1.Welcome and Alex Dowsett intro

On today's Roadman podcast, we have the one and only, Mr. Alex Dowsis. Let's cue that intro! The big question is this. How do we use cycling as a tool to improve our health, our happiness and our longevity? That is the question and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Anthony Walsh and welcome to the Roadman podcast. Welcome back to another roadman cycling podcast. I'm really excited about today's interview. As I'd imagine all user, if you're cycling fans, we have one of the fastest men against the clock over the last decade. Mr. Alex Dauser, he's held the world, our record, and then he's gone back at it again. He's won your Natalia stage, his national championships, He's just been a staple in the world horror since he burst onto the scene. I'm super excited to chat to him about all things cycling about his YouTube channel, the Ties Club, life after cycling and much more. Before I dive into the podcast, let me just give you a shout out to the beer phones. Over on patreon.com forward slash Anthony underscore Welsh. That's where you can buy me the price of a beer once a month and I can crack that beer on the next podcast. appreciate everyone that bought a beer over on the beer phone and if you haven't what are you waiting for? Head on over. Okay I've pushed it off long enough this is a really fun interview with a top guy it's Mr. Alex Dowsett. Thank you thanks very much for having me. Alex how are you? I'm good I'm good I'm just getting over a real poorly timed bout of sickness which is not Covid so everyone kind of relaxes when it's oh you've just got a cold. You just got the flu. Yeah yeah yeah. Which is kind of throwing a spanner in my works to my plans to have a very big January. Otherwise otherwise I'm good. I always equate that Covid like oh you don't have Covid it's cold. I've got pneumonia it's like you have a crash you absolutely stack it open. Someone I'm asking you, we're in your helmet. And I was like, yeah, I have two broken legs. I'm a tough dog. Yeah. Yeah, it's always, I sometimes think in bike racing, it's being ill is tough because you can't see it. Like you're just saying to the team doctors or your managers, like, I'm unwell. And they're like, oh, OK. And the line is like, oh, you have to rest. Sometimes, I had a Mark, Alexandra Demaki and I pulled out of the jiro last year at the same time, me with an illness in Demaki with, well, he really smashed himself to pieces in a crash. And he left a hero and I was just like, oh, yeah, Alex got sick. And it's just, yeah, kind of. It's like that with the recovery because we were talking our fair about recovery from COVID and, you know, I'm going to show him probably three weeks since I've had it now and I'm absolutely creeping. But in a lot of ways you prefer to have a broken collarbone because at least you can see the progress week on week Where you just have this frustrating. Oh my god. My heart rates are in my power. What the focus going on here? Yeah, exactly. It's like just with this cold awake up. I'm like am I okay? No, okay. We'll wait another day then It's just yeah repeat times kind of the 10 11 days now Talk to me about your YouTube channel. What was the inspiration behind Staratna because it's absolutely pot. Yes, it's good. Well, I really enjoy it. I mean, I guess it came together because of Shanao and I. I've always, I guess I've liked playing around with cameras, always had a GoPro, always kind of been fascinated with popping a GoPro on the bike in different places, trying to get that sensation of speed and trying to work out how to eradicate the wind noise and get the sound of the bike rather than the wind, just bits and pieces and then Chanel, my better half comes from marketing background and it was kind of like, well, let's do something with this. I guess we spotted a bit of a gap in the market. There's no pro cyclists doing YouTube. Oh, one other, a guy called Willie Smith, who I was teammates with at Kattush. That's exactly what I'm really on the pod, really. Ah, yeah, real cool guy. I'm very good. Very good YouTube channel. So it's just the two of us. And yeah, we just kind of, as I saw, just saw a gap in the market, I guess. I kind of just podcasts, I know disrespect, but podcast got saturated pretty quickly. It was kind of like everyone seemed to be firing up podcast and some would slightly lot of these things. You can fire it up and having a name or following gets you a quick following quite quickly or a small, a small following that perhaps someone else without the sort of the pro cyclist name tag could, would have to work sort of churn for a fair few podcasts or videos to get to. So we kind of have, we have that kickstart, but then I think YouTube and I'd imagine the podcast world is pretty, pretty fickle if your content's pretty crap or you're not consistent, then it won't grow. Yeah, I think this is so much choice out there. And you're also not just complete. I think this is with the podcast, like you're not just competing with order, so I can podcast, you're competing with every other podcast, but I'm also competing with it just for attention with Netflix, with your YouTube channel, with fucking dope sick on Disney Plus. Like there's so many other things someone could be doing right now, rather than listening to us talk, show you about cycling on a podcast.

2.Starting a Cycling Podcast

Yeah, I mean, I've, I've, a podcast, I speak like YouTube, I like YouTube, I follow a lot of the car, the car stuff podcasts. It's never something I really got into. I was amazed at the popularity of them and I just, yeah, I was like, okay, that's a big thing, but it's already, it's already common did by a bunch of other pro cyclists. I've seen a great week today, someone saying the real heroes for the pandemic are those who didn't start a podcast. Yeah, as now, I stick with my age here, but I enjoy it. I think it's good fun and we've got a really nice following, really supportive, positive following and it seems to steadily be growing and that's good. I guess forward thinking to life after cycling as well. Yeah, I think we got that traction like you're saying. I think that's the way to do it. It's like throw shit at a wall and see which bit sticks. Like for me, I tried YouTube and I tried podcasts and I think I got to like nine tells and subscribers, I was watching on YouTube, but that was fucking growing to get there. And I could put out a video on this like three tells on people and watch it. And then I started putting out podcasts and even within the first couple of months, I was way out stripping that. And I was like, okay, this is a lot easier. Because I found out it was just all day having to go around. I committed to trying to do one video a day for an entire year. Oh, yeah. And I made it like five months. I think I thought I came up for it badly. That's, I mean, that's commitment though. That really is. We aim for one a week, probably on average of one every 10 days or two weeks. Yeah. I feel like at this point we need to do a dynamic ad inserted for Sworfshark. I just conditioned that in your voice. Yeah. I mean, they've been wonderful. I mean, again, it was a sponsor. The kind of Surfshark was one of our first integrated sponsors, and they've stuck with it. So clearly they're seeing, I mean, the beauty of all this stuff is it's all trackable. You can see it direct. The sort of click through rates and all of that. And they continue to support the channel. And it's, I have to, we've had to start thinking of more ingenious ways to sort of merge into the sort of the advertisement section. I was been sectioned on trying to use my wit to, I mean, we had one night, we got robbed, we had a car broken into. We had a YouTube video, not about the car broken into, but as part of our weekend. And I think I went and said something like, yeah, we got robbed, which isn't fun. What else isn't fun is virtual robbery. It's easy to segue. Yeah, yeah. Just to give some comments to listeners. So, Surfshark is a VPN that sponsors Alex's YouTube channel. So, I'm sure if you head on over to his YouTube channel, is there some mad discount you give? Huge discount. It's massive. It's 83% off for three months. Yeah. And then it's great. What could they say? It's like, I think it's a small combarral. If you're not happy with that, you're not happy shopping. You're happy shoplifting. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was 83%. It was like, and I think for a couple of months, it went up to 84%. And then it came back to 83%. It seems awfully specific. But then maybe that's, do I remember chatting to a cycling weight creature a few years ago, they'd stop doing like 10 things you should do to improve your cycling and moving more towards like 13 things you should do to improve your cycling because people are thinking if it's like 13 it seems more genuine than them because they've stopped on 13 that means there is not 14 like there is 13 and there is not 12 either. Yeah definitely I'm fascinated but you started patterning it interrupt because we'd spend a lot of, like, behind the podcast, the actual company is a coaching company. So we spend a lot of money on Facebook ads every week. But I'm fascinated with pattern interrupts and what stops you scroll on on Facebook and definitely uneven numbers. Like, I only screen captured just before the call, I screen captured an ad and it was some guy how I made 13 tells from 186 euro and 54 cent a day. And I was like, that's a very weird number of money to make. And I screen captured it because it's like, it's a pattern with the route. If you say, this is the session set out of 20% onto your threshold, or this is the session set out of 17.8 for 6% onto my threshold. Yeah, not exactly. The sponsor makes it all possible and it makes this, I've been protected for the podcast and I've had quite a few sponsors come and approach it. But because it's the coaching companies running in the background, they don't have that necessity to take the sponsor straight away. So I've been, some of them just didn't fit. It's been like spammy supplement companies and stuff. So when the right one comes along, and it seems like you found that, it's the, I think you know, when it's the right time to take it on. If it feels wrong, it probably is wrong. I completely agree with you. I think there's also a, there's a bit of a to-boo-round sponsors. people don't want to see sponsors. And you kind of there's this bit of a guilt if you have a sponsor, but I mean so many things would not exist without sponsorship. I mean, it's an easy one for me to talk about as the hour record, like without sponsors that would not have been feasible.

3.Sponsorship and Pro Cycling's Fragility

And it's like, well, I shouldn't shy away from saying that and thanking the generosity of these sponsors, but then it's also a two way thing. It's like, I'm here to say, you know, that these companies, and I do, Chanel and I, we do try and always align ourselves with brands that we believe in or that we use, like we both use Surfshark and I think if we believe in it then we're more than happy to promote it. But then it's kind of how the world works really. But I think it's a problem for pro cycling at the moment. You have these teams and you just look at Quebecasas going under this year. There's so many good bike riders out there and And everyone is looking for, it's not quite the formula one, trying to get a formula one seat, but it's super super competitive to get these places in the world or. And God isn't opening their eyes to what you were opening your eyes to go on. Okay, like, yeah, I'm a bike rider, but there's, you know, there's 50 other bike riders, you know, without disrespect, there's not 50 other bike riders like you. But you know what I'm getting at? There's, you know, a lot of bike riders that can do the same job, and it's how do you add a differentiation to that. And how do you make yourself more of a brand? How do you give a return on investment to sponsors? Because there's a reason sponsors aren't flocking to pro cycling. There's no return on investment there. It's like charity or philanthropy. Yeah, absolutely. I know there's a lot of teams which have a very fragile existence in that. But, yeah, my team, for example, is up until now, now that we've secured more sponsorship with Premier Tech and a few other bits, it was one guy, the main backing was one guy who is a massive fan of cycling and wants to, you know, Sylvan Adams, who wants to promote cycling in Israel and use this. But what it was like, it's so fragile, because what happens if he gets bored of cycling? He decides that he's going to be more fascinated with sailing and wants to do that instead. The team crumbles almost overnight. We had exactly the situation in Ireland. We had the leisure event series, I think it was like, I can't remember, it was like seven or eight leisure events through the summer were sponsored by our Postal Service that was called on Post. They also sponsored a continental team and they also sponsored our 8-day 2.2 professional race, the on Post Ross. And then I had a lot for one sponsor, isn't it? Yeah, and I had a change as CEO, who the new CEO comes in like, actually, I don't like cycling. I like sailing. And all of a sudden, we lose the team, the events, the Ross in one year. And you're looking at the organizers it is events ago. You couldn't have diversified. You couldn't have seen this shit coming. It's like fucking pull your head out lads. Yeah, it's tough. I mean, it's in the good thing for us as we are. Yeah, the team now is becoming more resilient, I guess, with a few more sponsors. So, it's yeah. I had a mate and I was a teammate to anyone who's in French amateur team, and then he signed for Rafa Condor and I built a company with him at the start, Aaron Bogol. But he was able to of cycling for, he was probably out of pro cycling for four years. And then he was at a wedding one night, and he was completely hammered at the wedding. And there was an old director of ours was at the wedding and a director dared him to come back and ride the on post-ross. And in a drunken stage, he agrees with four weeks trying to have been off the bike for four years to do the rest. And that moment, like he looks back at that moment and goes, Oh fuck, that was like, that was a mistake. Do you have a moment like that with your record where you're like, fuck, you went that again. That was a lot of hard work. Um, not when we got to Mexico. There was a few evenings, probably in the month or two, leading up to it where it was like, shit, we are so short on budget here. And like, we don't have the funds to, um, to cover this ourselves. At what point is this irresponsible? Well, We've got a one-year-old that we're trying to raise as well as we can. Is this... We don't... Yeah, I record. I don't... Ultimately, I didn't need to do it. I felt like I needed to do it for me, but I could have quite sort of not happily, but I could have ended my career going. I held the hour record and I didn't go back. I could have gone back, but I didn't go back because it was too hard. So there was a couple of evenings where I was like, this week we're gonna have to knock this one on the head and then we'd scrabble around and sort of reach out to some new contacts like some new guys called Endurance Zone who sort of brought up a good chunk of money through a few their contacts and just managed to just managed to scrape it together and yeah it was ultimately successful even though it was not successful. So what pushes you to get through those dark moments instead of going and what I'm just going to kind of end is a little bit of the public shame of announcing and then having the back out of it is it truly believe you can go and take the record or is it more motivated with the charities? Probably, there's never would have been shame in backing out of it.

4.Unfinished Business With the Hour Record

Because I would never have been ashamed to go, you know what, like, I cannot put this much of our own resources into this, into a sort of a self-project when I have a daughter that I want to sort of do the best in my fall. And this isn't that. So I would have had absolutely no shame in that. I think I, as I've got older, I've thought forwards quite a bit. Short term and long term. So you wake up, you've got five or six hours to do. It's, the weather is not great, you're not feeling very motivated quite often I'll think forwards it's like well how am I going to feel at the end of that ride if I do it or if I don't do it and that usually gets me out the door. It's got strategy. And staying with interval sessions but also the same with the R record I was like Christ my career came quite close to ending at the the end of 2020 with some contract worries. I was like, you know what, I don't want to finish my career have been not had another go at the hour record because in 2015, yes, I broke it, but I finished. One of my first thoughts was I could have gone faster. It It was really, really gut wrenching to sit there and go. I could have given Brad a hard time. And that's, yeah. Given the time again, I wouldn't have done it any differently just because Movistar, that's what Movistar wanted me to do. And they organized the whole thing. And all I had to do was basically turn up. And I think, you know, but there's something quite, there's something quite difficult, not difficult to run a word hollow, I guess, about throwing like months and months of work in and then not delivering what was ultimately was a high zone for low zone four ride and not actually performance the best of your ability, which was another motivator for going back and I think part of me was like, oh, let's just rent a track out for an hour and sort of Nick a track bike off team GB, Borrow Manchester for an hour, ask them to turn the heaters on and see what I can do, just for my own sort of head. But then it was like, well, if we're going to do that we may as well. As we'll do it properly and you're at a massive sponsor in Pfizer and then like my team putting a significant chunk of money as well as well. Premier Tech and then it becomes much bigger and then you can't just rock up and sort unofficially do it. And then I think if you do the UCI get quite upset as well. And it seems like it's an, I don't say it's beatable because it's not fucking beatable for me, but it seems like a record can be beaten, like going into that, I was like, I know, like, I kind of tough, I was watching my girlfriend and she's like, is he gonna get it? And I was like, I don't know, 50-50, I'd say. Like, there's a good chance it can be beaten. But it seems like if like Ghana goes at this record, it's done. No one else is going at the record. Yeah, I mean, it's done for now. And then later further down the line, there'll be another Ghana and now technology will move on again. So yeah, I mean for sure he's your one that you'd consider to be able to really stick a big chunk of lamp on it at the moment. Yeah, I think there's some other guys in a world tour that could definitely add outside the world tour of course. Like Dan, I think John Archibald could really give it a good good guard love to see what Ashton Landry could do because he's tiny in his era, his CDA is insane. That's a nice, amazing. Yeah, so, yeah, I think there's a bunch of guys, and it is beautiful, I think, for me, it's painful how close it was, even though it was two laps off, but you're... And I think with a different preparation, you learn more from your mistakes than you do, you these good days, but looking back, I could, I think I could find it, I certainly could not do much more, but I think I could scrape it on a better air pressure day, better preparation, a bit less stress in the run-in, maybe looking at the sea level day. It's, yeah, it's like... It's like Ashton and Lamby. They have, you know, undoubtedly is the talent and undoubtedly, you know, he's put down some amazing records. I think he's the war record. Does he have the war record in the IP at the moment? Yes, he does. Well, do they have the machinery behind them to pull off the air record? Because it seems like anyone that goes for it just talks about how stressful it is. The logistics are trying to organize it? Yeah, I mean, it's massive. It's I think just having, you need to, Ashton would have to have the ideal scenario is to just be able to turn up and have what I had in 2015 with Moby Star. They say how much track times you need, where do you need it? They booked it all. I went and did it, trained for it and then like, okay, this is the day. up. Then with that you get a couple of sponsorship requirements and I wouldn't say, I think I was lucky with MobyStar that we had very, very good equipment but then you could start looking at who's got a, I'm MobyStar now, I've got an ABBA's error helmet and I don't think it's fast. So then you start getting a way up, a toss up between what's quick and what's not, and then knowing that you're going to have to give something away.

5.Wind Tunnel Gains and Selling Marginal Gains

But it's all about balancing it, to be honest. We had the big balance. How much time do we spend altitude versus how much time do we spend on the track? And there's little compromises like that. You're an absolute, you're probably best known for just being a TT specialist, one of the fastest of the last generation against the clock. How frustrating is that to be confined in your TT equipment? I see you're rocking the new white as the hands up. Yes, yes. And how much ability do you have to tweak that and say, okay, I want to put my own aero bar is on to what I want to put my own, you know, whatever it is on to it. I want to write also metrics. Yeah, Israel Premier Tech are pretty good. They're pretty open to, if you can prove something faster, they'll do their best to let you use it. That's cool. And I think generally, like, last couple of years, I spent a lot of time in a wind tunnel and I kind of always say, if I'm testing for someone else, if I'm doing... I'd like to sort test him for the team or I'd help him at testing for TNGB or something. I'd be like, oh, can I just run this? Like for my own? I'll always try and sneak a couple of runs of... I may own researching at the end of the test and come back with some data. And what I'll always try and do is something that will help the team. I try to not be selfish with it. I'm like a big one the other. And as I've got older, I realized you have to, certainly with bike riders, you have to really explain the results in a certain way. Because whilst I understand that if there's a 5% gain in a skin suit, someone else might go, Oh yeah, no, that sounds good. We should probably realize. And I'm like, do you understand what that means? Like how big that is? And they're like, yeah, right. It's for, yeah, 5%. It's, yeah, but you just put a bit more power out. And I'm like, if you're doing 420 watts, I only have to do 400 to go the same speed as, you know, I think people don't sort of make that connection. but they don't believe it can be that much of a difference. And I think the one that I did a couple of years ago was a road race skin suits, because we didn't have a good road race skin suit. And I got a friend of mine to make me basically a TT suit with pockets. And I set these two suits in the tunnel and I made it as fair as I possibly could. So I did a test for the climbers, a test for the breakaway riders, and then a test for the sprinters. The sprinters are the ones that are really, it's funny, given that they are the fastest, it's amazing how unwilling they are to acknowledge aero being a thing. What happens at 70K an hour is far more important than what happens at 20. So I did this test. put numbers on both the suits, stuck some food in the pockets to make it as real life as possible. Then I said to the guys in the town, it's like, can you put the results into a real world scenario? It's not. This one's 2% better or 20 watts better because no one actually understands what that means on the road. And they came back. So the climbing one, I think it was, we simulated it into a 5k climb at 5%, it was going to take 20 minutes. And the TT, so it was seven seconds faster. So it's not much, but it's not nothing either. Yeah, it's been holding on to the break. Yeah, yeah. The breakaway one was, yeah, I can't remember the exact results, but it, you generally guys in breakaways that a lot, you don't have to convince them that aerodynamics exists. They're pretty open to it. But as sprinters, sprints as well was brilliant. Wind was at 70k an hour and over 200 meters, there was a 1.6 meter difference between the fast road race skin suit and the slow road race skin suit. Well, then a sprinter's eyes lights up because they're like, well, I've lost so many races by less than that. And they're like, you need to say that if I use this suit, I'm going to be one and a half meters further ahead. I was like, yes, that exactly is what this is. And also, whilst you're at it, don't wear the helmet with all the holes in, please put the ventilated one. But I remember I used to ride for a team in Toronto, I was hanging out with Mike Barry and training a lot with him. And he was like, yeah, that's too nice with Mike. Oh yeah, he was saying to tell in scol you when they started to turn on all the skin suits. He said, like, lots of people are busting themselves laughing. Just going, like, what are these games up there with their skin suits? And it shows you how far we've gone. Oh yeah. Yeah. And even in the, so Aerosocks has been the one over, I'd say over the last five years that people have really struggled to accept. But I know that their Neopro joined Israel last year that young lad called Sebastian Berwick and Hey, we got a kid drop and the aerosox hadn't turned up yet. He was like, where's the aerosox? And I saw a look to them. I was like, you want to wear them? And he was just like, why wouldn't you? I was like, there we go. You get it. You understand. What's the difference between regular socks to aerosucks? I don't know. I don't know.

6.Tricking Out the Perfect TT Bike

But it's, I mean, aerosocks will always come out faster. a little bit. It might be a lot. Yeah, but in, so this was a great chat I had with, actually to have Jacob Jirenator Britain. He did a inventory, inventory, sorry, on all of the riders on their TT bikes for the team time trial. And one of the riders sort of sent a this back and he had a certain chain on and Dan said, can you put a juris chain on? And this rider was like, okay, why? And Dan's like, oh, because it's faster. And so then he turned up at the tour of Britain, he hadn't changed the chain. Why haven't he changed the chain? He's like, well, yeah, but how much faster is it? As I, why should that even matter? If If it's faster, why would you not? If you translate it to Formula One, you don't hear Mercedes go, oh, we're going to put this new front wing on and someone going, yeah, but is it much faster? Yeah, see, it's a different equation though for ULads than it is for amateurs. Because for me, if I'm like, okay, do I throw a Jure Ace chain on? And I'm like, okay, it's a 130 quid for a Jure Ace chain. And it's two seconds faster. Now it's like, oh, the helm, it's going to cost me 400 quid. but that's going to be two minutes faster. So it's nearly like this new crazy variable of like CDA divided by pounds to get your speed. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And I can completely understand that. So you have to prioritize what's going to get you the biggest gains. So if you were tricking out a TT bike now, say you're a tower tomorrow and you're tricking out a TT bike. Any brands, what are you going with? I mean, the hands-on is good. The hands-on is very, very good. And that is largely down to it being the, and it's largely down to the, it's the engineer that Graham Shife, who did the Cervalo P5, which would be another nice option. But you see I have not changed rules, but relaxed some rules and misinterpreted, or reinterpreted some other rules. the rules. So it's kind of the first bike that can abide by these new rules which... Yeah, into the three to one sense. ...makes sense. Quick. Yes, so the head tube, the head tube is 15mm wide in the middle which is half the width of the attire which is mad. So I think that would be my frame choice. I would go for a composite spoke front wheel. Yeah, and sort of a trispoke or something. I think just at the moment they are... It's not something I've tested. I just cannot see how they can be slower than a spoke wheel. in my sort of, yeah, just looking at it. But then you look at what NDSs use and then they, they're a good benchmark because they have freedom. They seem to rock up with the different set of wheels all the time that it got lightweight, ericote wheels, Princeton wheels, as well as their Dura-A's wheels. So they're clearly trying to find, or they're not confined by sponsors. Disc wheels are pretty benign actually. There's a lot of importance placed on a disc wheel but it's not as the differences and not as big as the front wheel. And actually the same goes for the handlebars that are cupped, like the follow, you sort of your speed bar kind of thing. I mean, they look lovely. They're really nice for support but from an aero point of view the difference is not as big as it looks. And to be honest with you, the biggest place worth spending time on, and money on issue skin suit every day of the week, because it's the largest body of mass that you're trying to move through the air. The front end of the hands are the way they sort of roiser on the handlebars. It looks very P4Vesque, So it's interesting to say it was the same engineer that worked on both of them. Yes, yeah, Graham Shive. Brilliant, brilliant guy. Very smart. How much importance do you place on oversized jockey wheels, wax chains? Oversized jockey wheels actually could be from an aero perspective. The gain in chain line efficiency is outweighed by the aero loss in having the larger jockey wheel. I think is what I'm starting to hear. It's not something I've tested because it's not been important. If you look at, you know, rower than ganner and these guys in TTs, they're not running them. But ceramic, there's just no reason to not have ceramic bearings. And then I think we're just getting ceramic bearings as well. But if you clear all the grease out, put a smaller amount of light, sort of TT grease in, then things will just run freely. Makes opinions on how much it's going to give you, but it feels nice, you know? And so that's a big chunk. And then I think once people, I obsess over and get laughed at in 2GB is actually bearings in the pedals. I've gone to... Well, I've never heard of some of the turns in every... No. I don't change them. I just strip all the sort of compacted grease out and then put a really light one in and they just spin. It's been... Interestingly, it's not something that you'll see on a power meter. You'll never be able to tell unless it's in a pedal-based power meter. I guess then you'd be able to tell. But in any power meter that happens after the pedal bearing, if you like. So a spider-based lana, crank-based lana, turbo-trainer-based one, will not pick up if you've changed from fast pedals to slow pedals because it's the resistance has already been absorbed. Changing lanes slightly, your role I suppose within the team, maybe a measure of how competitive time trials have become or maybe a measure of you evolving as a rider and stage your career.

7.Embracing the Lead-Out Role

But it seems like you're progressing to becoming more of a lead-out rider. now has become a dad sat with that kind of hecticness of the bunch of sprints and how is, oh congratulations on the engagement by the way, and how is your wife feeling about this new role? I wouldn't say this as a new role to be honest. My problem is I pigeonholed myself as a time trialist because I love it and it's all I talk about. And certainly for the last two years we were the Olympics in our record, it has been a main focus. But I've noticed in terms of staying in the world tour, if I'm known as a time trial specialist that cannot win time trials that generally gets top 10s or the top 5 or something, I'm pretty useless to a team. But I've always been, I have always been a lead out man, I was leading out in Team Sky. Sort of well, I was leading out in movie star, but we didn't have a sprinter to lead out. So I was kind of leading out into climbs or leading out to, yeah, to knowing that we weren't going to win because we just didn't have a high caliber sprinter. And then I guess fell into the role a bit more, a bit more properly with Marcel Kittle at Kautusha. and we led out very well there but it obviously Marcel had his own personal battles that he was fighting. And yeah and then we've got this wonderful combination, I know I haven't answered your question specifically but Israel's prototype we've got this wonderful combination of riders with Rick Zaball, Matias brandlay and me where we were very good together and we don't have any aspirations to win bunch prints ourselves. We just want to drop someone off that can win bunch prints and it's a lot of fun. So I think that this year is I think focusing on the lead on the lead out as much as I ever have, but probably talking about being a lead out man will be my will be another main goal so that you know I get noticed and part of the market I can't notice. Yeah, yeah exactly and I mean I guess with the YouTube it's quite nice because I do get to I don't rely on on journalists or interviews I do get to sort of tell everyone what's going on and where I'm at. And myself. You have some Zola for next year? Yes, and that's exciting. And that's exciting. Yeah, Grypool was brilliant. It's a pity, just didn't quite come off in Turkey, because we were dominating the leadouts there, but a young Philipson and, obviously, a very good Cavendish for that. So, yeah, we've got the Zola now. I enjoyed a chaos and it's not as chaotic as it looks. When I watch it back, I'm like, holy shit, that looks mental. But, as I was talking to a racing driver, I was talking to a guy that runs, my cousin runs a touring car team in the UK. Is that first lap just not just mad? And he's like, well, the thing is, all you've got is the car in front of you and the car behind you. you're not aware of what's happening two or three cars in front or two or three cars behind. All you've got is your own middle perimeter and that's kind of what it's like in the bunch. You're only you're focusing on what's happening to you right immediately to your right, immediately to your left and in kind of a meet a wide channel directly in front of you all the way to the front because that's what's going to wipe you out if someone gets it all wrong. So, and I've found with age, I've calmed down a lot, and grown in confidence, like if you need to be at this point in the front, I think I sit there and like, you know what, I'm good at this, I can do that. And there was a real- Like a fucking neo-out of Matrix or something, just navigate the chaos. Yeah, he's this, you have to, I think the minute you start thinking that you have to stay in the same place all the time is when it's all going to go wrong. It's just it's impossible to remain in the same place in the bunch because the bunch is always moving. I think it's knowing your own abilities. So for example, 2020 Terreina I'driatico, there was a finishing lap. It was like a hotdog, but it was about a 16k lap. And so with 8k to go, you've got the top, the last corner before the straight run to the finish line. And so with 16k to go, all of the directors are on to their team going, you have to be well positioned for that corner. And so like five or six k before this corner, everyone's starting to drag race. And I stuck my nose in the wind and it's like 500 watts that they're doing. Alright, you know what? I can't do that. I can't do that for the next eight or nine minutes. So I'm not going to. I'm going to drop back. I'm going to surf around in the top 20. Make sure I've got my guys with me. And then 2K to go ahead another little look and it's still sort of 500. I was like, no, that still can't do that. Because you know that it's then going to be an acceleration into the corner. So I kind of just surfed around. And then it was interesting. It came to go. It went up again because everyone panics. Because and I think a lot of that is the directors in the radio like panicking. Yeah. And then panicking the riders. And then 300 metres before the corner, there's like a lull because everyone's gas everyone's like cooked and then I just popped out.

8.Outsmarting Van der Poel in the Sprint

Popped around the front of everyone and I was first into the corner having not put my nose in the wind and it kind of just last because I think because I'd seen a change in myself where I was like, this is this is a better way of doing this. Less ego and more ill-com driven. Yeah. And then we had another one with like Vanderpole rocked up and we had to be into this corner first with two and a half to go and we were all there, Albus and Fenix were there and Vanderpole was doing a lead out and he came round, he dived up the inside of the inside of me, I'm not sure, I was like, no, no, I'm good, I'm not going to drag race you because I will lose. And I think I even thought like you're training, you're using this as training, but you're also perhaps a little bit naive because he's quite young and he's got an awful lot of power and if you've got an awful lot of power you can use it to get out in most situations. So I just sat on his wheel and he strung the whole bunch out and it was like Vanderpole then me then three of my teammates and the sprinter and then Alpiesin Fenix and I've actually basically did our lead out for us and and dropped me off with like 1.2K today. Happy days. So it's much more using my head nowadays and using my legs and just staying really cool, calm and collected and trying to navigate the chaos. So just finishing up Alex, last question. I know we are going into contract year. How much toss have you given to, do you wanna do another year or have you started thinking about what does life look like after cycle? I have thought about life. I think I had to think about life after cycling in 2020 when things were getting a bit close. So, I would like to do two more years after this one. And I think if I have a decent season, I do a good lead out role, I think that should be fine to do. And yeah, I think it's interesting because young riders are so fashionable now, but I think experience counts for a lot because I think teams are realising when they sign young riders, they, like these young riders need guidance. Actually, at the moment, I think the difficult bracket to be in is 25 to 30 because you're not young and you're not experienced. So I'm hoping that plays into my favor. And then I think if it doesn't, we're ready. Like we are ready. I can look back at my cycling career and go like, you know what, I've made a good job of it. I think I pulled everything out myself. I was a bit lazy for a couple of years. I think winning at stage of the year in 2013 was great, but it also, it did me a lot of harm because I suddenly thought I was far better than I was and took my foot off the gas. So I think since then I've extracted everything a can from myself. And it's all going back to that forward thinking. It's like I chucked everything at the Olympics and I didn't get selected and that was that. And I was at peace with it because I did everything I could. and the hour record checked everything. We got it that and I did it. And I might have missed the record, but like priced at a 54.555 kilometers, which is not nothing to be ashamed of while shooting for 55.2. So I can be really happy with what I've achieved. And yeah, I think you also like provided for family family for this time as well and set us up quite nicely for life after cycling. But I don't know what I want to do. I really don't. Some days I want to just step away from cycling completely and find a job in the city and live that life perhaps. Some days I might be stupid to not be with recycling because I think I've crafted a reputation for myself as knowing a bit of knowing quite a lot with how to go faster, how to turn a donkey into a racehorse, so to speak. So I'm going to be silly to waste that. I think that reputation actually had one rider come up to me once on a road bike to ask just some aero stuff. And he literally said, he's like, oh, you'll know what my CDA is. And I was like, I just went along with it. I was like, well, if that's the reputation I've got, I'm just going to roll with it. I was like, yeah, yeah, of course, of course, of a wizard. Yeah, just by looking at you. I put a post up on Instagram earlier on, it was like a picture of me 10 years ago on a a picture now and it's like, it's something I've been thinking about and Dory and writing a lot about coming into New Year. Would my younger self be proud of who I am now? And like looking back on your career, you know, a couple of year old stage wins, you've tore up Britain's national records, national championships, ridden toward a Francis, provided for your family building this cool brand, fuck like from where I'm sitting, it seems very hard to not look back and think you've done a pretty fucking good job so far Alex. Thank you. And I hear a lot of that was motivated actually. A lot of that was motivated by my dad. When I was young, my dad was a race car driver and he used to tell us these and our massive, massive petrol head, massive motor racing fan, very much in the Lewis Hamilton camp this year with the Formula One.

9.Being Your Kids' Sporting Hero

But I just remember my dad telling all these stories from his racing and I sat there like, like, oh shit, what am I going to tell my kids? Because I need to do something. And yeah, I think that sort of prompted my want to be in sport. And then there's a sort of the, how's the expression? I'm looking for a sort of fell into cycling by chance. It's a very trying to bang our clients over the head, when I say like, fucking get a hold of like B2Hiro in your own story, like B2Hiro that your kids will look at go, fuck, my dad's cool. Yeah, like, you know, so many people are just drifting through it and fucking nine to five jobs. And where's the four stories? Where's their fuck? I stuck, I drag race van der Poel and he left my team stories. That's cool as fuck. No, no, no, I chose not to drag race van der Poel. That's the story. Yeah, I mean, but you say that, but then you look at, Obviously, we friends with a lot of kids with families and their parents see their heroes, no matter what. I think it's nice to, it's just I just grew up with a dad who was my hero and my sporting hero as well and that had an effect on me massively, which I think is very much the reason why I'm doing sport. But yeah, there's probably some strong correlation between what parents do and then what their kids end up doing because it's what you grow up with and it's what the people you, for a huge chunk of your life, got 100% of your life up to a point. The people that you trust the most and look up to the most and go to the most for guidance. So if you're back on this podcast, they're 12 months from now. What would have to happen between now and then for you to go? Fuck, bro, you won't believe how cool my year was. Is it fun? Is it sports? Is it an extra of everything? I think to get to get grand tour stage wins with an insola as part of the lead out because I've been part of some mind-blowingly good lead outs that just haven't quite come up with the win and just to have that like does of winning a bunch sprint. I mean yeah I think what would be what would be called is to have a successful 0 and then get a panic call to go to the tour with Nitzolo and perform there would be something. A sprinter is I don't think sprints will be Israel Premier Tech's goal but you just never know injuries, illnesses and just how the everything falls into place you never know. I think picking up stage wins with Nizolo and Azure. A win somewhere along the line with myself. I don't care where, I don't care how, just a cheeky little win. It'd be nice to get my national stripes back for another time because I'm tired with Stuart Dangerfield on 6. I think with the caliber of riders coming through, I don't think it's going to be possible for anyone to get more because there's too much depth. It's going to be too competitive at nationals. I had some absolute gifts of nationals where I'd have my two, four, six minute man, wouldn't turn up and I'd catch my eight minute man. Oh, I know. Yeah, so I don't think that's going to happen again. So it would be nice to get the seventh. But yeah, just, and then like family wise, just financial stability. like with air on a wedding planning because that shit's expensive. It's actually it's a breeze to organise though compared to an hour record. I can imagine and I suppose 100,000 YouTube subs isn't far off or either. Yeah, no, that's a, I mean it'd be nice, it'd be nice, but I think it's about getting the, you know, just delivering stuff that people enjoy watching and having fun whilst doing it. Like some of the best, some of the best stuff we filmed was just chats in the buses. And I remember I watched in a cheering documentary where he went on a boat to write his album for a month across the Atlantic. And he was like, You wouldn't know that we've done anything because we've been in the same clothes every day, every time we film something over the course of this month. And it's like being on the team bus. It's like, oh, we're off to stage one. Oh, we finished stage one. Oh, we're off to stage two. Oh, we finished stage two. But then chatting with the boys and then I think they're all quite happy to get involved and not take it too seriously and joke around. And I think we had a moment in the Torah Britain where Mike Woods in the Manchester stage, because he's involved with the service course. He was like, I'll go get everyone's service course coffees. And he got on my YouTube YouTube video. And he was like, yeah, no, they're really good coffee. They're from the service course. You should check him out. I just pan the camera around. I was like, anyone else wants to shamelessly promote something whilst we're here? And I was like, I'm pretty sure Frugal shout out at some point if he was here. So it's. You know what it seems like, probably when you're in the bubble that I'm just making videos. But I'm on the far side of that and we're coaching clients. And most of our clients, they're not sporting young lads. They're not your Joe Lavrecks who are chasing world-to-world contracts. They're lads who are establishing their career, set up their family, mainly in their 40s to 54, but it is the demographic. And they're struggling with motivation. They're struggling to get on top of their weight and they're struggling to get on top of their health and their happiness.

10.Respect for the Working Amateur Cyclist

And the vehicle they choose to reclaim that health happiness is cyclone. And videos like yours and free on me and people like that that are taking the time to put this content out. It helps these guys. It gets them out the fucking door. Like, I know I've been sitting there in the living room looking out the window of the rain and my kid, God fuck, will I go? Will I not? I don't flick on a video, a year or three of me or something. I'm like, fuck it. I will go. Like that's meaningful. Like it's worthwhile. Like you're making a big difference to people's lives, even though, you know, you might be able to see from your side of the camera. That's really nice. I think I did one recently just on how to get through a long turbo session. And I said in it, I find it incredible, the guys that still knock in like 15 to 20 hour weeks whilst holding down a full time job. I was like, that to me is far and away harder than anything I'm doing because I get up, I ride, I recover. I mean, I look after one year, I joint look after a one year old as well, but I would say I do 20% of the local. And the thought of then afterwards or before having to then use mental brain power to do night work that actually puts food on the table, I cannot begin to fathom and that's That's, yeah, I think it shouldn't be anyone that does that. It should never be sort of discredited for what I think it's incredibly tough to be able to do that. In my mind, from the other side of the fence, tougher than me doing a fully supported 35-hour week on a training camp. Yeah. 100%. It's a really difficult thing to get a hold of. And it's when momentum goes against you, it's so easy to, you know, I've lived different boats out. And when you're a full-time boy, Groder, you know, you miss a day or two days because you're feeling down in a slump, you know, that's a big chunk of training to miss. And it's, you know, it seems like you've missed a lot. But when you're not a full-time boy, Groder, you've job, you're family, you've other obligations, like I talked to a client out of their own and he's just coming on as a client and he's like, Oh, I took a week off the bike back in October. I haven't got back on since. I was like, fucking hell. And like the bike is his, you know, two offers staying happy and staying healthy. And he's in that much of a slump. But you know, your content and hopefully this podcast the odd time, it pulls people out of that slump. Yeah, now I can, you know, I think for your guide, the hardest, unfortunately, the hardest rides are the ones after a big stint off. But the good thing to know is it does, it gets better every it gets easier every single time. So maintain after a month off in Octa, after we have a month off, everyone I'm like the hardest ride is that first one back. And that's the hardest ride of the year. But I'm done. Alex people are getting sick and listen to us now before I need to find out the answers to this one. Have you ridden the Ross? No, you're not a proper focus. Sorry, I came close. I It did come close once to being in a composite team for it. But yeah, Alaska, I'm sorry. You know what I'm gonna do after you retire, I'm gonna get from the podcast, I'm gonna get all these bangers that I've had on the podcast onto this team. I'm part of Ross and I'll just sit at the back of it. I've watched fucking you and would see it all just rip it at his shoes. Well, I think there's another race. I want to do the regional championships in the UK. Like I'm not allowed to do it because you can't ride that level of race if you're on a well-taught team. I mean, I'd also have to win it. But the bragging rights to be able to say I am the Essex champion. Like arguably bigger than being a national champion. Alex, thanks for joining me on the road, my podcast. Thanks very much for having me. Cheers, buddy. Rodman, before you rush off, I want to mention something completely new. We recently just formed the new Rodman Cycling Club. So there's two elements to this club. One, it's a virtual club. You can join it anywhere in the world. And two, it's an in-person club based in Ireland. So if you're a racing cyclist in Ireland, then you're looking for a team to race in the colours of next season. If you're looking to hang out with some amazing people and do group rides on the weekend, go and check it out. roomancycling.com forward slash roadman CC the link is in the show notes hope you can join us as part of the new roadman cycling club