHAPTERS

Jack Burke spent eight years racing at the Continental level in Europe—longer than most aspiring pros last—and wrote a book on how to turn cycling passion into a profession. He's not a World Tour rider, but he's uniquely qualified to guide you through the roadblocks most riders face, and his journey reveals lessons about mentorship, mental resilience, and knowing when to commit or move on.

Key Takeaways

Build a team of mentors who've actually been to the highest level and aren't afraid to tell you hard truths. Seek them out respectfully—top athletes often give more time to young dreamers than to people who could advance their careers.
Get to Europe as soon as possible if you're serious about pro cycling. The jump from club teams to development teams is now bigger than the jump to World Tour, and you need to prove you can adapt to living and racing in Europe.
Track hard stats and undeniable evidence of progress year-on-year. Confidence isn't affirmations—it's having a stack of data showing you're getting better. Without measurable improvement, it's time to reassess.
Appreciate the special window of your life when everything is about chasing your dream. Starting chapter two at 30 after giving it everything isn't failure—it's the worst-case scenario, and it's not that bad.
Don't lean on being a specialist too early. At lower levels, you need to be competitive at everything because when you step up to a bigger pond, you'll face talent from around the world and get exposed fast.
Evaluate your mentors critically. Good intentions don't equal good advice. Someone who won a local gravel race might tell you you'll win Paris-Roubaix, but that doesn't make it true.

Expert Quotes

"Confidence is not showing affirmations in the mirror to have confidence. Confidence is having a stack of undeniable evidence that you are who you say you are."

"We will never be here again. This is a special time in your life where everything is about you and you get to chase your dream. Appreciate it, even though it's brutal."

"The biggest step in professional cycling used to be the jump to World Tour. Now the bigger step is actually from club teams to development teams, because the development teams are basically World Tour now."

CLAIMS FROM THIS EPISODE

Each tagged with the strength of evidence behind it.

ANECDOTE
Jack Burke is a Canadian Continental-level professional cyclist (8 years pro, 5 of which based in Europe) and author of a book on the practical career path of becoming a professional cyclist.
Source: Jack Burke, interviewed on the Roadman Cycling podcast
EXPERT
Burke argues most non-European riders at Continental level operate at a net financial loss and the majority quit within one or two seasons once that reality is clear.
Source: Jack Burke, Roadman Cycling podcast
EXPERT
The biggest pipeline jump in pro cycling, in Burke's framing, is from club teams to development teams (rather than Continental → WorldTour) because development teams now operate at a WorldTour-equivalent level — riders missing that pipeline window face long odds.
Source: Jack Burke, Roadman Cycling podcast
EXPERT
Burke identifies escalating crash risk in the modern peloton as the hardest part of a contemporary professional cycling career — outweighing training load and altitude camps as the binding constraint on long-term participation.
Source: Jack Burke, Roadman Cycling podcast
OPINION
Burke advises young riders that pro athletes are typically more responsive to mentorship requests from aspiring kids than to journalists or industry figures — they remember being on the other side of the same emails.
Source: Jack Burke, Roadman Cycling podcast

RESOURCES MENTIONED

EpisodeSecrets Of The Worlds Fastest Hill Climber — Jack Burke
EpisodeHow an Amateur Beat Pogačar — Andrew Feather
BookTurn Your Cycling Passion Into A Profession (book)Jack Burke
ArticleHow to find a cycling coach

KEY QUOTES

“I spent five years at the kti level in Europe and like or I spent eight years at the kti level five of them were in Europe and as far as everyone else that I know it's like most guys go to Europe if they're not European they go to Europe they last the conty level for one or maybe two years and then they they go either they make it or they quit and go home”
Jack Burke — Professional cyclist and author

“the biggest step in procycling was the jump up to the world tour now the development teams are so good that the bigger step is actually from the club teams to the development teams because the development teams are basically World Tour now like you look at the best under 23 in junior teams it's basically a world tour team so if you miss that pipeline it's incredibly hard to make it”
Jack Burke — Professional cyclist and author

“you would be amazed at they will give a young athlete more time like when it comes to giving advice often more than a journalist who could actually do something for their career like a journalist that's going to write a nice story about them they're probably going to be less motivated for that than to help a young kid because they remember what that was like”
Jack Burke — Professional cyclist and author

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT2 SECTIONS

Jack welcome to the Roan podcast good to be on I've been a long time…

Jack welcome to the Roan podcast good to be on I've been a long time listener how are you my friend I'm fantastic my day is done for the day so I'm just looking up at the mountains enjoying my end of the day I'm looking forward to you Illuminating the dark and gray misery of life as an aspiring pro cyclist in Belgium and we can trade War Stories in a little bit but at the very beginning of this podcast I'm aware that we do have quite diverse audience base so I just want to ground some terminology that we're no doubt gonna come back to time and time again during this podcast for those who might be familiar procyclin has these three levels the top is World Tour which are most are familiar with Pro Cony just under that most probably don't know the difference between Pro Cony and World Tour and then we have a third run below the cony depending on who you talk to if you talk to World Tour guys they don't really consider this Pro average jok open on the probably does consider this Pro so it's somewhat of a gray area I think it's safe to say that your expenses probably outweigh your income as Cony level and that's why most people maybe don't consider it a pro level running on in our my kind a start here to ground it don't worry I will come to a a question eventually in this the elephant in the room at the very start of this is you've written a book and we're going to talk for the next 3540 minutes about how to be a pro cyclist and some would argue that you haven't actually made it to being a pro cyclist I'm sure you've heard this criticism time and time again so let's get this one out of the way so we can get into the meats meat and potatoes of it how do you respond to that yeah so here's the thing so I I started writing this book six years ago like I started writing it a long time ago and I never felt Justified writing it because in my mind like the three goals of my career were world tour tour to France and Olympics like I wanted to do those three things and until I'd done those I felt like I wasn't Justified to write a book on how to become a pro cyclist and so I was just taking notes on it throughout my whole career because when I finished my career I wanted to be able to give a guide for younger me to be like this is everything you need to know in the one single guide because coaching is expensive and having great mentors is down to luck and I I didn't feel Justified writing it and I wrote the book and then the feedback was great on it and what I sort of realized is where I was qualified to it is like I I agree like in my opinion the like true Pro cycling is World Tour level and so to me it's like well I only ever made it to the kti level but I do think I was unique in one area to give advice is I spent five years at the kti level in Europe and like or I spent eight years at the kti level five of them were in Europe and as far as everyone else that I know it's like most guys go to Europe if they're not European they go to Europe they last the conty level for one or maybe two years and then they they go either they make it or they quit and go home and it's because it's just it's so hard like you're just like bar trying to survive there like if you can't live with your parents place if you're trying to find places to live it's really hard and so I actually thought I had probably the most experience to teach it people the in between Parts like I don't know what it's like to be selected for the tour or walk in on the opening ceremonies at the Olympics but if you want help figuring out all the in between stuff it's like I don't think I had it any harder I don't think I'm any better I've just done it for longer so it's like okay I probably figured out more of the roadblocks that a lot of guys would have to figure out and that's why I just wanted to write the guide to help the Next Generation sort of navigate those parts but I also think it's import important to say that even if you're listening to this podcast now and you don't have aspirations to be a pro cyclist you're going to learn an awful lot from your journey yeah that's the thing so I I wrote the book to be like for a very specific audience like I was writing to 15 20 and 25y old me but the most people that have read the book and've written the nicest reviews are people that have absolutely no interest in being a pro cyclist just like the life lessons in just like General St so the thing is when I started writing I didn't because I didn't feel qualified to write this book I didn't want to put any of my stories in it I just wanted to keep it to the information that was passed on to me because I was really lucky that I had access to so many of the best writers and coaches in the world it's like I'm just going to take all that information and put it into a guide leave me out of it then I had to start putting in my story into it in order to make everything was chronological and make sense and it turns out that's actually the part A lot of the majority of the people found interesting the most is just the stories and that's actually really nice that we can view this book and this conversation through two lenses that if you do want to be a pro cyclist yes you can take something away from it if you don't and you want to just look vicariously in on the Journey of an aspiring pro cyclist and take lessons that you can apply to your own life you can do that as well because also in this there's a maybe on that surface level we talk about there kind of wanting to be a pro cyclist as an underline assumption that you know you should want to be a pro cyclist that that's something worth striving for which is it it's maybe a a separate debate and it's one that with age I've maybe changed my opinion on I think it's how we define success and if you look at some of the very top athletes in our sport there's an argument to say World Tour has it's become a very lonely place the sacrifices needed to stay there they're greater and greater each year you know Jay vine on the podcast not too long ago and the amount of days these guys spend the altitude away from family now it basically rolls from one altitude Camp to a race to an altitude Camp the season from the whs to tore down under there's such a small Gap it's not something everybody show a SPO to head towards yeah I mean so I I agree with all of that for me it was a little bit different so for me like I actually like my favorite holiday it's like going on an altitude camp in lainho like I love that like that's fun I love going to a place just to go train the house down and live like a monk and I think especially like that's definitely the part that appeals to the 21y old kids as well it's like when you haven't when your world is very small when you're young when you haven't really seen other parts of life and all you want to do is focus on training like that's the greatest thing ever and that's I love that like I still love going somewhere where I can just focus and live like a monk it's not the the time away from home that really bothers me but I like I I still love the life of a pro athlete like it's I think it's awesome uh for me and what I hear from a lot of other guys cuz a lot of my friends are and like old teammates are guys in the world tour now and for a lot of them they all say it's like the danger part is the part that makes it not fun anymore like it's just I I really think cycling changed after the covid lockdowns and like just this the pressure got twisted up that much more and then you had teams fighting so hard for points and now the difference is the the Gap I don't think the fastest guys going up the mountain are that much faster than they were 10 years ago but the difference is the gap between the fast fastest guy and the 200th fastest guy is smaller than ever so everybody's just as fast going up the mountain maybe take away Primos and yonas away that them aside everybody's just about as fast going up the mountain so everybody's making the differences on the downhills and because the equipment has gotten so good and you have things like V viewer and you have guys just staring at their garment to look at the map on the downhill to look at the corners it's like you're really playing with the The Edge and I think a lot and I was the same way when you're really young when you're 21 years old and you haven't hit the deck that hard or you haven't seen that many bad crashes you don't realize like how big the consequences are here I was going to touch on that because the biggest thing that's changed yeah there's technology but Technology's always been moving the biggest thing to change actually you it's your age you know if I still chat to you know guys that are one generation ahead of me they talk about my generation oh you guys came along and with these crazy risks and then I talk to and I train with some kids who are like 17 18 19 now and it's the exact same thing they don't see any risk they just they just see it as this is normal it I think it's us the changes it's there's a great uh quote from sen man never walks in the same river twice because it's never the same river and it's never the same man yeah of course and again I have to be careful that I'm not the old man in this and I would never tell guys to not fight like okay I'm 28 I'm not that old but like I I completely get it like when guys say when when you hear like yeah let's say the older Riders say they want to give advice to the younger guys and the younger guys just say ah like you know [ __ ] off whatever and like it's like like I I understand that and I would never like if somebody said that to me I wouldn't take offense to that because I'm like yeah I would have done the same thing when I was 20 years old like they're just fired up they want to fight but it's just like guys like this isn't like football or hockey where like the worst thing that's going to happen you is a concussion like there's real consequences here like when you're going 100K an hour bumping shoulders in the rain and we like we can't really see where we're going right now like you're going you go around some of the corners on like the gavia and you're looking it's like there's no guardrail there like if you go over that corner right there that that's finished that you're going off the face of the Mountain at least we got disc breaks now though I remember going down the the gavia in the rain without disc brakes on carbon rims you can't stop you're just hoping no one else can stop yeah yeah that's true but okay here's the other side of it so I don't know if you remember this but so tour of Slovenia in 2022 there was uh there was one stage where we got rain on it and the why this was like unique is there's a funny there was a funny YouTube video that was going around for a while that got a lot of clicks that was pogacha yelling like [ __ ] these tires on the downhill and like everybody was just laughing at this I was in that race I was in the group about like you know few minutes behind or like 200 or two kilometers behind the human motorcycle but because we were going down this descent and it was like a hockey rink it was so slippery and because you have disc brakes now guys are playing with the edge of traction with their tires so much more and so the difference in tires makes such a difference and we looked at the stage the the k results for like the the downhill segment after the stage and you could see everybody on Continental Tires was all the top 10 on this downhill and so guys are playing right on the edge of their tires traction like you're pushing it that hard on the downhills now and it's like yeah okay we're just we're g to take even more risks now because you can really just it's so scary like it's it's something I don't think that and it's actually a nice place to start I want to get on to the Tactical advice in a second but it is a nice place to start cuz from the outside this is maybe what's entertaining when you're on the inside or if you're related to somebody this is somebody's husband this is somebody's son this is somebody's brother this is somebody's sister that are taking these chances and safety is something we should take seriously does a race out your part of the world to a b and I remember coming down a descent on that in the rain just completely straight descent looking down at my speed out and I doing 112k an hour and seeing this one kid beside me hitting what he thought was a puddle and it turned out was a pul I haven't seen the kid since I can only assume he was vaporized like I don't no idea what happened to him gone but you hit a p at 112k an hour it's not good like I don't know if you went to hospital in a helicopter but it's not good my wish is hands down the best virtual cycling app for home and it's redefining indoor training at no cost yep it's absolutely free and setting up my wish is really easy just download the My Wish app connect to your device like your W bike or your smart trainer and off you go now if you're feeling competitive there's weekly races for every category from beginner to Pro plus there's insane prize money upper grabs now if you've no plan to race that's no problem there's hundreds of free training plans and workouts that are designed to really push you to your limits you can enjoy daily group rides and group workouts and you can customize your avatar all without opening your wallet so go on over to the My Wish app and have a look around why spend money on monthly subscriptions elsewhere when my wish offers all of this for free so join my wish today it's available on iOS Mac OS Google play Apple TV or click on the link in the show notes to get started yeah yeah and so here's the thing it's like as much as I there's like a bit of a gray Zone where I actually think it's the most dangerous and I think actually at the very highest level like the world tour level teams it's the guys aren't quite as desperate for that so but because they're paid real salaries and it's like they're not willing to risk their life for it it's more I find it's actually even maybe danger more dangerous at like the point two level races or in some of the grand fondos where like I've only done like maybe three or four grand fondos in my life and they're like they're super fun they're great but then you see like guy because they're allowed to Super tuck in the race and you see some guys super tucking on these downhills but it's like they go around the corner like a boat and you're just like man like I you're this I can't watch this like it's like a grenade that you want to stay away from and like I I get it everyone wants to go fast and you like feel cool and stuff like that but I don't know if you have the skills to pull this off right now yeah talk to me about Frameworks Jack I I love the idea of Frameworks because there's something like a yellow brick road about it like if I go into the dentist and My outcome goal I want is to have clean straight white teeth the dentist doesn't just tell me to do one thing he doesn't just say hey just brush your teeth and you're good he gives me a framework like a recipes like you know brush twice a day floss once a day come back once every two months for a whitening and a checkup and a root canal or whatever his framework is and that gets me the outcome I want if the outcome I want is to be a professional cyclist how do I start approaching this framework question yeah okay so this is literally the whole book so I thought about this quite a bit so I mean okay here here's the keys that you need to know the the best rule I can think of is to build a great team of mentors so you need to build your team of mentors who to learn from and that's the best resource you'll get and for me it was four guys it was Swain tuft Palo San Kevin field and Mike Creed and those were guys where I just realized that I'm very stubborn I'm bad at listening so when they speak I'm going to shut up and just listen and so him on the podcast a couple of times yeah SW is uh outside of uh yeah that guy has given me he's like family to me he's really been unbelievable to me but um build a great team of mentors uh learn how to ask intelligent questions in reach because like also I've had like Chris F and anim V Von were both like two people that gave me so much their time and like they like invite me to go training like spend time with it answer questions like all like I never thought I'd even speak to these people like like I was so nervous to even be around these people and they're giving me all this advice and like they're really if you know how to ask intelligent questions you're respectful you don't ask for favors like you would be amazed at how much help you can get from people because they know what it's like to be chasing that dream that's the first thing so just to get tactical on that this is intimidating as you know cycling changed a lot even in you know from my generation to yours it's changed quite a bit because you could be a pro cyclist at 27 28 no problem or you could even start your career at that age now you know you're 28 with you respect it's going to get more and more difficult for you to step up to the world tour at that age you're looking at kids now at 17 18 making that step and signing development contracts at that age how do you start cultivating Mentor relationships are you cold reaching out to people on social media are you trying to engineer your way into their group rides or what's your process yeah uh to reach out to mentors I would say yeah just just be willing to reach out and not everybody's going to give you an answer but you would be stunned at I mean okay so with Chris fan and amek for example like those are two really big stars and so the way I got in contact with them is I was invited to a training camp with Chris room and with animi I happened to be at a training camp and she was also there and she just invited me to go training with her a couple times so it like I those weren't reaching out on Instagram but uh with a lot of Pros it's a lot of just reaching if you can get in contact with them as long as you know like I I would say yeah reach out to that way I think that's as long as you're respectful you're humble it's like hey this because they understand what it's like and you would be amazed at they will give a young athlete more time like when it comes to giving advice often more than a journalist who could actually do something for their career like a journalist that's going to write a nice story about them they're probably going to be less motivated for that than to help a young kid because they remember what that was like so that's your first thing you would do as a kind of an aspiring what's what's our next step so have a great team of mentors that's the first thing um I mean you got to get to Europe as soon as you can that that's like it's it's a different sport and whether you're coming from Canada the US Australia any of that like it's unfortunately you do have to get to Europe um a very big thing and so I talk about this a lot on my podcast is just talking to other pro cyclist and getting asking them basically the question you just asked me like if you miss that cut off if you miss that under 23 cut off how do you make it now and the reality is it used to be the biggest step in procycling was the jump up to the world tour now the development teams are so good that the bigger step is actually from the club teams to the development teams because the development teams are basically World Tour now like you look at the best under 23 in junior teams it's basically a world tour team so if you miss that pipeline it's incredibly hard to make it can I push back on the get to Euro point I do think it's important to look for signals of success along the way because we're seeing this Duality emerging where you're seeing a lot of writers who live in a little bit of a vacuum where they have all the ice kit they like rolling to the coffee shop they like getting their cat One race license but their kind of identity is built on training a little bit harder and a little bit smarter than some of their peers and beating up on guys who aren't at their level they're not they're like a I had a gangster on the podcast and he had a brilliant expression about being a gangster and he said everyone wants to be a gangster until it's time to be a gangster and I just think that's so applicable to cycling as well because everyone wants to be a bike rider until it's time to be a bike rider there's a difference between being the Cat 2 cat one guy who wants to pose and wear a good kit and being the dude who's stuck in an Echelon in a race in Europe not everyone is cut out for the second life so I think you do need to look for signals of success to get to Europe or else you're going on an extended you know Rasmus here where you're going away for a gap year and not really exporing to be a pro cyclist totally yeah okay so guess separating the dreamers I suppose is what we're trying to do here like the dreamer filtration yeah and so I I guess I I sort of skipped a step there so the nice thing about cycling is it's very easy to see like if you have like the physical engine to do it and just like an example I'd give is like 2018 was my last year racing in North America I had a good year there and by the end of that year I was I was yeah talking to five different world th teams and all of them said the same thing it's like you have the engine and that the results in North America to show you belong at the highest level but we need to see it in Europe because the two things they're looking for in Europe is one do you know how to race your bike in Europe and how are you going to adapt to living in Europe and I thought that was crazy at the time and then I went to Europe and I realized how right they are so it's like if you really want to make it as a pro cyclist it's like you got to make sure like don't be delusional you do need to make sure like you are strong enough you're fit enough like you can handle this stuff but you also need to understand if you're not from Europe the harder barrier for you is you need to go now rebuild a whole new life in Europe it's like right now if you're a young kid in North America wherever it's like you're doing these Amazing Power numbers in a very comfortable environment maybe you're still living at home where the fridge refills itself and you don't have to pay rent like now go rip up that life and go do it in Europe where you have to handle all that stuff as well and the thing is with these writers that do make it like I came operation with Sam Bennett who's you know famous for being super fast finisher now but at a lower level you're not a fast finisher that's not what s Bennett was s Bennett would win Hilltop finishes like s would rip you apart on a climb like again I got to race Mike Woods quite a bit in North America Woods he known as a climber now he'd ride you clean office wheel on a flat Road like you're they're not Specialists some people lean on that I think too early and say oh I'm a I'm a breakaway specialist I'm a Sprint guy at the lower level you got to be the best at everything because when you step up to that bigger Pond you're pulling from countries all around the world into this Pond and you're going to just you know be exposed to Talent like you've never seen when you get to France Belgium Holland yeah absolutely and a big part of that is like when you're still learning that because it's great to have big dreams and whatnot and try to learn this also comes back to like having those mentors right like pick everybody loves to give advice in cycling and everybody has great intentions but the reality is some people just might not know what they're talking about and so you need to really evaluate your mentors and be like okay has this person actually been to the highest level and like are they qualified to basically give me advice on this or they just there's going to be some people that want to help you they want to give you advice but they just might not know what you're talking about or what they're talking about and so they might see you win a a gravel race in your home country and think you're going to win Perry rube and you're just like yeah I mean you know like if you don't know anything if you're brand new to the sport if you're 15 and you like that's great you're like oh I'm gonna win Perry rube this is awesome like so and so at the local group ride told me this and you're just stoked because you don't know any different right like that's hard when you when you're just starting you don't know the difference between who knows what they're talking about and who has the right intentions but just not the qu right qualifications yeah I'm on board with your steps so far yeah so those would be the first ones um and then okay here's probably the most important thing and this is some this is the biggest lesson I learned from Swain so maybe you'll appreciate this so yeah Swain tough was my biggest Mentor I'd say after my mother he'd be he that guy gave me his time like spent way too much of his life on the phone with me gave me equipment money like everything everything and the biggest thing I took from him is he has a a tattoo on his right arm that reads we will never be here again and what I learned from him was to just appreciate this special time when it's all about you and you get to chase your dream and so like is is as brutal as it is to try to become a pro cyclist like it's it's Grim right like you're do you're going to do some of the most impossible races nobody's ever heard of you're G to be you know covered in road rash and having to finish the race and it's a really hard life but you have to look at you know this is a special time in your life where everything is about you you don't have to you you have the freedom to chase your dream you maybe you don't have as much money coming in but you know the next chapter of life like growing up and becoming a grown-up if you don't make it that will come and that chapter of life is awesome but just appreciate the special time because Swain was I mean he was he dropped out of high school to be a homeless bum riding a a thrift shop mountain bike around North America to go mountain climbing and at some point became a pro cyclist and he talks about like that was the happiest time of his life because he had no money he had nothing but he could sit under a tree and read a book for a while and with me it was it's like well I'm traveling you know just appreciate the this special time in your life where you're free to chase that dream and I think you can also you don't need to be insecured as your friends are getting houses starting relationships buying cars and you're still making 50 a week Racing for a French dn2 team once you decide to go back to the real world you can flick the switch pretty fast you can build that life pretty fast so the idea of being jealous or Foo fear of missing out I don't think should play a factor in it yeah and so here's the thing it's like when if let's say you've been trying to be a pro cyclist since you a teenager when you were 15 16 17 years old everybody in society viewed you as the successful one because you're the one getting up at four in morning to go training before school you're the one not partying not drinking not smoking focusing on your training maybe you get to race for the national team you get to do the World Championships like you're king of the hill by the time you're 25 if you still haven't made it other people have now surpassed you that were drinking and partying and doing all this other stuff and now you're looked at or you maybe look at yourself I can always speak for myself here you look at yourself almost like a failure because everybody else is driving a new car buying a house getting married all this kind of stuff and you're like what the hell like I've been working so hard my whole life and I got nothing for this and that's the draw that pushes guys to move out but the way that I looked at it is like okay what's the worst case scenario here if I wake up at 30 years old I never made it I work my butt off and now I I get out of the sport I got to start chapter two in my life and I have no money I have nothing it's like I can at least live the rest of my life knowing that I gave it everything I had for that I got to travel the world I got all these upsides to it like that's not so bad to have to start chapter 2 of your life at 30 but I know it would absolutely absolutely crush me if I gave up at 2627 and then I move on to next chapter of life and then the vision in my head that was just burned in my brain that scared me so much is I'd be 31 32 years old I'd be in my new life I'd be watching the tour to France one year and like you know I'm three or four years out of the pro cycling world and the tour would be on and it'd be some guy winning a stage at the tour and he's like 31 years old he just got his neopro contract and it's like the feel-good story of the tour this year and that would kill me yeah there you go exactly someone like that and like that's amazing like there's a guy that just didn't quit and I I loved the podcast you did with him that was awesome like such an inspiring story with him it's like there you go I love that idea of worst case scenario because the worst case scenario isn't that bad you know baring crash or anything like that the worst case scenario of playing this out until you're the age 30 31 32 it's not that bad you can start your life no problem I do think you need to balance that with having the e you to know when enough is enough because it starts chipping away at your mental health and away at your confidence like we talked about that idea of you know a filtration system to stop the dreamers from the kind of prospects at the very beginning some sort of advanced or amended version of that filtration system I think needs to be reapplied every year where you say is there signals of progress here am I moving forward am I more likely than I was last year because if you're regressing season on season you know what are you doing because I think it's undermining that confidence you have then to start that next chapter which isn't a hard thing to get start it if you come to it in a good head space but if you come to it as a broken man it's a difficult thing to kickart ro man I'm going to date myself here but I've been riding the bike for almost 20 years and in that time I've cycled through every cycling apparel brand out there and I kept swapping out different apparel Brands each season until I found La call there's something really different about lall and as soon as you slip into the gear you notice it feels different it feels better I've had the pleasure of chatting with yanto Barker on the podcast he's the laal founder and his dedication to crafting the fastest most refined cycling apparel out there it's nothing short of inspiring yanto isn't just trying to create gear I get the feeling he's actively an obsessively trying to perfect cycling gear trust me as soon as you slip on the theall kit as soon as you zip up that Jersey you can feel that commitment the proof for the call it's in the pudding this is the same kit that Jay hindley wore when he clinched overall victory in the juralia there's a confidence that comes with wearing a pearl that's been battle tested and Podium proven in races like the Jalia trust me feeling good on the bike means you're going to perform better if you have a second I highly advise you to jump on over to lol.

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CC and check out their amazing range of Kit and experience this feeling for yourself yeah okay so actually I love this and so I don't know if you know who Alex Heros is but this is a guy that I've been following a lot on all his channels I love his content and he has such a great quote where it says he says it's like confidence is not sh you don't show affirmations in the mirror to have confidence confidence is having a stack of undeniable evidence that you are who you say you are and the nice thing about cycling is you can see stats every year and if you you do have to like make sure you're not delusional right like it's not just hopes and dreams like you do need to have evidence that you are good enough you need to show something every year that you are making progress like have some sort of hard stats there and then again going back to like the mentors thing you need to have a couple mentors that know what they're talking about and they're not afraid to hurt your feelings and for me that was Swain and animi is like they were not afraid to hurt my feelings and tell me like hard Truth at points but the nice thing is it's like when they give you a compliment or something like that then you know it matters it means something as well because you know Mom will always tell you to keep going but like mom might not know what it's like to be a pro cyclist where does Mato Jorgenson's philosophy kind of fit into your framework Mato Jorgenson the way I've looked at him is he's treated himself slightly different to other athletes he's looked at himself more like a a Founder looks at a company where he's looked at it from an Roi perspective and investments into himself so he started investing you know into Advanced Sports Science physiological tests aerodynamics equipment at an earlier stage than we would typically see so so I can actually talk this is hilarious that you said this because I have a whole chapter in my book called Mato Jorgenson because we were teammates and like so he's an example like he's such a great example of this because Matteo and I were teammates in 2018 and so like I can say a lot about this because what I remember about Matteo is when we were teammates like he was nothing special physiologically like he was really average and but what he stood out with is he he absolutely made the most out of the things that he could control when it came to like studying bike racing when you had talked to this guy it sounded like he'd been studying bike racing since he was three years old he and then the thing is we were teammates in 2018 but we barely saw each other because he was always racing with the national team over in Europe he was going to Europe with the national team getting that exposure early and I didn't get like the next year 2019 would have been his first year living in Europe we both made the jump to Europe that year in 2019 I struggled a lot like I had all the physiological numbers and all like I thought I would do well and he was killing it like he had a great year there because he had learned how to do all these other things like he learned how to speak French right away he knew about all these races like these races that you've never even heard of that I'm thinking about like what are these races I don't know anything about this like he made the most of that stuff and then you even talk to I don't know how much of this I can say because it's like it's not really like I don't know if Mato would want this like public but like talking to some of his teammates for example on like past teams he's been on like the guy would invest in like the sports science stuff in his recovery like spend a lot of his own money to invest in stuff to make his training that much better and you know he spent a lot of money doing that and now he's on jumbo like Mato to me is the example of a guy that did not have any sort of physiological super talents but did made the most out of what he had and really executed that stuff well like he was left off action that we were teammates in 2018 he was supposed to get a contract on action and they didn't sign him because they didn't think he was good enough it's like there like he killed it like clearly that fired him up to make it let me corball on this one do you think there's a role for new cyclists in building personal brand in tandem with the normal traditional route to being a cyclist what do you mean are you talking about like uh influencers making their money in the sport yeah I'm not quite talking about influencers I'm more talking about you know Sagan obviously propelled 100% And specialized for over a decade but he had Talent coupled with brandability but if you take a ryer which I don't know if we have any writers doing this very well at the moment but in other sports we do where there's a there's a level at Continental where a lot of Continental writers are roughly the same ability given the right environments like if yumbo signs one of these guys they're they're going to make it into the world tour what separates the reuer a from reuer B like what's the the considerations a team weigh up well they're obviously going to weigh up physiological stuff potential but I'm wondering if one rer has built a huge personal brand as well so it's you and another writer who's your clone but you've built this huge personal brand of hundreds of thousands of Instagram followers all of a sudden now you can sell product you can sell tires for sponsors you are becoming a commodity as well is this the way we're going to see cyclists develop this sort of Tandem value proposition yes I'll get your results but also a realization that General Joe public really doesn't give a [ __ ] who comes top 10 in you know s men that we were talking about earlier like they don't even know what these races are you know outside of the the classics the grand Tours you know unless you're a very very 1% hardcore fan you don't understand these races but you do understand the cyclist on Instagram who has 300,000 followers okay so if we're talking World Tour like Pro Road cycling is that what we're going to stick to that example because I think it's different so if if we're going to talk world tour pro roadcycling if you asked me this question five years ago I would say yeah there's some guys that can get contract because of the social media following I would say now not anymore for two reasons one that the teams on the team side of it they have so much choice for stars that are just so good that they don't care about that as much anymore and on the rider side of it like I don't know any riders that are at a high enough level to be competitive at the world like the level is so high I don't know anybody who's that good at the highest level that can also manage having like a big personal brand like having a a channel on the side like I the example I'm not going to name them but I can think of some examples and it's like they're just like you'd get killed like the the world tour levelon is the one that jumps into mind stra away Keegan has a personal brand would Keegan get the nod over somebody who's comparatively talented that's European no I think they would just look at the results I think like so I Keegan's doing amazing job like representing the brand there and I think it's smarter for him to stick with doing what doing because he probably makes more money with that yeah he definitely does yeah yeah so if but if if a world tour team is looking at Keegan versus some no-name other Rider in Europe I think they're just going to look at stats like I don't think the the Instagram follower stuff will come into play there because it's just I don't think they need it like the level is so high at those races there like it's I don't think that and it's sometimes is that wrong because you look at how broken the model is in professional cycling like sponsoring a pro cycling team it's not sponsoring a procycling team really it's philanthropy there's no return on investment for these sponsors totally and so I think like if I mean if Keegan wanted to be in the world tour they would like the team would only be judging and B based on his results and if a team wanted to work with Keegan they would probably have him doing something like what Lan does where it's like hey we'll pay you a salary but like we're going to put you we're going to get you to do like exposure stuff we're going to leverage that part of you then we're not going to throw you in the races we're going to use you for what you're you're good at there um but like it's it's so messy with different teams because you look at like for example like Red Bull on some of these teams like I think there was some a like uh you couldn't be a Red Bull Athlete on one of the World Tour teams because that World Tour team didn't want to allow some of its Riders to have a different kind of helmet like a Red Bull helmet on and so that team basically like almost kind of shot itself in the foot by saying you're not going to have one of the biggest sponsors in the world come in because you want to have all your Riders have similar looking helmet it's like it's just like it's it's messy versus now you look at Bora like they're going to get red bull as a title sponsor like that's insane like to have a Red Bull team at the tour to France like that's cool for the sport yeah this this might seem like a detour for listeners who are wondering about you know being a pro cyclist but I think it is interesting to hear this insor of perspective from you on what team owners value because then we can calibrate our actions according to those values yeah I would say it's like the level is so high now and the the okay so here's the other thing the pipeline feeding the world tour like the the pipeline of talent coming into the world tour is bigger than ever and it's just like a fire hose that's just blasting now like they have so much choice they don't care how many Instagram followers you have because the other thing it's like I think a lot of them would look at that almost like it's a detractor because they're like this sport is so you have to be so focused on it like the amount of effort that you put into running your Instagram account and look I don't know anything about that right I don't have a big Instagram following at all but they're going to look at that like as far as like okay how much effort is this guy putting into running his Instagram account we would actually rather have him putting that effort into like calorie counting like all the guys use food scales now and they're measuring their calories all the time and that that's real like if I think if you're not the athlete that wants to focus on that stuff like you just won't make it at the world through level it's so dialed and if you're not doing it it's a meat grinder and you're going to get killed what role does food have in this cuz the food's a double-edged sword where obviously we're optimizing for par to weight all the time but then there's a tricky psychological component to food as well yeah so I I asked this question a lot on my podcast as well like the I just trying to like ask the guys like okay because you hear everybody's talking about food scales and stuff so one area that cycling's changed a lot is like nutrition science like sports science around 2019 is when products like Morton and beta fuel came onto the market and that's basically like the gas lines to the engine have just gotten so much bigger so guys can just run it on the on the red line all day long it's not about making the engine more fuel efficient now it's just like let's go flat out when you have sports signs like that now everybody's using food scales but it's not like the same like super anorexic cyclist that you used to see in the generation before now everybody's using these food skills to make sure they're fully fueled up for all their training sessions and all their races without gaining weight so it's not about trying to restrict it's like making sure the gas tank is full when it needs to go without yeah overdoing and gaining weight so I think it's actually much healthier now because guys are just eating more like guys AR aren't starving themselves like they used to so you're not destroying your hormones anymore I think it's healthier but it's literally like it's calorie counting from January to October yeah we got to take yonas out of that conversation obviously is Greg lemon on the podcast a couple of weeks ago his quote yonas is the skinniest human I've ever seen yeah yeah so again there's always the freaks right but like you also look at like look at somebody like sep like sep isn't exactly chunky but like you see him it's like the guy's crushing these huge T-Bone staks like I don't like he's so relax yeah SE is unbelievable right but like there's some of that it's like genetics and like physiology but I think for sure was I don't know yonas at all but yeah I mean there's somebody who's just clearly super dedicated to it but you look at somebody like pogar it's like the guy doesn't look like ripped for it like and that's not a knocking but like he just he just looks like a normal guy like he's not he doesn't look like yeah cyclus of like a generation before 20 years ago it's like they look very scary like skelet on the bike how much value would you put in as Canadian compatriot yours Michael Bar's book is up titled A met the the apprenticeship The graft understanding the traditions of European race and building on that season after season much in the same way a apprentice electrician leaves school and goes in finds a mentor and learns the craft and up skills year on year do you think there's still place for that romance and tradition it's interesting um the way I talk about this is if you want to be a pro cyclist teams are looking for you to have three categories filled and those three categories are uh one do you have like the engine to race to the highest level is there like the physiological Talent here that's power testing straa stuff zift racing all this kind of stuff like is there the athletic Talent two do you know how to race your bike that's the most important one do you have race results that's the only way to prove that and three are you going to fit in well with this team are you a [ __ ] are you a nice guy to fit in the team those are the three categories they look at as you get old that standard gets higher to meet so with the apprenticeship going back to your question there if you're very young like the the thing is they're willing to sign these five-year contracts and stuff willing to develop them like get guys into their development program and develop them from a young age so when you're very young if you're 15 16 17 18 19 years old your standard to meet in those three categories is lower because the team understands we have time to develop the other parts they're just looking for you to have right ingredients do you have the like do you have the right ingredients here for us to create something as you get older you need to show the standard you have to meet is higher in all of those categories yeah and I would say the best thing you can do if you want to develop as a cyclist is I this is hard to even give it advice on but I would say like my first year in Europe I got to race every single week from this I think the last week of February until the second week in October all in Belgium France then the Netherlands like all these like classic style races and I learned more in that single year my development in that single year was more than I'd say like three or four years combined before like you do develop very quickly because if you're just racing in the I can't even I mean you learn the Tactical parts of bike racing that way by doing these classic style races like learning positioning Crosswinds like where like just how to read a race during the race like that's stuff you can only learn by doing it I don't disagree with you that that's what teams are looking for they're looking for data they're looking for Strava data they're looking for power data one they're looking for do you know how to race look palom is too and they're looking if you can fit in I wonder are we optimizing for the wrong thing because we're have no measurable data on who is the best lead out rider in the world we just don't know like this should be an objective question we can answer through Big Data who is the best lead out rer in the world me and you could argue for the next half an hour on the merits of Van Popp versus marov who's a better lead out rer but there is a factually correct answer to this that it will be easily attainable through big data but we've yet to measure it I think we're focused on the wrong thing we're overly focused on physiological data and as much as I love Jay V I've had him on the podcast a bunch of times Jay's a great example his numbers are freakish but that's not all there is to being a bike Riser it's multifaceted and we haven't captured the other facets of it in the same way as we have captured physiological data yeah and so I think this goes back to why it's so hard if you don't get into the pipeline as a young Rider because like they're looking at this stuff like they are learning lead outs at a world tour level at the junior level so I can look at the the use the Junior Team for Bora for example Auto AER which is now like doing this Red Bull Junior Brothers thing that Junior Team like when I've been around them it's like a world tour team they are learning those lead out skills at that level like they're doing race analysis like watching video like an NFL football team is doing like watching gam tape for it and they're learning it at that level so by the time they do get to the world three level yeah everything is sped up but they've already kind of learned these skills at a slow level it's like in like Ball Sports for example like you're still learning hockey football whatever you're still learning a lot of the plays at the younger levels now they're doing that in cycling yeah but we're just not capturing like if you take a criterium example you raced a lot in North America so you look at someone's Pomers and they say okay well they finished in the front split of 20 in a criterium there's many different ways you could finish in the front SPL you could be cruising in fourth wheel for the whole day or you could be sitting in wheel 80 closing gaps all day long they are two ruers that are differently equipped to take the step up to the next level but we've no data to capture that results don't capture that physiological data doesn't capture that actually they do so this this was new to me this so this was new to me and I actually can't speak too much on this because I actually so the one that illuminated this for me was Dan bigam and so he is the super nerd of cycling and I asked him about this and because in in my book in the audiobook there's a podcasts with six other pros and Dan bigam is one of them and just so people get their perspective on it as well and I asked Dan about this and like the question was actually more around like how do you evaluate a Rider's efficiency in the bunch like can you see like who is really what we're trying to do yeah exactly and so I asked him about this and he said yeah they actually do have a way to do this on I and he couldn't talk about it so much CU it's proprietary and they keep it to themselves and stuff but they do have and I was just like joking like what do you guys have like drones flying around or you like looking at the way I thought they were doing it was uh looking at using the GPS like basically to see like relative like where you are in the bunch and then just calculating drag and like just looking at your power data and stuff and they do have software that does this to look at how efficient are we sure though because there's so much that's come out with inos is [ __ ] like I've had my and on the podcast and a lot of the ex inios guys and they pull the curon back on how much [ __ ] there's going on there like they've doing the same thing that Olaf bu is doing with the two triathletes Gustaf Eden and blo felt he's making it look like there's this crazy stuff going on and then you talk to him he's like actually it's just pineapple juice we right on the bottle that a super secret hydration mix and it freaks our competitors out there definitely is so there there absolutely is a lot of that that goes on and at the end of the day a lot of it is just doing the Bas like that is the main thing is you just do the basic better than anybody else and that's one thing I learned from doing like the world tour camps there was like a box of supplements and all these like recovery toys and stuff guys never touched them they were just like super boring laying on their bed all day like never got used at all with Dan like but he also like he does look at this stuff and like for example like he talked to me about uh thermal load and how they measure that during races like I'd never heard of this like they're looking at the on the Gins they have the solar panel to like meas to for um char the Garment or whatever and they look at that to like look at your solar efficiency or like your thermo efficiency whatever during the race like they're looking at stuff like that and then he's starting to explain to me about how they're measuring the efficiency of riders in the bunch and I'm thinking like I've never even thought of this like what are you talking about with some of this stuff like so they definitely are playing with this stuff and especially I mean you look at the helmet that jumbo just came out with from Juro at the the ridiculous TT helmet it's like okay they are pushing limits like they are trying with some of this stuff did it get yeah it's gone yeah probably got ban and the the zuro one you know the sock on the neck that got ban the specialized one yeah uh so what are we missing here in this recipe to become a pro cyclist you need to have a good team of mentors uh I would say getting to Europe is very important uh getting in that pipeline is very important learn to enjoy the process because okay here's the other thing on the cover of my book there's a triangle and it says Talent hard work and opportunity and you need a combination all three of these things I would say it I think people really overestimate Talent like you would be surprised at like like I said with okay mat is not the best example of this but for example like I remember seeing him like physiologically like he wasn't really that special but he worked his ass off and made like the most out of the other two like he worked so hard made the most out of the opportunities and I I would say he was like okay more than average but not a freak talent wise you need to balance these things and for me like the overarching lesson at the end of the book was you need to design a life that you enjoy long enough that you're willing to stick around for your opportunities to come around because you have to work your ass off you do need some talent and you can't just hope that things are going to line up for you but there's a lot of luck or lack of it in bike racing as well and you need to be willing to play the game long enough for your opportunity to come around because if you bet your whole season on a couple races you have a crash at the wrong time you break a or you get a flat tire like that's gone versus getting a result there like that could cost you a result that could get you a world tour contract any need to love the life you're living in order to be willing to stick around for your opportunities to show up as well hey Roan excuse the short Interruption I love riding the bike but on account of being so busy with the podcast at the moment I'm now what's called a time crunch Rider I never thought I'd see today but I have a tool I'm using W bike to keep myself sharp and on point with specific sessions to maximize that available training time I have a w bike atam right here in the recording studio beside me and when I have an eror in between interviews I jump on it's removing all the friction points from me there's no more 10 minute setup unfolding legs banging my knees off stuff getting my hands dirty usual connection issues it just works every single time the Adam's perfect for virtual racing as well because it has crisp gear changes it has 1% accuracy and it has Max gradient capability of up to 25% if you're looking for an indoor trainer I honestly couldn't recommend this any higher I've using a w bike since 2013 honestly it's the last indoor trainer that you're ever going to need if you head on over to W bike.com now and you use code roadman 10 that's r o a d m n t n and that's going to get you 10% off your W bike yeah even small things like can really improve your longevity like making an extra 50 hundred EUR a week passively somehow online in Gig economy like I raced for a French team 50 a week your accommodation is covered so that's 50 for food your race entry is obviously covered but 50 a week is tight on food like so you actually crack because you're hungry and you don't have the the money to feed yourself properly or you're just eating very basic stuff an extra 50 EUR a week really improves your mental health and that's going to make you stick around for that opportunity to show up yeah yeah and you have to do the thing I mean absolutely right like I think about it the first like so I lasted I'm now I'm in my sixth year of being in Europe but for the first three years I was here I didn't have a car and so you're doing everything by bike so it's like you go training five six hours in the rain you come home shower it's like I got to go get groceries now and like when you live in Austria that means like backpack hauling the potatoes up the mountain in the rain after that it's like man like when I got a car that was the best like in my fourth year that was the biggest performance Advantage I ever had and it was like a cheap car that I should have been negotiating based on how much gas was in the gas tank like it was a really cheap car but to me it's like this is like my Porsche because it's like I don't have to Pedal it I stay dry I can get as much food as I want and when a Spoke breaks on my bike I can just go drive to a bike shop and fix it and then I can go training that day like that stuff AB like I wish I would have known that earlier in my career like you do I always just had the attitude like if I just work hard enough I can manage it like I I can handle all this stuff like I'm tough enough I can take it but I wish I would have I mean I I don't know what I would have done differently but yeah having like another 10 grand or something like just to make life a little bit more comfortable it makes a big difference how big is the mental components have you worked with sports psychologists is that something you would Advocate uh I I never worked with a sports psychologist for it I really relied on my mentors for that I guess um I mean I I was big on the mentors I remember like one thing I like when my first year in Europe I wrote two quotes on uh my bedroom and on my wall in my bedroom in my first year in Europe and the first one was if you run into an [ __ ] today he's an [ __ ] if you run in [ __ ] all day every day you're the [ __ ] and it was just like that was my way of reminding myself like you're in their country you need to learn you need to get along with their system that doesn't really apply to your question but that's one of the quotes the second quote was understanding that everybody quits and goes home after their first year like you go from Lance Armstrong cadel Evans all of them you see everybody that goes to Europe they go to Europe everybody gets their head kicked in the first year and then so many of them quit go home think they're quitting cycling take three to six months off and then realize actually they still want to be a pro cyclist and then they go back over and they try and for me it was like just realizing like just skip that stage and get through to it and I mean the sports psychology thing I really just remembered with Swain what I learned from Swain is just appreciate this time uh you know live with no like give it your best and yeah it's appreciate the special time to go after your dream and don't have any regrets when you do hang out your wheels after you know this idea of what's taking me from where I was to where I am isn't the same set of tools to take me from where I am to where I want to go what do you think is the missing chapter that maybe you're not equipped to write that takes the step to World Tour what's the part you've missed have you tried to deconstruct that um I got very so I got very close there was three years in my career where I actually thought I was getting a world tour contract and then it it did end up happening and you find out around Christmas time you're actually not getting a whe tour contract and that really sucks so I think I got about as close to making as you can get without making it and uh so I think I I think I've seen pretty much all the angles right up until making that contract once you're I mean I can't speak about what it's like once you're in the show like I could probably write a second if I ever made it I I could write a second book being like how to be a pro cyclist but at be a World Tour cyclist um maybe could you like refresh like I just want to make sure I'm answering your question could you ask the question again yeah I'm had a conversation not too long ago with mate Mich and I can't put my finger on the golden trade that links mate Mich to Fred Roy to darl impy to Matt hayon but they have a quality it's a quality that I don't have and I'm not sure it's a quality that other people have that haven't made it to the world tour it's you know the French it call it the junqua it's it's the X Factor and it's almost trying to articulate what is that X Factor what what is that thing that you can take the step from Continental to World Tour sure there some guys maybe are Continental that get to world tour but then they don't have it and they drop back down but I think the real stalwart World Tour writers especially your stars they all have some sort of binding quality that links them and I'm not sure what that is okay so I don't know if there's a a specific thing that links all of them but I've been able to sort of figure out what I was lacking or like one thing like I've realized in the last couple months one thing that I was really lacking with that and so uh a lot of the the guys in the world tour ended up reading my book and sent me a lot of really nice messages after and that was awesome and the thing that just about all of them said was you know I can't believe this guy didn't make it like how did you not make it like I've never heard of somebody that with like such incredible power numbers works so hard was so focused didn't quit did all this stuff and they mean it like a compliment and it you do take like that's the Wonder best compliment in the world right like from the best guys in the world to be saying that it's the greatest compliment ever but it also kind of breaks your heart because the way I'd look at it being like well how the hell did I screw this up like I had all the talent I I did everything right how did I still manage to screw this up like I must be a really big failure to mess that up and what I've realized is a big thing that hurt me in my career I'll give you like a hockey analogy was just gripping the stick too hard like I was so desperate that I have to make it because at times like I I'd have to go get like another job like I'd go work construction during the offseason sometimes because I needed money in order to fund another year in Europe and you're basically being a push broom operator on a construction site and it's horrible and you're just like I have to make it as a proc cyclist because I can't do this and people want to like romanticize this desperation thing but it's like maybe in maybe that desperation of like being so afraid that you have to make it works in other sports like Combat Sports for example where it's like eight weeks leading up to a boxing match and I'm a huge MMA fan like so like maybe it works in that but as a pro cyclist where it's like year after year living like that like for me it was I couldn't sleep at night like I couldn't relax I was so I I would overdo it like I would train so hard because I'm like I have to make it with this and I just I couldn't relax and then I'd see all these other Pros that had made it that I was trying to learn from whether it's sep animy like all these people and they've made it and they they just seemed more calm than me and I wasn't calm like I was like I have to I was just try trying to twist the throttle too hard and I thought that's what it was now that I have like this like whatever this book business thing on the side is it's given me so much more peace because it's like now I have another project where it's like I can use my brain for that and I'm just more relaxed with L I'm like wow I wish I would have had this during my career because it gives me that peace to just ex execute the training properly but not overstress it not yeah grip the stick too hard like to give a hockey term you want my amateur assessment yeah I think the piece you've missed from the conversations I've had with World thr writers you know hundreds of them on the podcast and coaches I think even neglected the sport psychology part interesting okay yeah keep going I really do even that conversation there the you know the the failure to relax even the identity you don't see yourself as a a world thr Rider even some of these guys like you know you could take a Darren rafy who's just stepped up to EF this year he's been a world t riter for five years even though he just signed his world T contract this year that's how he sees himself that's his identity you know Michael Phelps wins his seventh Gold by one 100 of a second that's not physical there's nothing physical about that performance that's an identity that's a mentality that no I don't come second I'm a winner I'm a gold medal Olympian I don't get second never there's a mentality that goes with that and I think sport psychology is super undervalued and I think it's something that I've seen a lot of the top guys putting a lot of emphasis on I that's definitely something I I would look into that more because I think like one thing I can't give myself any credit for this is just like this is just like how it was is one thing I think that kept me in the game long enough is we were talking before about like you can have all these stats in cycling like you can see your climbing times your vam your watts per kilo all this kind of stuff and I had so many people like praising me and telling me that I was going to make it and like that I could be great that like for my entire career I could not imagine a scenario where I wasn't doing the tour to France the Olympics the world tour like I was just sure I was going to get there at some point and that's what kept me in the sports so long like kept me trying because I'm just like I'm for sure I'm gonna make it like I can't quit like I'm going to make it and so I had that but I guess I was yeah I was also just afraid of like what if I don't make it like not being able to live with myself for that and so I don't know like if it maybe maybe it's like that's the fire that gets you to push so hard but I think it also Burns you a little bit like what you were saying like you just can't relax and now it's like I'm like okay if I don't make it it's like I really did give it everything I had like there's not one more thing I could have done and now I found something new that like I can be good at something else that doesn't require me to Pedal a bike it's like I actually love doing that as well so like I'll be okay if I don't make it yeah it's a weird one isn't there you get those freak talents like I got to chat with Greg lemond and spent you know so many with him which I never thought it would and just such a unique mind that even the way he never frame it as this binary making it not making it he just seen himself as a champion straight away and obviously you need evidence to back that up but I think he's seen himself as a champion long before he had ever had the evidence that he was a champion and it's there's a humbleness there's acqu confidence to it I don't know how you cultivate it but definitely he has it mate Mich has it there's another couple of guys that have chatted and you can in a very reserved humble non braggy way they just carry themselves through their conversation under demeanor in a different way to the rest of us yeah it's it's really interesting because there's definitely guys like that but I can on the other side of it I can also name a handful of like men and women that are some of the very best Cycles in the world and it's like they are so insecure and just like they they don't think they're that great at all and you're just looking at them like dude like look in the mirror like you're wiping the floor with some of the best athletes in the world and it's like they it's like what actually drives them is this insecurity of not being good enough and so I I don't know what it is because yeah you definitely get yeah Michael Phelps like my job I stack gold medals or whatever like you get that attitude but then I can think of well there's one girl that comes to mind right off the top of the head it's like this girl is like so yeah like insecure in a lot of ways and it's like she's unbelievable like you you're watching her on TV and I'm like she's so good and then you're having din with her and it's like she doesn't understand how good she is and just like how are you not seeing this right now Jack it's a phenomenal body of work it's phenomenal that you've collated and are able to articulate the lived experiences of you know hundreds and thousands of people you know that sounds like a lot of people but it's a very small number in terms of the amount of people that participate in cycling only a very tiny fraction of people that ever jump on a bike get to ever live the experiences that you've lived and you've CED and aggregated them and articulated them in a way to make that now accessible to the masses and bring them inside this world that only a few people get to experience it's it's really brilliant it's brilliant to talk to you and I'm delighted for the success of the book and I'm GNA link it below and I highly advise anyone who's listened to the podcast to pick up a copy give a copy to your local Junior writer because it's it's a great story I thank you very much there no I'm flattered to hear such kind words from you Anthony thanks for your time Jack awesome thanks Anthony so if you like this video you should definitely check out this video cuz I know you're going to love it and don't forget to subscribe to the channel

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

How do you become a professional cyclist step by step?+

Jack Burke outlines a structured progression that starts with consistently performing at amateur and development level before targeting Continental team contracts. He emphasises that non-European riders must be prepared to relocate to Europe, where racing density and team exposure are far greater than back home.

How much do Continental level cyclists earn?+

Jack Burke is direct on this point: most Continental riders lose money overall, because expenses regularly exceed whatever income the contract provides. He describes the financial reality as a net loss for the majority of riders, and says most non-European athletes quit within one or two seasons once that reality sets in.

How long does it take to make it as a pro cyclist?+

Burke spent eight years racing at Continental level, with five of those based in Europe, which is considerably longer than the typical aspiring professional lasts. He frames longevity at that tier as a specific skill in itself, requiring financial planning, resilience, and an honest assessment of progress each season.

Is crashing the biggest risk in professional cycling?+

According to Jack Burke, the crash risk in the modern peloton is now the hardest part of a professional cycling career, harder than the training volume or altitude camps. He argues the peloton has become increasingly dangerous and that managing that physical risk is something riders must factor into any long-term plan to race at the highest level.

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CHAPTERS

Key Takeaways

Expert Quotes

CLAIMS FROM THIS EPISODE

RESOURCES MENTIONED

KEY QUOTES

Jack welcome to the Roan podcast good to be on I've been a long time…

CC and check out their amazing range of Kit and experience this…

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

NEVER MISS AN EPISODE

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RELATED CONTENT

COBBLESTONE CHAOS & SARAH MEETS POGACAR | RIDER SUPPORT

WHY YOU'RE SLOW AFTER 40 AND HOW TO FIX IT | RIDER SUPPORT

F1 INSPIRED TIPS EVERY CYCLIST SHOULD KNOW | BOTTAS

TURN YOUR CYCLING PASSION INTO A PROFESSION | JACK BURKE

CHAPTERS

Key Takeaways

Expert Quotes

CLAIMS FROM THIS EPISODE

RESOURCES MENTIONED

KEY QUOTES

Jack welcome to the Roan podcast good to be on I've been a long time…

CC and check out their amazing range of Kit and experience this…

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

NEVER MISS AN EPISODE

READ THE GUIDE

RELATED EPISODES

COBBLESTONE CHAOS & SARAH MEETS POGACAR | RIDER SUPPORT

WHY CYCLING FAST MAKES YOU SLOW | RIDER SUPPORT

WHY YOU'RE SLOW AFTER 40 AND HOW TO FIX IT | RIDER SUPPORT

RELATED CONTENT

COBBLESTONE CHAOS & SARAH MEETS POGACAR | RIDER SUPPORT

WHY YOU'RE SLOW AFTER 40 AND HOW TO FIX IT | RIDER SUPPORT

F1 INSPIRED TIPS EVERY CYCLIST SHOULD KNOW | BOTTAS

TURN YOUR CYCLING PASSION INTO A PROFESSION | JACK BURKE

CHAPTERS

Key Takeaways

Expert Quotes

CLAIMS FROM THIS EPISODE

RESOURCES MENTIONED

KEY QUOTES

1.Jack welcome to the Roan podcast good to be on I've been a long time…

2.CC and check out their amazing range of Kit and experience this…

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

NEVER MISS AN EPISODE

READ THE GUIDE

RELATED EPISODES

COBBLESTONE CHAOS & SARAH MEETS POGACAR | RIDER SUPPORT

WHY CYCLING FAST MAKES YOU SLOW | RIDER SUPPORT

WHY YOU'RE SLOW AFTER 40 AND HOW TO FIX IT | RIDER SUPPORT

RELATED CONTENT

COBBLESTONE CHAOS & SARAH MEETS POGACAR | RIDER SUPPORT

WHY YOU'RE SLOW AFTER 40 AND HOW TO FIX IT | RIDER SUPPORT

F1 INSPIRED TIPS EVERY CYCLIST SHOULD KNOW | BOTTAS

TURN YOUR CYCLING PASSION INTO A PROFESSION | JACK BURKE

CHAPTERS

Key Takeaways

Expert Quotes

CLAIMS FROM THIS EPISODE

RESOURCES MENTIONED

KEY QUOTES

1.Jack welcome to the Roan podcast good to be on I've been a long time…

2.CC and check out their amazing range of Kit and experience this…

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

NEVER MISS AN EPISODE

READ THE GUIDE

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WHY YOU'RE SLOW AFTER 40 AND HOW TO FIX IT | RIDER SUPPORT

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Jack welcome to the Roan podcast good to be on I've been a long time…

CC and check out their amazing range of Kit and experience this…

Jack welcome to the Roan podcast good to be on I've been a long time…

CC and check out their amazing range of Kit and experience this…