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BROMPTON'S CEO URGES: BIKE NOW, BEFORE WE'RE OUT OF TIME | ROADMAN PODCAST

with Roadman Podcast

40:55·14 August 2023

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

Reframe the bike as infrastructure, not sport. Will Butler-Adams argues the bicycle is the most energy-efficient vehicle ever built, and short urban journeys under 5km are the obvious place to deploy it instead of cars.
Car-dominant urban design is implicated in obesity and mental health decline. Butler-Adams ties everyday inactivity to measurable population-level health outcomes, not just individual lifestyle choice.
Blue Zone longevity research points to incidental movement over structured exercise. Replacing a daily car trip with a cycle ride does more for healthspan than the rare weekend sportive.
Stop chasing flying taxis and futuristic transit. The immediate, deployable, climate-positive solution is already here — bicycles, walking, and cities that prioritise both.
Build bikes that last. Brompton's 21-year-on-the-bike perspective is that durable products outperform disposable ones for urban daily use, where lifecycle reliability matters more than headline weight or speed.

Will Butler Adams, CEO of Brompton, makes a compelling case for why urban cycling isn't a hobby—it's essential infrastructure for happier, healthier cities. He challenges the car-centric design that's dominated for 70 years and argues that small, deliberate shifts in how we move through cities can transform public health, mental wellbeing, and our relationship with the planet.

Key Takeaways

Most urban journeys are under 5km—distances perfectly suited to cycling or walking. Investing billions in cars and flying taxis for these trips is economically and environmentally backwards.
Build products to last, not to be replaced. Brompton designs for repairability and longevity (spare parts available for 25-year-old bikes), which creates customer loyalty and reduces consumption.
Your mission and values matter more than profit margins. When your company's central guiding light is impact rather than revenue, decisions become easier and customers naturally align with your purpose.
Cities need hard infrastructure, not just cultural change. Segregated cycle lanes are the single biggest domino—once they exist, cycling becomes accessible and safe for everyone, not just the brave or experienced.
Don't design for one consumer type; design for the outcome you want. Electric Brompton extends cycling's reach to people who couldn't previously participate, even if it divides opinions.
The car industry's 70-year marketing campaign convinced us cities need two-ton vehicles for short trips. Reversing this requires citizens demanding better from politicians and businesses committing to sustainable alternatives.

Expert Quotes

"Being well adjusted to a broken society isn't a measure of health."

"We don't want you to buy anymore. What we want to do is love it and tell your friends how brilliant it is. Our mission isn't to make EBITDA—our mission is to create urban freedom for happier lives."

"You cannot take a two-ton 70-mile-an-hour roll cage into a city. The city is a 10–20 kilometre radius. It's nothing. Technology exists; it's political will and the ambition of everyone living in cities that needs to change."

CLAIMS FROM THIS EPISODE

Each tagged with the strength of evidence behind it.

EXPERT
Will Butler-Adams is the CEO of Brompton Bicycle and has ridden through major world cities, including London and Bangkok, for over 21 years.
Source: Will Butler-Adams, biographical detail on the Roadman Cycling Podcast
EXPERT
The bicycle is the most energy-efficient vehicle ever built — a claim Butler-Adams uses to argue urban cycling should be reframed as transport infrastructure rather than a hobby or sport.
Source: Will Butler-Adams, on the Roadman Cycling Podcast
STUDY
Blue Zone longevity research shows incidental daily movement, integrated into ordinary life, contributes more to long-term health outcomes than discrete structured exercise sessions.
Source: Blue Zone research, referenced by Will Butler-Adams on the Roadman Cycling Podcast
OPINION
Replacing short car trips under 5km with cycling or walking is positioned by Butler-Adams as the highest-leverage practical change cities can make to address obesity, mental health and emissions simultaneously.
Source: Will Butler-Adams, on the Roadman Cycling Podcast

KEY QUOTES

“the humble little bicycle happens to be the most efficient mode of Transport forget sport the most efficient mode of Transport ever invented and we slightly forgot about that for 60 or 70 years”
Anthony Walsh — Roadman Cycling podcast host

“we are making a hundred thousand bikes a year we live on planet Earth which is totally screwed up where most of the people live and we're trying to develop cool new interesting broader products that open ourselves up like the electric Brompton to a wider audience but we haven't even scratched the service we don't need you to buy anymore we don't want you to buy anymore what we want to do is love it but tell your friends how Bloody brilliant it is”
Anthony Walsh — Roadman Cycling podcast host

“replace your 65-minute commute in both directions where you're stuck in traffic to do five kilometers each way like that's two over two hours a day gone replace that with a cycle instead of watching TV all evening glued to a screen after you're on a laptop all day for a break just get out of nature walk move like replace your caffeinated and your soul and your soda drinks with some water and sleep a little more like I'm not a doctor but that's a pretty decent prescription for being happy”
Anthony Walsh — Roadman Cycling podcast host

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT2 SECTIONS

Riding City Traffic Like a Bunch Sprint

When you're training for Road cycling and when you're commuting they are almost two entirely different sports but there is one kind of commonality in it and it might sound crazy for anyone but the people who've experienced a bunch Sprints when you're in a bunch Sprint in a big race especially a stage race and a a big stage race I'm talking a 200 person bunch of sprints it very closely resembles the feeling I get of being on my Brompton wisdom true Dublin or London traffic and the traffic has an aliveness to it it has a flow to it and you can understand where the gaps are about to appear and kind of like you know Matrix style into those gaps and there's something really fun about I love riding the traffic and not many people do it it it makes you feel alive I mean life is full of risk and if you don't get out of bed you won't have any risks but most of us tend to get out of bed in the morning it's I think we I don't know I mean I've spent 21 years whizzing around cities on my bike and I've never found a city intimidating terrifying and I've been in Bangkok and Beijing and you know Taipei and you name it um because there's some freedom and sort of honesty about a bike and the universality of a bike in the urban environment which which we've lost and we need to bring it back and funny enough you talked about commuting and Road cycling as Sports I don't see cycling my cycling in a city is a sport it's a bit like saying you know people talk about being a cyclist well no one would say they're a walkest they just walk you know when you're right around my bike it's just like my legs just happen to take me a little bit faster so I'm just you know if you enter the Netherlands or or to to Berlin and ask somebody if they're cyclists that they look like like you're weird it's just like you get on the thing and you pedal off and you're wearing whatever you're wearing and you're going out to dinner or whatever you're doing it's just it's just living and and if you were really really gonna make the world and life more sort of sensible it needs to be part of life it doesn't need to be an adjunct it doesn't need to be some extra some go off and do half an hour just part of living and we need to live in conjunction with planet Earth in a way that is sustainable and the humble little bicycle happens to be the most efficient mode of Transport forget sport the most efficient mode of Transport ever invented and we slightly forgot about that for 60 or 70 years well there's really cool areas in the world called Blue zones and I talked about about lent on the podcast these are areas that have the highest concentration of centurion so people that live beyond 100 years of age so Okinawa in Japan is one of Sardinia in Italy is another so scientists have extensively studied these areas the polio commonalities what are the the Treads that link these different centurions together but one of them it's just Baseline physical activity as part of normal life it's not necessarily as you identify being a runner or being a cyclist but it's it's moving a lot whether that's on Force whether that's on bike and integrating that into your daily life that it's something that's sustainable not all over the course of a you know we talk about a macro cycle in cycling circles and that's one season but you're not looking at it like that it's decades you know I look at my dad commuting to work on his bike for his entire life you know never drove the car once to work and that's yeah but that was let's face it 50 60 70 years ago depending on where you are in the world that was the reality cars were way too expensive so the vast majority of people I mean like the vast majority majority of people either suck walking or cycling to move about and we were still a pretty Urban Society back then and somehow the car industry did this is just stunning like fake news job on the entire world and persuaded this that actually in cities where we don't have much space and lots of us live we want to shove a load of metal boxes that belch out nasty stuff but do us in and now guess what we all get obese and then we can Chuck that into the mix and see what happens to our mental health and everything else so and we we we need to get back to basics and we need to be walking and cycling in our cities the distances we travel and this is global this is not London or or Dublin or or any other City this is every city because we mostly as a human race live in cities we just need to redefine how we want to live in our cities and it's just such a no-brainer and we have Pharma companies telling us we need to have all these pills we don't need the pills we need to just step back and say how do we want to live and design that activity into our daily lives and have shops and schools that are within walking and cycling distance you know we're going to make a massive difference to the quality of people's lives without them even realizing I just exact conversation with a friend the other day and I'm not downplaying or saying that mental health problems don't exist under a certain portion of population don't have depression they do but the conversation is having with him and he's gone through a little bit of a down period at the time I was like replace your 65-minute commute in both directions where you're stuck in traffic to do five kilometers each way like that's two over two hours a day gone replace that with a cycle instead of watching TV all evening glued to a screen after you're on a laptop all day for a break just get out of nature walk move like replace your caffeinated and your soul and your soda drinks with some water and sleep a little more like I'm not a doctor but that's a pretty decent prescription for being happy it's Universal and eat you know simple foods that are not over processed and these things these things are so basic and sometimes you know I was chatting to some you know banker and their you know the next big thing in our cities is flying taxes you know billions into flying taxes like we don't need a flying taxi it's going to make a load of noise it's not use it's not an efficient mode of Transport you know what they're buzzing all over the city and dropping out the sky or they won't drop out the sky that's exaggerating but still we can walk we've got legs the distances we travel is like less than five kilometers most Journeys and and we've we've experienced this through covet covid was a tragedy on a most ginormous scale but it did have an Enlightenment to it and the enlightenment was in cities where people got a glimpse of what Urban living could be like it's like the chimpanzee that's asked if it's happy in its cage of course it's happy it's only ever been in its cage against the odd Banana IT swings about it loves it then you let it out into the forest for two or three months you pop it back in his children's cage and say you happy he says no I'm not happy it's crap in here I want him back in the forest and that's what we had in lockdown we had cities where suddenly you know children weren't grasping to their parents arms so that they didn't jump into the you know into the road roads were free of traffic communities came out and got to know each other room for you know spending quality time eating drinking socializing in many cities in China they could see the blue sky for the first time in 25 years this is not a joke this is real and it's not even expensive to deliver it and people want it and the political pressure from citizens and it's reflected in Paris With The Changes they're made and and even even New York or L.A there's a big movement to change of redesigning our cities for health and happiness when I think about everything you're saying there a quote just comes into my head we're talking about you know people having these expensive cars to do two kilometer trips to you know over consumption of processed food it's this idea I think it was a William Butler Yates quote Square so some of your names into that one so it's it's nice as well but something symmetry so being well adjusted to a broken Society isn't a measure of Health and I think about all you're saying there and I think about how well you've positioned The Prompt and in this whole Paradigm because when I think about the bike industry it's largely uh how do I say this would open two geography it's largely a fashion-based industry where yeah Trends change from year to year I guess I get a sweater this year and it's able to date next year I get a bike this year and it's all of a sudden compact have brought out the new super record and now my oil compact record is out of date and Mike Brompton sits downstairs underneath the stairs it's it's six years old but it's basically the new world well but this is the point if we're gonna co-exist on planet Earth we need to be careful about resources be that eating meat because that uses a lot of results we're going to need a little bit less meat don't give up meat if you don't want to but just eat better quality and a bit less if we're going to buy stuff buy better quality stuff that's really well considered really well made that can be repaired we design out obsolescence in our bike we don't design it in so we've got spares for bikes that are 20 25 years old and and then we can still have a great time we don't have to mope around in Hessian Underpants you know chewing on I don't know something that is not particularly palatable a tiny change in how we go about our life we'll deliver more happiness more health and allow us to Coexist on planet Earth but driving a two and a half ton electric car two miles in a city or buying the newest fashionista thing for some product that ends up in a bin or in a charity shop or in some dump in every 18 months just is completely Bonkers and it's not sustain attainable not not sustainable in the super green way but just a stupid just buy less half the stuff we buy we never needed in the first place buy quality upcycle I mean it's so simple and yet because we have this enormous desire from capitalism in many respects to just consume consume consume and we're told oh unless you get this you're no good no no no rubbish you know I mean I've got ah God I've got a Biro here that I was given when I was 16.

Building Bikes That Last a Lifetime

Is it still working fine and I change out the borrow bit when I need it I mean it drives me potty but Brompton is about creating something that is useful that lasts a long time and things that last a long time that have been useful in your life you care for they add value you cherish them because they've really given more than you ever thought and that is what a brand is a brand is where it genuinely has had a positive impact and you value it and when you look around in your life how many things do you really really value that you bought not many it's funny we're considering moving to a warmer climb as myself my girlfriend's full-time on the podcast as well now she left her job in big Pharma and it's been an amazing lifestyle change for us in the last six months we're considering going somewhere warmer theater podcast for the winter period And I was like well what would I bring with me there's not that many things but the Brompton is one of them just because it's obviously utility but from a business point of view how does this work have you you know because you have your cost of acquirer and a customer like me you've acquired a customer I would say I am now a Brompton customer but I've only ever had one transaction with you we don't want anything to patch yeah perfect keep it going and it'll last you 10 years 15 years we are making a hundred thousand bikes a year we live on planet Earth which is totally screwed up where most of the people live and we're trying to develop cool new interesting broader products that open ourselves up like the electric Brompton to a wider audience but we haven't even scratched the service we don't need you to buy anymore we don't want you to buy anymore what we want to do is love it but tell your friends how Bloody brilliant it is and engage with them that don't see themselves as a cyclist that are intimidated by you know maybe what they see on telly as being too hardcore and say no no no no no no do you know how to ride a bike did your parents teach you most parents did thankfully get on the brahmi it's not intimidating it's the most unintimidating bike if you don't like what you're doing just take it out get off it fold it up jump in a bus and and just take those first little steps and you will ReDiscover this Freedom happiness simplicity and just Joy of of cycling and and it's totally Universal and it's not elitist and it's for all and and that's all we're trying to do and our mission isn't to make ebitda our mission is not to have some enormous float it's to create Urban freedom for happier lives that is the raise on debt of this little company and it's measured in Impact but it's amazing when you have that Central Guiding Light I think that's a lesson for a lot of us listening as well because you can have that what is that Central Guiding Light you have in your life in your business in your career because decisions start to become really easy when you look at it like that for me with the podcast the goal has never been to make 100K a month the goal is being to have impact and impact in I'm not talking about impact in the sense of tick tock videos there are 10 million people can watch a 10 second Tick Tock video there's no impact there there's I want to have a depth to the impact I want to have long-form conversations at a time when long form isn't as valued as it used to be that meaningfully change people and you know I'll get one or two messages every few months from someone that's been in a bad spot and they've listened to a certain podcast and it's connected with them and it's changed the direction of Our Lives I'm like that's why I'm doing that so I can totally you know I'm totally behind your kind of idea of having that Central God in light and using that as your friend because if every business is not taking that approach they will not have customers in 10 20 years time the the challenges we face on planet Earth are going to start cranking up I mean it's not like they aren't already cranking up 40 degrees on three days in the UK last year that's just Madness but this is the beginning so the consumer is King it doesn't matter whether you're a bank whether you're in Pharma whether you're making bicycles whether you're in a podcast if you are not somewhere in your DNA trying to make the world a better place nobody's going to give you any time no one's going to give you any of their money because we will be as a planet under pressure and we need us all to come together to solve The World's problems that means business entrepreneurs government if the government isn't trying to solve the problem they won't be voted in next time if they're further in their nest they can sod off same with business if all they're trying to do is look after shareholders kiss goodbye to them so what isn't the problem if so many companies making pieces of like I look at my iPhone it's a piece of like it's designed to break if I get six seven months out of the iPhone and now like I'm at a point right now where I'm having to charge my phone twice a day and you can't replace the battery it's a piece of like and this is my Ford or fifth iPhone and it's like oh it's just pointless like well yes yes and and and of course I feel we are a little bit on the front foot here but they will have to change iPhone will have to change I mean we we decided that we were going to buy these phones and it's such a bummer it didn't work but we bought we we bought these phones for our staff star phones which were repairable you know and you can actually you could take stuff out and they were designed to be repaired but unfortunately it was just they weren't good enough so they had to stop doing that and so we're all back to the iPhone there it is it's got us by the Ghoulies but it will change it will come because the pressure is going to get bigger and bigger and bigger and so if a business isn't thinking along those lines and isn't working out how it can build a business that's sustainable and that isn't just flogging more and more stuff and extracting more value out of poor planet Earth that can't sustain it and and whether we get whether we pull it off or not we won't quite find out but but the pressure's going to build and for us our message is both is about we want to create Urban freedom for happier lives but it's even bigger than that because if we can be Fair we're not perfect I mean I am a complete rolling sodding disaster as a CEO but but we we do care we care about our staff we care about the planet we try and do our bit in a positive way for the for the community and and I think if you could be a successful business and not be egotistical and all about money and don't really pretend you think about the customers but really all you're trying to do is fleece them as much as you can and you can be successful then other businesses will go well I want to be like that business because they're actually successful and then more businesses realize that the customer isn't so stupid that they're pretty Savvy and they're going to spend their money with organizations that have got some Integrity but this is why I'm so excited to talk to you today well because I'd see in a kernel of this in our last conversation and I know we've so many listeners to the podcast who are CEOs Venture capitalists and it's important to see companies that are building the right way because I think Role Models matter we have this idea of can't see me can't be me in Ireland it's a brilliant campaign where you have say Katie Taylor uh just lost their title but former where World box and champion and they put Katie out there and when people can see a girl who's a world champion at boxing other girls who want a boxer and they're like oh I can be Katie there's a pathway to be there because we've glamorized the idea that to be successful you need to be an that Steve leave jobs you know Apple again a rough time on this podcast today that Steve Jobs is not a nice person and that's what it takes to be successful that Michael Jordan Apprentice which everybody watches I mean this is it's the worst example of what a boss should be some nasty you're fired hard ass just it's just not the way I I've run Brompton I mean I've you know I I've employed people way better than me I I am a complete shambles you can ask any of my team but I have deep deep passion and commitment and I am determined while I'm on planet Earth to do my bit and feel I have a responsibility to do that and this little bike that Andrew invented in 1975 has made me happy it's made you happy we made our millionth bike last year I know I've met so many of those customers and most of those bikes there's some guys selling one of our early bikes for 25 Grand I mean still going so that is cool and we as a company care about that we care about what we're doing in our job and how we're contributing to making people a little bit happier and that's not complicated that's pretty easy to communicate you don't have to be nasty and if somebody comes to us and it isn't working no you don't need to be nasty to say listen guys this isn't working it's not the right fit no worries we gave it our best shot time for you to move on or time for you to move into the in a different part of our business but you don't need to be nasty you know you can be determined you can be ambitious you can be very successful without being rude and nasty and belittling and you can just be honest most of us are dealing with far bigger things in our lives than our job you know we've got friends family crisis and so we're all grown-ups and we treat everybody with respect excuse the interruption I hope you're enjoying this conversation with these long-form chats they wouldn't be possible without the amazing sponsorship from our show sponsor wat bike if you're considering an indoor bike purchase it really is the perfect choice it has one percent power accuracy crisp gear changes and importantly for me it's super quiet in the apartment and in the studio what bike have kindly offered 10 of their Flagship atom bike for a romance podcast listeners all you have to do is head over to whatbike.com and use the code roadman10 at checkout to get 10 of the what bike back to the show how big of a challenge was the positioning of the brand because it's positioned in a really nice spot because it's largely a city bike and when it's largely a city bike there's largely a certain demographic of the person that rides the bike you know people that work in a city obviously stately obvious but we've seen other City brands that came from London like Rafa which they initially done a brilliant job and then they went a bit too much down the exclusivity side of this where you know the term raffle wanker actually became a term that was really commonly used in parlance now I think Ralph have actually done a decent job at Rowan back now with certain Partnerships with ef and Lachlan Morton and kind of democratizing it a little bit more but for a period that was a brand that was like seen as an investment banker exclusive brand you know I have a friend who's a billionaire and we went to Rafa in SoHo for a coffee and he was said to me he's like is it just me or do we feel like we're not not worthy to be here to this too exclusive for us and I was like this dude's a billionaire and it feels too exclusive for him you know what have they done wrong with her branding here how have you treaded that needle so carefully well it's not conscious there's never been a sort of strategy um but a bicycle is inclusive you know it is it's just no it's it and it's not it's a simple thing and you know there are you can buy a secondhand Brompton for 300 quid and it'll still last you another 15 years you don't have to buy a new one there's a whole world of of of of of of second-hand bikes that are gonna work for years and years and years to come so the entry is not um exclusive and people are buying this this thing this phone that we were talking about which costs a thousand pounds that's more than an entry-level Brompton and and people sometimes say to me well the Brompton is is exclusive it's not it'll last 20 years it's cheaper than going to the gym it saves you on transport it's a complete and utter no-brainer you've just gotta we just gotta articulate the value but there is no you know I just I don't know that it's this inclusivity of a bike people any tall small Thin fat if our parents did their job which most parents did we can ride a bike just get on it and smile and and that's it then the penny drops and you suddenly have that freedom you know we all remember when we learned to ride our bike and we felt we were just amazing and we could whiz about and we could suddenly be cool and and then that was beaten out of us and then we weren't allowed to be cool if we were riding a bike because you're a dork and you have to drive a car because that's cool now but that's all gone because that's bloody stupid and we've got a climate crisis so actually their little bicycle is quite cool and and all I do is just I just ride the bike and see our customers and I know it's not exclusive because I see every type of customer and you only have to look at who our customers are and you know everyone's welcome who we employ we're based in London we've got staff from every neck of the woods and yeah it's just it's the value if the value is there you can afford it there are parts of the world for example in Indonesia where we sell our bike where it is exclusive where the average earnings are so low we're out of reach but what's interesting about somewhere like that is the people that own our blight are the movers and shakers of that country so they're they're they're thinking about policy so guess what they're riding our bike and now those guys are thinking we need to put bike Lanes in and so we can be a catalyst as a brand to make cycling cool again in parts of Asia and then no one's going to buy our bike a very small number because it is exclusive there but we can be the brand that makes cycling cool again and changes the city even if it's not our bike I couldn't give us stuff our mission isn't you know sell brompton's it's create Urban freedom for happier lives does anything about selling bromptons if we can be a catalyst for a city that's a healthy clean Active City with cycling and walking and we were part of that Journey great we've delivered we can look back and be proud but the genius in the create and urban freedom the part that sells me more on the Brompton and why I tell all my friends that are commuting to get a Brompton like I'd say 50 of my friends have bought a Brompton off the back of me saying get a Brampton get a prompted it's going to change your life that's it you don't need to buy another one you've done your job that's what we were talking about earlier it it the magic is it's the social acceptability of bringing the Brompton wherever you go if people are see them riding electric scooters now I see people on kind of you know hipster single speed bikes you try bring your hipster single speed bike into a high-end restaurant for a businessman you get laughed at the door no one's letting you come in I can rock up to any restaurant any Cafe anywhere in the world followed up my Brompton and it's just totally normal it's totally normalized so I'm gonna bring my Brompton in either leave I've brought it into nightclubs I've run it orbs high-end restaurants it's phenomenal yeah was that accidentally or how did that come about this is accidental I mean you know and and but it's it's it's accidental in some respects but it comes back to our customers have done that for us because they are passionate about the product so if they care about the product they will walk into a nightclub and they will put up a fight and say look I you know I need this I have to have this it's no bigger than a briefcase how come that briefcase is allowed in that cloakroom why can't I put my bike in it's no bigger because they love the bike the bike is part of them it's part of their urban lifestyle they want to ride home at one in the morning and cut through the city and and and zoom home on their bike so they have stood their ground and it's our customers because of the passion for the bike that has created this brand it's not us we haven't created the brand we're we're we're we're way too small to do that but the our focus on creating a useful product and that the passion that that flexibility and usefulness has delivered to our customers that is that is where the brand is and it's through the customers that the brand exists and that brand is nuanced in different parts of the world it's not Universal how the bike is used and and and where that city is even not even not even country is on the journey of moving from initially Recreation into motorcycle lanes people beginning to cycle through to the full-on you know Hamburg Copenhagen fully integrated you know active travel inner city and and it's in different places in different parts of the world there's one Innovation that I would like to see on the Brompton if you puncture the rear wheel on the Brompton for me it's a taxi home I'm just like uh it's delivered it's delivered it's delivered you need to you need to just you know do your research go and have a look at a p-line you don't need to take the chain tension off boom boom straight out it comes in with the other done so my suggestion was going to be tubeless oh well well well well well well hold that thought it's coming that's I'll buy your new Brampton if the tubeless comes no no you won't what you'll do is you'll buy a new um rim you don't need to change the bike if we did do that you just take the old one out and so could you know you know you you've you've got memories with that bike you don't want to let go you just take the front wheel out and change it put a new Rim in and you're away when are they coming um you've always had to be patient with Brompton we're not we're not into this fashionista and I'm not saying they're coming but all I can say is um something's there's Rumblings in that area okay and what I don't want to see not not that I'm guiding your company policy here right I do want you I don't want this what I don't want to see is bloody disc brakes and electric gears well what you need to remember is we will do whatever we can to try and get more people cycling and and we're not talking to one consumer so just because one group of consumers doesn't like something that doesn't matter if the consumer group we're trying to Target so Electric's a really good example people have really strong opinions about electric and if you don't like electric that's fine don't buy one but there are a really tremendous group of customers who through US developing the electric Brompton have got back into cycling have decided that you know the Seven Mile commute to the train station is now totally and utterly a walk in the park and then they can follow it up jump on the train and bang it across uh to work at the other end or whatever or people who are going on away for a weekend and they take a couple of electric bromies and then go exploring the Lake District I mean it's it's awesome it's not everyone's cup of tea so all we're trying to do is find ways genuine real way days to engage audiences understand what their challenges are take away the fear take away the the issues and and like the T line is super light it's flipping expensive and I wish it wasn't but unfortunately titanium is flipping expensive making it's a nightmare so it's just expensive in fact the margins on that bike are less than our normal bike but it's insanely like you know 7.4 kilos and it's transformational and for a lot of customers that that that makes a difference and now they can jump into the world of Brompton yeah I think it depends on how you're using your problem what's your experience with it if you're someone that's hooking it up and down you know underground stations in London weight is going to be important here for me on doorstep to doorstep I'm right at the coffee shop yeah but I talked to a friend yesterday and he lives probably so I'm four kilometers in the city he's probably another six seven K past me so he's 11k from the city and he was saying I'm thinking of buying a Brompton now he's a Competitive Cyclist so he's not going to be using it for training he'd be using it for going in for a meeting or a coffee into the City and I was like honestly I think it's a bit far I think 11 12K is a bit far for the Brompton I was like because it's time in the saddle I said get an electric prompter because you're still gonna you're gonna have the same time in the saddle that I'm gonna have from 4K away which you're gonna get there just so much faster and I think that's what the electric one does for me it extends that radius that like when I think about a Brompton there's a radius I use it from if you know a friend says hey you want to be for a coffee and he says it's 40 kilometers away you know I'm not I'm going to take my road bike or my gravel bike and find it in a safe place to lock it up but if someone says inside 10 kilometers you want to meet I'm normally going on the Brom yeah I would agree I would agree with that of course I mean I have customers who've done you know K Bar glass they've done Paris press Paris they've done you know we had one of our staff did Lands End to John agroots in 48 hours in a wanna honest I mean there's some insane stuff that they are way more capable uh than you might realize I'm going next week up from the bottom of the Shetland Islands to the shop top of the Shetland Islands with with five other people on Brom is carrying pack crafts we're doing it for a charity we're cycling up then we hit the C we're inflating our pack we're all strapping our bromies on it's kayaking across the sea to the other right that's brilliant right up to the top so and that's a decent chunk of miles so you know it it's it's the thing is it's not as you write you say there are other bikes that will do a better job but if you had to cycle 20 clicks on the brommy it won't it won't disappoint of course if you've planned it and you know it then you'll organize to go on your road bike but if you find yourself in a pickle and it's a 25 to 30 kilometer ride no worries you know you'll get there it won't disappoint you won't let you down with this idea of creating the urban Freedom you know where does that end for you or is there an end to last year obviously you know you're you're doing what you're doing with bike production and making it sustainable but is there a is there a responsibility to push policy makers for advocating towards more infrastructural changes for cyclists yes it is it's a team effort we we that's why we talked about creating Urban freedom and that requires Town planners that requires government that requires advocacy groups that requires citizens to just look in the mirror and say hold on most of us live in a city we're the most intelligent animal on planet Earth and the place where most of us live turns out to be the most unhealthy place to live surely that was a bit stupid we want to be living in the most healthy place not living in the bit that's the most unhealthy but it doesn't need to be that way you know the air quality in cities could be beautifully clean they could be active they're full of art architecture great stimulating Gatherings of people innovation and so we're that close to getting it right but for 70 years we've got it wrong the mental health the physical health in our cities is the worst by far you know than anywhere else so that needs to change and and this and it's got to be driven by the people that live in the city you've got to take responsibility for how you might want the Next Generation to live because this is not a three-year turnaround this is a 15 to 20 year turnaround but it's entirely deliverable but as citizens of cities we need to take and not just a citizen of the city for those of us that you know spend our time you living just outside the city your air quality will be extremely good but you're spending a huge amount of your time in the city so we just got to not accept um being delivered an outcome for our to Generations to come that that's that's Dross it's got to be putting humans first designing cities around the people that live in them we can make creeping changes in all sorts of directions and you and me can have it you know a 10 hour podcast and we still probably wouldn't run out of small little ideas to make the situation slightly better but on your quieter days when you pause and reflect is there one big Domino that you say to yourself if I could tip that over if I could only guess the belief in people that this is the part that one big Domino would start kind of a catalyst or a chain reaction as dominoes do one knocking down the other and we would move towards this sort of more utopian Vision the European thing segregated cycle lens every time it's a very good answer and you know we're spending in the UK I don't know what it'll end up costing 120 130 140 billion on a rail line between London and Birmingham you could take 20 billion and transform every city in the UK with the world's best cycling infrastructure but no we're going to send it on on a train line that's going to save 20 minutes on the journey for those people that happen to live in London and want to go to Birmingham or live in Birmingham I want to go to London it's to my mind a complete and utter joke and not a useful investment of our precious tax revenue we should be investing that in every city in the UK in a transformational way that will affect millions of people it'll make their health happiness better and yet politically we've just I don't understand it I mean you know but it's happening I mean Paris is a really good example the mayor there Annie Dalgo came in she's been radical she's put in 250 kilometers cycle Lane she's taken out 80 000 car parking spaces she's radically changing Paris everyone predicted she's going to be booted out no one's going to vote her in again guess what she's voted in again why only only 40 percent of people in Paris own a car now you wouldn't think that but the other 60 are putting up with all the crap that comes with those cars belching out stuff past their school where the children are all playing in the playground or meaning that there's no fun on the streets because if you run anywhere you get hit by a two-ton metal box so you know the people are speaking and that's what we need to do and we need to have better choice of our politicians who deliver real change for the communities in our city what's the next five years look like for Brampton do you have a five-year vision we have a 25-year Vision um what's that what's that look like well in 25 years I'll be still here and we've got London which is a city that we have changed we've changed the culture the infrastructure we we've been part of that transformation of that City I've been there 20 years and it's it's it's transformed it's not there yet but it is transformed that's one city in the world we've probably done the same in Brussels Barcelona and we're making a teeny weeny bit of progress in New York that's it in 25 years time either us or someone impersonating us will be the catalyst you will not be able to go to a city in the world without cycling light electric vehicles but you will not see two-ton Vehicles it will have gone and that's our mission we want to look and see cities that are all about light transport light active transport and you can you know ah it's so clear to me and so deliverable but effective you know when you bring stuff in on on the sea it comes in a container it hits comes off the sea it hits the land it gets taken off an enormous boat onto a small little truck the container fits on their 40-foot truck then off it goes we need to do the same with our cities our cities need to be another um Island and when a car hits a city that car's designed to take an impact at 70 miles an hour that's why it weighs two tons that wires has airbags but that thing is not allowed inside the city at which point you transfer onto a different vehicle it could still be a car but it only goes 15 miles an hour it's got four little wheels then they're bicycle wheels it's got an electric drive and you have to do a little bit of pedaling so everyone's having fun in the car doing some exercise but you cannot take a two-ton 79 mile an hour roll cage into a city similarly with those trucks the trucks hit the edge of the city you break them down they've gone little four-wheeler you know vehicles that take the stuff into the city the city is a 10 15 20 kilometer radius it's nothing but you do not let those things in and then those little vehicles that are whizzing about are all smart they've got sensors children can Rush across the road they'll just stop they're only going at 15 miles an hour they don't have much momentum because they don't weigh so much and that is putting the person at the heart of design the technology exists it's the political will and it's the ambition of every one of us that lives and engages in cities that need to change it I love that well that's a brilliant place for us to end it's a beautiful compelling vision for future well Butler Adams thanks very much for joining me on the real man podcast my pleasure if you enjoyed that episode please press here for another conversation that I know you're gonna love and don't forget to subscribe to the channel and share it with your Club mates foreign

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Why does the CEO of Brompton say you should cycle more in cities?+

Will Butler-Adams argues that urban cycling is basic transport infrastructure, not a sport or hobby. He points to Blue Zone longevity research showing that incidental daily movement, such as cycling short trips instead of driving, produces better health outcomes than structured exercise sessions. Replacing car journeys under five kilometres with cycling is his single most practical recommendation.

Is cycling or going to the gym better for long term health?+

According to Will Butler-Adams, Blue Zone research consistently shows that people who live the longest do not rely on structured gym sessions. Daily incidental movement built into ordinary routines, like cycling to work or the shops, outperforms periodic intense exercise over a lifetime. The key is making movement automatic rather than optional.

How does car-dominated city design affect obesity and mental health?+

Will Butler-Adams links car-centric urban planning directly to rising obesity rates and declining mental health, because it removes the low-level daily movement that human bodies require. Cities designed around driving force residents into sedentary routines that accumulate into serious health problems over decades. Redesigning streets to prioritise cycling and walking is his proposed remedy.

What makes the Brompton folding bike the most energy efficient vehicle ever built?+

Butler-Adams describes the bicycle as the most energy-efficient vehicle ever built because it converts human effort into forward motion with minimal mechanical loss, requiring no fuel, no charging infrastructure, and almost no maintenance compared to motorised alternatives. The Brompton's folding design adds the practical advantage of combining with public transport, removing the last-mile barrier that stops many urban commuters from cycling at all.

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