1.Rowman, let's chat with Pete Stenner

Rowman, let's chat with Pete Stenner. Cue that intro. The big question is this. How do we use cycling as a tool to improve our health, our happiness, and our long-term? That is the question, this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Anthony Walsh, and welcome to the Rowman Podcast. Rowman, welcome back. It's Wednesday, it's another long-form Roman podcast. We are continuing to countdown to Christmas. 20 toward now, we've got the 24, we've the 25th, two sleeps to go. See the way I had to do that with Matt's. And if that was on video, you would have seen me counting that out on fingers. Today is another absolutely savage podcast. I welcome back to the podcast, Pete Stettner. Pete is our second guest to repeat on the podcast with Tyler Hamilton being the other one. Excuse me, a three-peat, Ed Veal is the other one. And I really enjoy chatting to Pete today. I listened to Joe Rogan podcast. I suppose he was a force podcast I got into. And actually, it wasn't a lawyer. I listened to this podcast back before a podcast was even a ting. I think I was even in school. There was no podcast platforms. I had to download on Loymware, Zen, and the Art of Triathlon. Wonder whatever happened to that lad. Used to listen to him going to sleep. Random talk. But on Joe Rogen, he has this kind of, you know, he brings in fresh guests for every show, but he has this kind of inner circle to do to his circles back to all the time. And I always love that because you get to go deeper on each subsequent interview. So I got Pete's step back on this one. And I'm super excited about that. Pete never want to rest on his laurels. If you don't know his background, you can go back and listen to your podcast. He was World Horror with Trek, decided to pack it all in at World Horror come across and revolutionize the sport of gravel racing. He's been added again in the last couple of months and he's lowering the record for the famous Hoyt Rim Trail, fastest time ever on that, according to the Travis segment. I chat with Pete about that, living in a van, driving across America, coping in these strange, strange times, gravel racing and much, much more. Before I dive into the podcast, it's coming into Christmas week. Be a good Samaritan. Buy me a point of beer, come into Christmas. The pubs are even closing here on Christmas Eve. So I have two days to enjoy the fruits of that point of beer. Buy me a point of beer, five euro, that supports the podcast and it's a nice little way to tip the cap and say, thanks for a year's work up to now. Hopefully you're getting some value out of the podcast and and hopefully you're sharing this around with friends who are into the gravel sand. Guys and girls, I've pushed this one off, long enough. Welcome back to the podcast, Mr. Pete Stetman. That's good to be back, thank you. Pete, you're one of only two people. You're in the elusive club, one of only two people that I've shot at twice. You and Tyler Hamilton. Oh man, well, and Tyler's a friend too, and I did his podcast and maybe if I ever have my own podcast, YouTube can come on and we'll like make this a little trinity going. You need a podcast. Actually, I forgot to mention this off air to you. Everyone's going like, dudes, you should have had this job before you start recording. But Toyler's jumped to him the other day and he's like, we need to get you, me, Pete's dead. We need to go and do a big adventure, right? And I'm like, dude, I'm down. Tell me where I'm going. I, yep, 100%. I've been poking Tyler to get on off road and tell him that he'll have, I mean, It's good to see he's rekindled the love for the bike, but I think you'd have a lot more fun on the dirt. So yeah, man, you get over, actually, I also think Ireland needs a gravel race. I mean, you guys have epic nothingness out there. Like I just, you know, once they open the borders, if you create an event, I'll help highlight it. Let's do it. We're definitely gonna try it. We're gonna try it yet. Although, Toiler did sort of highlight it, a pace and strategy. He's like, I want peace on the front. I want to be in the last wheel, I don't want to be behind you because you're the biggest dude. So on people in the log, most draft of you, me sitting on the back potentially with a rope, just holding on. That's fine, we're all getting through it together. So that's the whole point, right? Pete, I want to talk a little bit about gravel and sort of onboarding people who are, maybe a little bit disillusioned with the road scene or a little bit sick of the exclusionary nature of road racing.

2.Suppose a nice segue to that is talking about maybe before you…

And I suppose a nice segue to that is talking about maybe before you decided to transition because you transition from the very top of our sport, the place where everyone wants to be. You transition from there in the gravel. So maybe talk us through your mindset of that time and how that made sense. Yeah, you know, it was the fun inclusivity aspect that really drew me to it. know, I don't want to say I was disillusioned with road. I mean, I still love World Tour road racing, but at the same time, I didn't fit in like some of those guys. I wasn't just live and breathe bikes. I was a person who raced my bike, not a bike racer who was a person. You know, if that makes sense. And I did some of those gravel races, and I just realized it was just that light bulb moment that we've talked about in the past where it was like, oh, I can have a lot more fun and still get paid to race my bike. And I think that's why these gravel events are so fun is that it doesn't matter really where you are. Of course, I'm a competitive person and I like racing at the front. I try to win. But it's the reason that these are all big, that thousands of people are joining Unbound or SBT gravel is that the entire race is the process no matter where you are, right? And if you think about road racing, it's like you're hanging in the pack or hanging in the pack, you're drafting, you're trying to keep up, save energy for your best position possible. And if you're dropped, like, you pretty much just drop out unless you have a certain sticking point or pride to finish, which is also amicable, but admirable, sorry. But once you're out of it, you're just like, oh man, I just got to ride to the end. This sucks where it's gravel. It's like even myself, like if I'm out of the back of the race with a mechanical or whatever, there's a whole adventure back there of people who just want to finish with you. And there's fun undulating crucial points in the gravel that kind of, it keeps the adventure going because it's an adventure race, first and foremost. Yeah, I think that's a super important distinction because we've all had that experience at road races. Or I typically look at say some points in the coaching company that we work with and maybe a Saturday or something. It's a big event for the family because these aren't dudes who are 19 and gone to try and make it as a world or rider. They're like family men who are 40 and they're trying to cajole the wife and the kids to come along for the day and they head out to the middle of nowhere for this bike race. And like 20 miles into the bike race, they're dropped. Right. And, you know, they're going to pack Wizz's past, you know, once every two hours for his wife to see and then she doesn't see him in the pack. And then he's kind of left with no marshals on the corner to figure it out his own way home because the marshals have packed up. quite a miserable experience and I remember chatting to Lauren's 10-down on the podcast a couple of months ago and he spoke about the first time he had a gravel race and at the end of it they kind of handed him up beers and pizza and he's like oh yeah what why haven't I been doing this all my life? Yeah exactly I mean Lauren's gets it and I think that's why you've seen him do this and it's It's just that the adventure is the draw, not necessarily the placing. It's about having a supported ride to make you do something more extreme and bigger than you would ever do. And then the festival is knowing that everyone's gone through it together. It's that shared experience, which is a really powerful thing. sounds cliche when you say, you know, that what I just said or that, you know, you have to be there to feel it, but it's really true. Like, I mean, I can tell you how amazing, unbound the former, formerly DK, we now have to start staying unbounded the name change. But it's a, when you're there in Emporia, it's this, this vibe that's just, you feel it, you know, and I can tell you, oh, it's such a big deal. There's thousands of people there. But it's something that you set. And everybody's wrapped up in that together, which is super cool. Do you know what I love about it as well? And this is really from a selfish point of view, but I know everyone has some England that is they can connect with. So as I made my journey in cycling, I got to a point. And for me, it was kind of like a conti level where I was like, without getting super dialed here, I don't think I can push to the next level.

3.Was looking at the rest of my life and the sacrifice I needed

And I was looking at the rest of my life and the sacrifice I needed. And I was like, this just doesn't make sense to me, even the danger to risk the sacrifice. And for a while, I actually taught, because I can't make the extra sacrifice take the risks, that's the end of the cycle and road for me. But it's not, it's just the beginning. It's events like this that aren't focused on the minutiae of the details so much. It just, it pulls people back in who I think were close to walking away from the sport or who have walked away from the sport. 100%. I mean, it's, yeah, it's, there's a time when it's fun to, to dork out on those, those marginal gains we call them, but it's, it's not a lifestyle for me. You know, I, I still want to do other things and, and just really enjoy riding my bike. And, I mean, yeah, you took the words out of my mouth, but it's, it's about the, the fun and the camaraderie I think a great example at the moment I follow your Instagram and is listening to you on toilers podcast and like you're doing the van life at the moment which is something a lot of people love to do but nobody in the world towards doing van life because they're looking at performance and recovery gains. Now, Markel Erizar would be very jealous. He is obsessed with RVs and camper vans and all the other world tour guys that were making a big bucks would always like look at Markel. He's so friendly and everyone loves him. He's probably one of the most beloved writers in the old man he was retired. But you know he was everyone was like really Markle? Like you're making a world tour salary and you just you want to be in a field with an RV and him and Kiel Ryan and myself on track all got it though we understood. Definitely a little bit of a gap from being a world tour pre-medana in a tour bus to a dirt bag camper fan lifer who hasn't chowered in four days in the back country. But I'm doing I'm biking just as fast doing it. So look, I'm obsessed with van life as well. And I think once you get into this, like when I see you getting the van Ted King getting the van, I was like, those fuckers now, like this is the van idea. Because he got sucked into this YouTube hole of just watching van conversion after van conversion. I know we're going to live in a segue for people, but enjoying the van life. Oh, I 100% am. And I was very much against it. It was such a hipster cliche thing to get into early in the year. And I was like, I have no desire to do that. I'll just fly to a place and rent a car. And then COVID hit, and it was the only responsible way to travel. So I went down that wormhole of research. And you realize why it is such an addiction for people. You start, it's about utilizing every square inch of space you can have your bikes fit perfectly and the water running and how you're doing the installation and the electrical and all that. And it's literally a moving apartment and now traveling is fun. So instead of getting on a plane and just flying to a place and that's kind of like the pain in your ass process, like, okay, it's gonna take an extra day to get there. For me, it's a two day drive to the Moab Desert when I did the white rim. And I did that a bunch of this year on my way towards Colorado. And it's, you know, when you stop, you can make your own gourmet sandwich out of your van. And I have a queen-sized memory foam mattress in there. Like you can hot spot if you need to do some work emails or whatever. It's really just, it's comfortable. You know? I know you actually get to see the place because when I raced the US with a stellus, like I'd stay just outside of Chicago. And people would say to me, oh, you've been to Chicago. I'm like, not really. Like I know a little estate outside where we had like four criteria. Yeah, you know the strip mall and like that concrete parking lot area and like the gross the natural grocery next door I was like five kilometers from the Grand Canyon and it was my rest day and I was like, you know, I fuck it I don't want to say it to you guys. So I'm not even gonna go down to the Grand Canyon and I've never seen You know, I that's the same with Europe for me is you know I 10 years in the world tour and you know I can tell you all aspects of rural life racing through these little French towns and seeing the women, you know hang their clothing above the cobbled street as we race under it.

4.I've never been to the loop

But I've never been to the loop. I've never gone up the Eiffel Tower. Everyone's like, oh, you must have seen so much of the world. It's like, wow, I kind of saw a lot of hotel rooms. So we'll like two inches of room to me. Yeah. Yeah. So seeing the US, especially the southwest US, where I've been a lot is so vast and big and then nothingness. I get podcasts such as yours, Crankin, for eight hours after after a little ride and get to the next point and get up and stretch when I want to. And it's been a lot of fun. I've put 23,000 miles. So what is that? Like 15,000 K since June in this van? 23,000. No, it's the Uberway. It's like, whatever, 28,000 or 30,000. Right. I'm doing my math backwards. Yeah. It's like in the 20, almost 30. It's a little over 30,000 K. I work it out like time trials. So I know we time trials 10 miles and the 16 kilometers. That's my base metric for figure middle. Yeah, yeah, we're, I'm sorry, podcasters. We are doing napkin math. Like, why you listen to this? But yeah, so 30,000 kilometers in the band since June. I've been in a car seat a lot. That's a lot. So let's talk about onboarding these lads into gravel, because I think what I've got from the conversation definitely so far is there's There's a lot of intimidation people face going into road. And I think they look at Gravel and think it's this whole beast that's similar to road, but more extreme, but it's actually much more welcoming. And it's a little community going in. So everyone's there together. You know, if you think about your entry to cycling, right? If you're gonna like, if you pick up a bike like many people did during the pandemic this year, the bike industry's never been so healthy. And you're like, I wanna try racing my bike. I'm really enjoying this. I wanna see what I can do. So think about your entry to road racing. It's going to be a criteria, more a time trial. You're going to be in the cat fives. It's going to be sketchy. Probably going to crash in a pile up. You're going to feel like you're not inclusive because your sock color isn't matching your handlebar tape. Or there's all these weird rules. And it's definitely, I mean, and I was at the top of that sport. It's elitist. there's attitude, which is fine. I mean, but then you think about your entry to mountain biking. Uh, you need skills like riding single track fast is hard. Like it's, it's scary. You need some technical ability. So gravel grinding is what a lot of people want with the bike. It's you're getting out there away from traffic away from cities and adventure in the woods. That's a huge one away from the traffic, especially like if you're that in a city at the moment. That's the biggest, but then there's also there's, there's this rule, this overarching rule and gravel, which is you run what you're wrong. So I mean, you know, if you want to show up in a skin suit and a TT helmet and arrow bars, power to you, whatever, if you show up in a basketball jersey and gene shorts, hell, yeah, man, if you finish this beast on that, you get extra points. Like it's just, you know, it's you, everyone's out there just doing the event together and supporting each other. There's no premonitions. And there's no, there's no elitism and so that's what's really powerful about it. It's just you know when I started you know everyone last year at DK everyone was it was myself and Keel riding with Trek and the EF boys Locky and Alex Haus and Taylor Finney were coming and everyone was talking about okay the world tour pros are coming to gravel like are the pros gonna ruin gravel and they thought we were going to show up in with our team buses and our swan years and our full entourage and all that and just like take all the fun and make it road racing off road. And we showed up to have fun. I mean the poor EF boys like they actually wore baggies to like make themselves look even like more like which and I can guarantee you Alex was not happy in his baggies in 10 and a half hours into TK. But you know it was we were there just having fun and it was like like, okay, yeah, like they just, they raced really hard and they raced fast, but I mean, it's still a race in the front and you have a number on, but at the same time, like, we weren't there, like, trying to ruin the experience for everybody. And so we were really inclusive and when I made this career decision, it was pretty powerful. You know, I, you know, I made the decision about, what, 13 months ago now I made it, you know, early November last year. immediately, you know, I started, you know, emailing organizers of like, Hey, like, you know, I'm trying to make a go at this, like show its legitimacy that you can be a pro, a standalone gravel pro.

5.Your events already sold out

You know, I know your events already sold out. It's a lottery to even get in. You know, can I still snag a spot in terms of highlighting your race, bringing some sort of media and attention to it from the world stage, you know, that awesome job for like, I knew who you were in a world or a book like your exposure level. It seems like it's just by 50 since you moved across. Yeah. That was, yeah, that was serendipitous, but it was just right time, right place. But it was a, the community was so open. They were just, hey, yes, that's awesome. I'll find a way for you in, you know, whatever hoops we have to jump through. And then, you know, I met a few of them pre-COVID at some gatherings. There was like a organizer summit that I was invited to be a part of with Cliff Bar as they sent a chef down there as my intro to the gravel tuspeakers scene. And I know they had me doing the dishes. That was like my enemy. And they got a kick out of it. They're like, oh, here's this world tour, Premadonna, who we thought was a little jerk is like, he's doing our dishes. And they just, they hugged me and they said, thanks for coming to our world. Like I think you're going to love it. We are so honored and humbled that you want to do this too. Not that I was a big name by Amy's, but just like, hell yeah, like you're going to enjoy this. And they were so welcoming and it was so fresh. I mean, I don't know. Maybe I know two World Tour road race organizers, right? Like, I don't know the organization of the Volta Catalunya or Peri Nis or anything, you know? It's just kind of something you deal with as a rider. Like, this is the rule book from the organization, we're gonna race. And it's a business transaction, right? And gravel, everyone is holding this thing up together, right? And if one person has to bow out, someone else is ready to swoop in. And I am friendly text conversation with almost any gravel organizer right now, to banter ideas off of, like we're just collaborating. And it's a really cool scene to be in. And I know for a lot of people, concern is on another bike. Like my husband, our wife is going to kill me and another bike. But I actually think, I know you're rocking like some awesome can in the canyons, which I'm very, very jealous of. You can tell us about them in a second. But you could definitely get started on a variety of bikes. You know, people have cyclo across bikes hanging around, which are, you know, there's not too much difference. But even if you don't have it, it's a pretty awesome winter bike to use for the road. And then it doubles as your race bike for Grodo. Yep. You know, these are based off a road platform. They're maybe a little bit heavier, but I, if I had to get rid of my road bike, I'd be just fine without actually road racing. If you're riding road a lot, I'd say 70% of my training is still on the road just because I know it well and I know how. And I just have two sets of wheels on long road trips sometimes if I don't want to bring my road frame. And I can just swap them out either, oh, these are my 28 slick road tires, and these are my 42 chunky gravel tires. And yeah, and I go pretty much the same speed, maybe half a K an hour slower on my gravel bike. I mean, it's very, it's the slightly heavier bike, and that's it, it's an aero drop bar bike. And there's, even if you're just starting to get into it, now that gravel is getting, it's kind of like mountain bikes, it's getting chunkier, and there's some more extreme style events coming. I mean, there's kind of a range between like dirt roads that you can ride with your road bike, which pretty much everyone who rides a road bike has like hopped off road here or there, right? And then there's like old world single track, which is like, if you almost need a mountain bike, you know? And so there's a lot of road bikes that you can fit a 32 inch tire in there without, you know, you won't have much clearance for mud, but just try that and just start riding off road. And like, I mean, that's how I did Belgian Waffle Ride. I was on a road bike for that event. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I won the Belgian Waffle Ride last year on 28th, 28th sea tires. And it's just, you know, you slice and dice and try not to flatten, nurse the bike through sections and then power on the road streets. And, yeah, and then if you start getting more adventurous, which you surely will, then you'll need a bike with bigger clearance.

6.Cyclocross bikes will do it. So what bike are you rocking at the…

But yeah, cyclocross bikes will do it. So what bike are you rocking at the moment? Because I know you're always rocking something pretty caught in edge. Canyon's my bike sponsor. And I currently am on their grail, which for anyone who looks at gravel bikes, the canyon grails that one with the crazy double decker handlebars. What's the deal? That looks cool. But I don't know what the deal is. I know it's kind of a weird thing to wrap your head around at first. But basically, that top bar has vibration dampening, and it rocks front and back just slightly with the carbon flips. So it's actually more rough road vibration damping. And it lends you to get some kind of kooky hand positions for like descending and stuff. You kind of have more modulation and control when you wrap your hands around. If you see a picture of me or anyone descending, like your thumbs are kind of in a different spot. It's a lot of fun, but yeah. And with that bike, I can fit up to 45 tires in there, depending on the rim width. And so, I mean, that's another cool part is I feel like all the original mountain bike trails are also fun in having a renaissance because I was in Arizona in January before COVID and we were on our gravel bikes but we were basically doing all this like original single track from the 90s and early 2000s, like original mountain bike trails. And nowadays on these like super plush squishy bikes, like they're kind of boring. Like you're just kind of like pedaling around in dirt kind of slow. And unless you're like on a rocky descent, you're just kind of like, yeah, you know? And now with gravel bikes, they're almost kind of like the old school hardtail mountain bikes. Like, you know, you're kind of like looping these berm turns and pedaling through them. And you know, you're kind of like, oh, if I push it too hard, like that cactus there is looking kind of dicey. And it's, you know, so it's like, it's also having a renaissance for all the original mountain bike trails that are now kind of bland. It's like, and that's fun again. So that's a good thing. Anyone hasn't got a bike at the moment order in between bikes. Unless you're a pretty hardcore racer and you want a road race, it's more of a utility bike because you can ride road off road for one bike rather than having a straight out mountain bike or a straight out road bike. It's a little bit of a Frankenstein mix that sits in the middle. And you're even seeing certain platforms kind of cross that gap now, like the Canyon and Durace is one where I think you can fit like a 34 tire in there. So I mean, it's like, it's right on the narrow edge of a gravel tire, but it's a road bike with like kind of vibration damping. Like it was kind of originally built like for like Rubée cobbles type of stuff. So it's a little heavier of a road bike with some compliance, but it's very much a road bike that you can just fit a thicker tire in. How much of a skills transition is there for a road you come across, you know, maybe a borderline experienced roadie someone that's got himself up to Katu. So he's ridden a bunch of road races and he's figured out kind of how to ride the pack. And he can descend, he can car on our bodies, maybe not a master. How much of a transition coming across the off road is it for someone like that? It's not. It's, I mean, it's still endurance based, fitness based, pedaling. There's very rarely, really gnarly mountain bike sections. And if there is, that's kind of the highlight of like, oh, everyone's like, okay, what are you gonna do for this section? Are you gonna run it? Are you gonna run bigger stuff to clear it or whatever, but most of it is just, it really is racing off-road and in the dirt, and you're gonna have to practice kind of that the cornering is gonna be the biggest thing. You know, it's making sure you're not sliding out in those loose corners, you're gonna run a lot lower pressure normally to help with the bumps, but also the linking up in the dusty stuff. But also, also like if you do slide out, like the consequences aren't as bad. Yeah, you're not hitting a truck coming in the other direction. Not in a truck, I dirt so lots softer than pavement. So. And it's not a mountain bike experience because every road he'd in the off season goes, oh, I'm going to just go and do a bit of mountain bike and they take that roady fitness with no mountain bike and hands and scales. And they invariably come back with a pretty nearly crash. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. If there's, I know there's a bunch of events and you've supported a lot of them. And I don't know if I put you on the spot and pick favorites, but then I'm also gonna put you on the spot to pick favorites.

7.What's the tree kind of bucket list events that somebody getting into…

What's the tree kind of bucket list events that somebody getting into this? We're gonna travel across to the U.S. Because I know most of the big events are in the U.S., right? Yeah. So pick us out those tree bucket list events for someone that's watching, because I know it's a bunch of U.S. viewers as well, or the viewers that wanna go across. Yeah, I think, well, first of all, before you go across, I would say try to do the Iceland Rift. a lot closer to your neck of the woods. That is a video on that looks cool. Have you ridden there? No, this was supposed to be the second year this year. And it was on my list. I'm in and it got, I had to defer my entry till 2021. So I would either in 2021. I need to email the organizer. All you want to end there you go. You got to bribe them with biking beer. That's their thing. But yeah, you know, so the, the rift is closer to, you know, your euro fellowship. And I think it is already sold out for this year, but you know there's always a wiggle room if you represent a company that would sponsor the event or something, I'm sure there's ways around it. If there are a lot of Americans doing that, you know, that's kind of a lot of Americans race abroad. So if for some crazy reason flying is not open, I think there will be a lot of dropouts. And so there's always a waiting list with all these events. Another event that I am beyond excited about are the rise of gravel stage racing. So, you know, that's... Oh, do you know what was this? Yeah, there's ever anything that I was built for. It's gravel and stage racing. Like, come on. But it's awesome. So basically, Oregon Trail, gravel grinder, is out of the Bend area, which is famous for Cascade Road Cycling Classic, mountain bike nationals they've hosted. Chris Horner. Yep, Chris Horner lives in Ben. So there's one there and then there's also a new one called the Trans Rockies Gravel Royale. That's up in BC. How many days are we looking at? Four days each, they're both four days. And how it's set up is it's basically a camp life slash van life party with point to point races. So that's awesome. You're in your own little bubble. you just have to make sure you have a negative COVID test in the year coming, you know, and then you're not really going into town and eating out. So basically you get this big old Tupperware box, this big plastic box, and you throw all your extra gear, your casual clothes, your toiletries, your sleeping mat, your pillow, or whatever, spare tubes in there, and they will card it to the next site and set up your tent for you, or you have to set it up yourself for less money. And then you race basically campsite to campsite, and then every night there's a group dinner, and a camp for around the fire, and you hang out all night socializing, and then the next day you race to the next campsite, four days long full gravel stage race with the overall leaders jersey, all that stuff. So I'm really excited for those. And there's gotta be a compound that affect the hangover on the tour for today. Maybe that's the handicap, whoever wins actually has to drink an extra beer the night following. And then the last one is you got to try the granddaddy, unbound formerly DK. This is like I was saying, this is just the quintessential gravel grinder. I mean gravel really boomed in the Midwest, in those rolling Midwest hills, the cornfields, the high prairie plains. So that's a get into something like an unbound or maybe the mid-south follows that. That's another big one. Gravel Worlds is one, which is not actually the world championships. It's a very tongue-in-chee. But you get a pirate sword. So is there a central website? In other way, any roadies that are on cycling news, is there gravel equivalents that collates all this information? No, Vella News being more US-based is definitely has a gravel focus. I mean, they do road as well and cyclocross, but it's very heavily gravel focused. And they actually kind of came out with like, to help roadies kind of understand like the biggest and most important gravel races. They created early in the season like the monuments of gravel. So just like the monuments in road, you know, Liège, Rubé, Flanders, Lombardia, San Ramo, they kind of set up the five real babies. And I mean, there's over 700 gravel events this year, pre-COVID in the US alone. Like it's everywhere, right? But there's big ones and small ones, grass roots and prestige. Well, it's cool as well. We've seen this complete flip that it's not Euro-led, it's US-led. Yeah, yeah. I hope it comes to Europe. I want to go back. I know there's people are doing awesome things. I've seen Christian Meyer doing a lot of gravel stuff out of Gerona where I was saying.

8.Feel stuff out of Gerona

You feel stuff out of Gerona. I've seen one or two. I just want to have my oil on September, but obviously with COVID, it wasn't possible to travel. But yeah, there's a couple of cool ones out of Gerona. There's some amazing gravel trails around there. Yeah, I've done a little bit of it just during my road training days. Excited to hopefully go back there and reconnect and is it all the pubs in Jerome I would always miss. But I've definitely got some invites to some UK stuff before the lockdown. So I think gravel is pretty coming pretty strongly to the UK. I mean, Locky kind of put that GB Duro on the map which is extreme. But there's some other stuff. And like I said, I think Ireland, you guys have the potential. You don't even need road permits, you know. Oh, it's common. We're working hard on it. It's common. I'll have something in the pipeline. I'll keep you posted on it. Please do. I would love to do Eileen Brown. Yeah, because Toilerhouse is on this wild Atlantic way. It's like a coastal trail we have. I think he came a few years ago, kind of incognito and rented a bike and no one knew who he was. And he was kind of trying to find his own way around. And he was camped and but then it pissed rain on him every night. So he's had a bit of a miserable experience at points. So he's dead set to come back over and try it again. So we're definitely going to hook up on that. Before I let you go, very last question. So somebody is a roadie at the moment. They're training away with their typical busy dad schedule, I call, of eight to 10 hours a week. How much amendment does that guy or girl need to make to their training schedule to get gravel ready? Not much. I mean, just have more fun to swap in a gravel rider two per week instead of your road stuff. I mean, a majority of my training is still intervals on the road and climbs and all that, you know, it's about just having that, that fitness face. Um, and then, you know, maybe for your, you know, maybe a long ride on the weekend or even your hour spin on Wednesday night, just hit your local trails instead on your drop bar bike and kind of like, suss around the corners and actually just have fun with it instead of like trying to go out and hammer for an hour. Um, and just the technical skill will save you better. I mean, you'll learn pretty fast that sometimes going slower is going faster. because if you go too fast, you're going to be broken and your bike's going to be broken. I think even you talking about winning last year on your road bike in the gravel race, like this is something people don't realize. You have your new Cervelo or Venge. These bikes are performance machines. They're pretty durable. You can take them off-road. You can hit a bumper too and don't break in half. They keep going. I mean, yeah, just look at Roubaix. I mean, the best guys in the world hit these Roubaix hopels, which are horrible. Those things are so gnarly and bumpy and the bikes usually don't break so I mean it's yeah I don't think gravel is anything like a bumpier than Rubée usually maybe a bit more sinuous and twisty but Pete's there it was great catching up again thanks for joining us ah it was so good to talk again thanks for joining me Hey everybody it's Anthony again really quick I want to invite you to join arguably the best thing I've ever put in inside the roadman community it's a challenge it's a challenge called the 14 day Kickstarter challenge. So regardless of where your fitness is at right now, this is going to be the catalyst for making you faster and making you leaner. I've created this challenge to take the guesswork out of everything. It's 14 days of training plans regardless of what your level is. There's masters, beginner, advanced, there's meal plans, shopping list and even a video course holding your hand and talking you true at all. So what I recommend you do right now is just stop everything, press pause on this audio and go to roadmansoycling.com forward slash 14 day or check out the link in the bio that roadmansoycling.com slash 14 day.