1.Today I chat with TJ Eisenhert

Today I chat with TJ Eisenhert. Let's cue that intro! The big question is this. How do we use cycling as a tool to improve our health, our happiness and our long-chevages? That is the question and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Anthony Welch and welcome to the Roadman Podcast. Welcome back to another roadman cycling podcast. It's Wednesday. It is our long form podcast in contrast to being appulsingly named roadman bites podcast. We roll a little bit longer on a Wednesday and today I have a super exciting interview for you. I have Utah cyclist TJ Eisenhower TJ has been US time trial champion. He's won the tour of Bo's. He's won Redlands tour of Hila before taking a contract with BMC, living the life out in Europe, only to realize somewhere along the way that he wasn't living his dream. He was living somebody else's dream. And in fact, for him to progress in this life, a life required him to adopt a personality and a persona which wasn't in keeping with his natural identity. So as soon as he realized that he decided to fork and go in a completely different road, this season he is a part of I would say the leading part of a new gravel program called imaginary collective with some amazing sponsors on board there. And he's also branched out into quite a successful art career. It's a super interesting interview where we talk about manifesting meditation, mindfulness and living in, living in line with your perception of yourself, your true self and your identity. TJ is an absolute dude and it's a pleasure to welcome him to the Roadman Cycling Podcast. Thanks for having me. Super stoked to be on. TJ, I'm looking forward to this. I had a first question planned, but then we were just chatting off every before we got gone and we were talking about meditation and things like that. So I actually want to start there. I think it's a more interesting place to start than the question I had planned. I find when I talk to, I love to meditate and we've mutual friends as well. And we're talking about his love for meditation as well. But I find when I talk to a lot of people that they see meditation as it's this thing that I do for this allotted moment of time, I'm going to meditate for 15 minutes. And that's my mindfulness this section of the day. And so in this one place, my meditation and how the rest of my day goes on. But I feel like the interviews I've listened to you in the past and research for this podcast, that you're someone who doesn't segment, they've nearly moved to another stage of meditation where you're bringing that mindfulness now into your cycling and into your art, which we'll touch on later. Yeah, meditation is, it's always cliche, but it's changed my life. It's again cliche, but it's made me a better person. It's funny. I started at last April and my wife, you know, and last April, I just was a mess. I mean, obviously everyone was with like just COVID kind of hitting and figuring out like, I just started this brand new team and brand, imaginary collective, and you're all sudden, can't go to races and you're like, how am I gonna get paid? And then you're thinking like, man, if people don't have jobs, how are they gonna buy art? So I was stressin' like crazy last year. And I look back and down, I'm just like, man, that was so crazy of me to be stressin'. Those are just uncontrollables. Life was good, I was healthy, but I was stressing to the point where I couldn't go out and enjoy a bike ride because I would just, like in my head I would just run through things and I, like, yeah, just was crazy. And my wife's like, oh, let's go do this. This guy's doing this Wim Hof session at the reservoir. And that's, so it was where you do deep breathing and then you hold your breath and then you release, do that three times. And then you get into cold water, which is around like that water that day was like 40 degrees. And I look around and as like a high end athlete, I thought I was like this like, oh man, I had such an ego, I was gonna beat everyone. My whole attitude, which was just so wrong about it, my whole attitude was to beat people. I was like, I wanna be the last one in the water. I wanna outbeat people. That's a recipe for like the term, isn't it? That's, yeah, that's me, because you're not relaxing the body and you're letting your ego get in the way of what your body and the not living in the natural moment can do. Because when you get in the water, it was crazy. I got in the water and I look around and the people who were doing this meditation with me like maybe five or six other people were probably in their like 50s to 70s. So like elderly people and you're like, oh, I can outbeat them in the water. And I was the first one out and they were in there for another 15 minutes. And I just realized, geez, how weak my mind is. And that I need to do something about that. And with being at home with COVID, you're just like, okay, I'm going to start. I'm not one who sits around or I'm not one who ever uses excuses. I like to just, this is our situation. Let's try this. And I was like, well, let's better. Let's see if this will better me. and I started doing it like 10 minutes, 15 minutes every day. So just like some Harris waking up.

2.Would wake up in the morning

I would wake up in the morning. Like I usually wake up at sunrise. That's no problem for me. And then I do breath work. I do Wim Hof and I, you know, where you like I said, you do deep breaths and then you hold it and yeah, it's really incredible the places you can go. And it's crazy the more I did it, You know, it felt good the first time, but the more I did it, I realized I was actually seeing this place that's there when you're in this meditative state. So from the forced out and first, people trying to get into us. So our similar experience went to a Wim Hof clinic and your sounds way more hard of mine because they only had us in these ice baths for like five minutes. We didn't get the opportunity to push ourselves. But from that then, did you move into like a guided meditation I know a lot of people use like guided apps or did you just stick with the app? Yeah, well the teacher we learned from he was certified by Wim Hof and lived in India and so we were seeing him like after that you know seeing him once a month to do those outdoor breathing and water therapy but yeah I was doing it every day and I just downloaded an app called Insight Timer and it's super great where it keeps track of all that and it allows you to do all these different meditations. And like I said, for me, I really love the Wim Hof because I feel like you can feel all your energy relax as you do it. You know, I like to describe it as like a tuning fork. When you hit a tuning fork and it's like all crazy at first and then it slowly rolls down. That's what our energy is. When we allow it to be the stress of the day, stress of the world, it's crazy. bouncing around us, we're tight, people are tense, you see it. And once you get into this place, you realize, wow, I can slowly like, hear that frequency and slow it down. And it just starts through your body, you start feeling those tingles and it starts slowing down. And then you're in this place, this meditated state. And the longer I was there, I started realizing, okay, I'm here now what? Like you're in this calm place. And then I started learning like I said about manifestation. And I had there like our yogi teacher teach me a little bit more about manifestation. And so I'm like, okay, I'll give this a try. And so when I'm in this meditated state, then I'll start manifesting. And at first I would be like still searching worldly items or still searching worldly like kind of pleasures. I would be like, all right, I wanna sell a painting. I wanna get this. I wanna sign with Santa Cruz. I wanna do this, this, this. And then next thing I know, they're all coming true. And you're like, okay, this is crazy. And so you realize, like, but then you realize like there's more to like, it's coming true and it's that easy. So why am I asking for like, it's not fulfilling anything when I ask for these worldly things, you know what I mean? Like you'd sell a painting and just cause it was at more money, it didn't make me happier. Like what made me happier was when my wife was happy, my daughter, when I got good exercise, when I got the pain, when I got to create, that makes me happy. Or when I feel that I'm in a creative environment. Reversing to the call therapy, do you find parallels between the sort of inner piece you get from the call therapy where you just can't focus or think of anything else, only that moment and writing up the sort of a mountain full gas where it's only the effort that matters Oh, yeah. That's the same meditated state when you're doing, you know, yeah, end of the race and you have a 20 minute climb that's going to be full gas and you can't even you tunnel out everyone. You know, I could chan I could channel that meditated play. It's the best way I describe it is like the movie soul in the Disney movie. when they're in like that place and it's like, oh, okay, this makes sense when you're in that zone. And yeah, in the cold, I fell in love with the cold water, like crazy, because I just crave it now where I take cold showers every day, but I really crave like the really cold, like 30, 34, even like 27, because what you do is you put, You put Epsom salt in the water and that helps it. That doesn't allow it to freeze. Did you make like a homemade like plunge mill? This the yogi here I do he has like a nice ice It's just a freezer and then you fill it with water and then you put see Epsom salt and Yeah, it's crazy how you crave it and it's what I felt like it teaches you is the waters this beautiful teacher where it shows you like like instant stress, instant your body like as soon as it's in the water, every siren in your like neuro system and everything's just like going crazy and you realize, oh man, nothing is actually happening to me. No harm is actually like I'm okay. This is just water. Like the water just happens to be cold. But if you look at any other animals, they just, they're fine. able to turn off that and realize that, you know, oh, wow, I'm actually fine. The cold water is not going to hurt me, you know, and you can control your breath and you start to go into a focus.

3.What I like to do is actually it's called the Kundalini breath

And what I like to do is actually it's called the Kundalini breath. So fire breath. And that's then where you're like, well, exhale and you have to have someone teach it to you. But it actually then it starts a fire from within, like a warmth. I'll start to fill it through your body and you can like there's these monks and I forget where but they actually use You know it has a game so they'll jump in the snow Use the Kundalini breath and see who can melt the snow the fastest. You must ping me on a link to that check it out Yeah, I got I mean I heard it from When I was talking to when that my yogi teacher taught me that breath and he was like Yeah, this is like a game that they would use when you know He was in India or whatever. And like they would just go out and play in the snow and just see who could melt things. And I'm just like, geez, that's hard of core. Like I'm not at that. But like, I don't know. I just felt like, you know, I could talk about meditation and all this all day where I feel like it's been a great tool for me, you know. And do you wish it was a tool you had? So like rewind them to what was it? 2000 and 14 when you won the under 23 time trial championships. Yeah, I think so. Do you wish you had or do you think your career in the road would have been different if you had like meditation back then? Yeah, I felt like if I would have been practiced in this breath, I felt like I probably would have been unstoppable. Like on pretty like pretty went because honestly, if there's one thing I think any athlete should be doing, it's this high end breath work and meditation. Because when you're doing this breath work and meditation, like I said, you can start to feel your body tingle, and that helps your body's bloodstream and help lactic acid, everything move around, help recover. And also when you're doing this oxygen, you're inhaling more oxygen. So if I would have done this prior to that time trial, you just said, I think I would have won it by three minutes. Like that's not me being cocky. It's just knowing how strong And just also knowing because I was practicing a little bit of manifestation then and you know, where you'd met you and also where I would just go out and train and I'd just be like, all right, I'm going to win the time trial. I'm going to win it. I'm going to win it. I'm going to win it by a minute in the hat. I'm going to do so many wads. And that day when I, it was like when I want it, it was just like, oh, yeah, it was written out for me. You know, it was like, of course I'm going to win. And so how do I practice this meditation every day where I could have, you know, you're meditating on, oh, I'm gonna win this race, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna then move up at this place, I'm gonna, you know, it's, and just again, like I said, the breath work before prologue and time trials allowing you more oxygen in your lungs and body because it's crazy, through this breath work, I'm able to hold my breath for four minutes when you're in these meditated states. And if you're able to do that, That means your body is oxygenated. And then if your body's oxygenated before doing a big high end effort, like, you know, how they get like a kind of smokers cough after a hard TT or a pro- A call for sewers cough. Yeah, you want to get that because your body would already be oxygenated at a high level because you are doing that heavy breathing prior to the, you know, and even also in the peloton. back when I was in the peloton, and people kind of be easy, trying to look like easy breathing, like, oh yeah, just breathing through my nose. No, you should be taking deep constant breaths. Like I've never seen sepp course, like sepp course, like right in the final. The dude's barely breathing. I'm like, yeah, he looks like he's on his own too, right? Yeah, I'll have to talk to him because he likes to come hang out and stuff in Utah and all of them do some meditation with me. But that's honestly like I do tell I coach some guys and I tell them like I'd rather them do the minute that 30 minutes of meditation or the 10 minutes of meditation than get in the ride. And it's crazy. They don't you know they don't get like no the meditation is actually more important than that ride because it's going to, like, when you do that meditation, it's going to then make you more motivated to go on the ride. It's going to make you more focused when you're on the ride. And it's going to, like I said, oxygen at your body. So then you're jumping on the bike and feeling great. So looking back with sort of this meditation as a tool, if you're looking back at that kid who was national time trial champion. man, we would not have been friends. He would not have liked me. It's like, can't happy how it's all turned out. Or did he have a decision? That kid would not that kid would not be that kid would be feeling sad for himself. Like, Oh, man. Oh, no, racing world tour. Blah, blah, blah. Was it all about world tour, then? Yeah, I didn't care about anything else back then. Like there was and I had sacrificed.

4.Was like, I got to sacrifice everything

I was like, I got to sacrifice everything. I was super over-driven like it was just like man that's just wasn't who I was meant to be you know And even though I was talented with it, it just wasn't me you know, I was not ever meant and That was just you know the quicker I realized that Was then the quicker that more success came and more doors actually like yeah, I always described it as me Trying to like swim up a river rather than float with it You're in the right river with cycling. I love cycling. I love bikes, but I'm in the wrong direction. And as soon as I did that, all of a sudden Santa Cruz was knocking out the door, ever of these big companies. And it was like, wow, I'm way more happier. They see who I am or as a person. They allow me to, they see that my artwork is way more valuable than my cycling. They see that I have other things in my life that I pursue and prefer, and also that I prefer, you know, just the enjoyment of the ride. So when I go to events, it's about making sure others are having a great time as well. And I'm just kind of this like happy, good, you know, hype man, you know. Do you have to be all in for World Tour? Oh, yeah. Did you quote a man with balance now? Oh, no, no. You see how everyone is training now. training with your training camps either you know most of the year or a high altitude camps or your training on your bike you have to now be training like five hours average basically I feel like in date they're training at a high high level now where like you see just every year it's and it's it's not going to get any easier if you think about it because they're just going to try to get faster and faster and faster and so that just requires more and more attention to detail. And for me, I didn't want to put all my cards into one thing. I wanted to, like I said, I like waking up in the morning, going right in my mountain bike, then heading over and doing a mural in my city and then coming home and working on a painting for a client and then going off and doing a road ride or going swimming with my family. There was just other things that I prefer to do. Did you have this epiphany while you were like, when did this epiphany take place? Was it like you're still chasing that world toward a dream of contracts and you're starting to see like, I don't fit into this world? Or is this I've run out of opportunities here. Now it's fine myself. Yeah, I mean, there was always kind of that feeling I felt like where I felt like I would make a decision. And then I would fit it, then it would just be like, Oh man, that probably wasn't the right one, you know, where like choosing BMC or going with Axlmerx or doing this or that. And so like there was all the ways like that kind of in your mind where you're like, I don't know, you're playing with that. But the epiphany really hit me hard where it was like, man, I'm chasing a dream that's not even mine. You know, like it's just like when you're a child, you grow up around your family or you grow up around like, you know, I don't know, whatever, whoever supports you and you know, I helped you achieve your dream or you know, motivates you or like for me, cycling was a common interest that, you know, me, my dad and brother could all share it. So therefore you're bonding over that like crazy. So you don't really know that like, oh, that's actually like this goal of world tour and the Tour de France is kind of this like group dream. You know what I mean? Or this? And it's like, you think in your mind, it's your dream, because you do love cycling and you do love it. But it's not, it's not your total dream, because now I'm living my absolute dream. You know, now I wake up and it's like, it literally feels like how a child feels like when they're like, all right, whom, like, what friend am I going to go hang out with today? What am I going to do? Like, am I going to ride my bike? Am I going to paint? Like, it literally just made my life where, you know, I could almost live like a child and, you know, enjoy life rather than work. I think it's so silly how people are like, oh no, you need to get a job so you could put money away so you can retire. And that's just what you have to do. And it's like, well, I already feel like I'm retired. Like I can sell paintings till the day literally the day I die. I can ride a bike almost till the day I die. Like I hope I do. You know what I mean? Like I, why would I get a job that requires me to sacrifice more than half my life to then just have the last final 20 years and have a bank full of money? You know, it's like, it feels like for me the really fun part of the journey of cycling is, you know, when you get started at the very beginning and you just don't know. how far you can go. And it's like, oh my God, I can win a local race. Oh, I can win a half two race. I can win a cat one race. Oh, I can get to go abroad.

5.Can race in France. I can race in Belgium

I can race in France. I can race in Belgium. But it gets to a point where as you step up each rung on the ladder, the level of commitment needed to get to the next rung increases. And at some point, the trade off from me anyway, just wasn't worth it. I'm like living in France and I'm missing like my sister's share day, my mom's dad's anniversary. miss a mic graduation and I'm like, what am I doing this for? Like, do you have a similar experience without words? Like that squeeze of that. Yeah, that was the year. Uh, man, 2018, uh, me and my wife had just gotten married and I just found out I had a two year contract and then I just found out that the team had lost a sponsor. This was, and so then that no, this was with him, Kathy. So they had then just lost the sponsor, so then that made it so they didn't have enough money so then they had to cut everyone's contracts. So then you went from having a contract that was awesome to then something that was like, wait, what I performed, I did all this. People forget like I was 12 at Torv Croatia with three people testing positive the winner of that race. So like, I was, you know, people put all this pressure and like, I was top 20 at tour of California and I even had a crash and I outside of like the 3K one of the sprint days and I was with the Egan Bernal winning. And I didn't even have a climbing team to support me. So people think like, oh, no, I had the results. I again, I just didn't have the personality. I'm way too open and I'm way too controversial as well. So that year in 2018, I was just like, wait, I did all my work and why did that get cut? I felt like if someone should not get paid, if there's a reason I should not get paid, it should be my own fault. It should have been that I didn't perform or that I didn't come through. the fact that it was someone else not coming through, I was like, wait, that's not fair, you could do that. And so. And now window right there between like what you're saying, because as you're going up the level, your dedication needed, it's getting more and more and more and more. But if the amount of cash you're making isn't commensurate with that, because the risk is getting higher as well, like there's a lot more chance of you getting hit by a car crash and like. Yeah. Well, we had worked hard. I just got married. I had just got married and then we just found out that we were gonna have a baby. And that's when it really hit me. That day you talk about the epiphany where you're like, all right, no, I'm tired of this. That's when I found out my wife was pregnant. That was the day. I was like, you know what? I'm tired of relying upon others to do what I can do. And I'm tired. So I was just like, I'm gonna figure out a way that I can be home more, that I can paint and that I can still ride my bike and get paid to do that. And I put that next year. To get to that point, did you have to go to a point of maximum despair? Like when you're out when Europe would be MC racing in Belgium, are you in a dark place? Are you starting to hate the sport? Or are you making these decisions? Oh, yeah. I hated the sport. I hated the sport like every day, basically. Like it's literally felt like just this, again, like I said, a river you're swimming upstream. Like, and you just, you know, when I'm living in Europe, you know, And it sounds like crazy or like always like that's harsh, but it's like, no, like I love the sport and I love that there were days I surely loved it, but most of the day to get out on the bike, to go train and do all that work, like to do all that. And it just, for me, I just hated it. Like, and it just like, it started getting worse because, you know, it just wasn't enjoying to me. And I look back now and I realize like, man, I just was honestly way over training. You know, I wasn't allowing my body to rest. then, you know, and it's like, it's just a young kids mentality living in Europe, racing for a BMC, you know, a Belgian kind of team and thinking, oh, the more you train, the better you're going to be as well. You know, and I was still a kid. Like I, you know, you're growing, you're still developing and to be over training like that. Like, you know, I didn't need that because then I'd show up to races and be way too You know, but I always wanted to impress my coaches through training peaks, you know? Yeah, crazy. You would think like by the time you get to the level of BMC that you have invoisers around you, coaches around you that are just saying like take it back a bit. You're going down a road that so many riders have gone down before of over train and under eating over race and underperforming. Yeah, but I mean, they don't, they don't care because there's so many other cyclists that and like you're just another fish in this, in the pool where it's like, oh, if you don't work out, they got it someone right next to you. You know what I mean? They got so, so it's, I mean, again, I'm not trying to ever like, I don't want to make it look like I'm negative or like negative about because like, I'm not like, I'm super stoked about everything I did in my past.

6.I'm just super grateful for like all the opportunities I had and the…

And I'm just super grateful for like all the opportunities I had and the people I met. Like I called up my S1 year from BMC the other day. And we just like, it was so phenomenal to talk and catch up. You know, and I told them like, we probably have a better time now than when I was then. And I was so like tight, you know, and so like paranoid and not so about cycling and weight and all that nonsense. You remember your numbers from back then? Like what sort of CTL were you rocking back then? I don't even know what that is. You're not into the dark at all. No. And I just love the writing. And even now, I'm pretty good. I'm pretty good at cutting out information I don't need. So why do I need to know that information? Even if I didn't know that information years ago, I don't know what it is. I cut things out of my mind that I don't take up the space of my creativity. Do you write me? No way. I don't even write with a computer now. I just will turn on Strava on my phone and just put in my pocket and that's the most tech I get. Yeah, I don't. Just because I know that's what killed. That was the reason I hated the buy. Because I'd go out and ride and one day you'd achieve such beautiful numbers and the next you couldn't or a few next week you weren't able to or and you'd always then look at yourself like I'm just like you do that's the issues you you achieve a number and it's not you realize oh okay well I can do more let's try to do more and so you're just constantly searching for more and that you realize like now like I said it doesn't give you any satisfaction or like it doesn't make you happy. And it's like, like I think back now, and I'm just like when you're in the kind of in the real world and out of the cycling bubble and you realize like, man, like nobody even cares if I walk up and tell them like some stranger, oh yeah, this was my power number up this climb. I have the fastest time up this climb. I'm just like, you know, what, but like someone does care when I walk up to them and we have a great conversation about like my artwork or life or, you know, what they're up to, you know what I mean? Like, you know, to extend that one, TJ, like I have world tour guys on the podcast all the time. And like they're in this very tiny little incestuous cyclum bubble. But honestly, like general public, maybe excluding, you know, people are a die-hard cyclanerax. No one gives a fuck that you were top 10 in the three days of the Panya. like nobody nobody I don't have a job now because I won races I didn't win any races last year I don't plan on any winning any races in my future like if I do that would be sweet and very lucky you know like I would that would be awesome but that would be crazy lucky like and the thing is like people don't follow me and people don't you know like what I have to say on social media or like what I'm doing because of you know races I won or how fast I go on the bike and I I realized that, I realized that people were just really following me in life who I was or wanted to support me, whether that be sponsors like Monster or Santa Cruz, because they love the person I was. And they love the light that like when I was truly being myself, it just shine. You know, it was amazing when Santa Cruz approached us, you know, me and my teammate Andrew, and they're, you know, the guy at Santa Cruz told the big boss, like, You know what the best thing to do for these guys is just like give them the bikes and just let them be free like Let's not because like there was this debate whether to put us on the factory team They're like us cup racing team. They're out like that's with Keegan Swenson and Tobin. They're all out in Arkansas racing right now and so there was this debate to put us on that team But that team is just more geared towards racing and performance and our side of like the reason they wanted to get us was to be kind of just more creative and be you know that kind of more free-spirited and to show the people like, oh this is you know like, I don't know, you care more about the good, I felt like when I, it came time to me approaching these sponsors to start imaginary collective, I you know needed to think of a reason like Okay, well, I can't approach them and say like, you know, because I want to win this race without race like, because then if you don't, they're not going to sponsor you the next year. Well, talk to us about this idea of redesigning cycling. So this is your sort of phase two in your cycling career. It's the quote there a minute ago, which I thought it's a nice way to someone up like you're not racing to win anymore. It's about the journey and the laughs and the stories along the way. And is that what you mean by reimagining and redesigning cycling? Yeah, I felt like we were really marketing high-end sport to everyone. Like, only there's out of 99% of people, only 1% knows, okay, that this, you know, point, like, you know, those little minuscule things the cycling world would promote, you know, or the skin suits or, you know, it's like, you walk, you go around town and you see just a local person rolling a TT bike with full disc and TT helmet.

7.It's just because the guy at the bike shop, you know, the cycling…

And it's just because the guy at the bike shop, you know, the cycling world sold him on that. When that guy would be way happier on a gravel bike with fatter tires that he can go and be totally free with, you know, a bag on the front and actually enjoy. And I just felt like instead of targeting the people that, you know, really want to win and everything. Cause I just felt like they're already doing that. They're stripping bikes down of paint. They're making them all black and just carbon and like, yeah, they're fast and stealthy. But like, I just missed like the math. Hey, you know, I missed like the expression, the personality and, you know, for me, that was a big thing. And it was funny cause yeah, I saw you talk to Corey Williams and when I was, yeah, I've known them since I was, you know, since Corey started racing, we started racing the same year because we're same age. And we've always raced against each other, you know, and when I 2019, my final year of racing, I contacted them at the beginning of the year, and I was talking to Justin that whole spring about joining Legion. And just because I really believed in their project, I just, I mean, they started all that, you know, they started that creativity and that, you know, And I was like, well, it started to kind of hit in me when I did Dirty Canza. And I was like, I love gravel. I love this expression. I love showing up to this event that thousands of people are at. And they're all just here loving to be here. Like they just love in riding bikes. Maybe 10 people out of those thousands will care about winning the race. The rest just care about the good time and the journey that it goes through. And you meet so many people. And I realized like, wow, me just riding and meeting people is a bigger impact than me at the front of the race solo winning. I'm connecting more dots. And that allowed me to then I was like, I contact Justin. And I was like, I'm just going to do my own gravel thing in my own vibe. And it's so fun. We talk to each other. When I go to LA or someone, I hit them up. And like, you know, they're just always inspiring in where it's always getting these talks about new creative outlets and new, you know, vibes because we're just trying to make the sport, I'm just trying to make the sport just fun and inviting and more artistic rather than performance, you know, or, you know, and just people feeling overwhelmed by that. I want them to just jump on their bike and feel cool and just go ride. So talk to me about art is another passion of yours. Talk to me about where art and cycling meet because it seems to me cycling is, I don't wanna say completely devoid of personality because we do have some great characters like Saigon and it's funny the Saigon's work seems to be- Vanderpol? Vanderpol's a good character. But then we have like, you know, Quintana is a shit character. A lot of the Colombians are pretty- I mean, that's interesting to me. I don't wanna ever talk, I said, negatively on people or talk ill on people's character because people are like, if the world was full of everyone like me, that would be a pretty terrible world. Or if the world like, there just needs to be one me, there needs to be, you know, and there needs to be one this person. And it's like, like I said, like people in the cycling, maybe not like certain people's But then like I said, I would never I don't want to talk negatively on people but I Just think you know I like I'm not ever trying to be like a character to be a character But like I think a lot of people think I rather rather than like talking negative about character I think it's unfair about Cantana and Bernal maybe because it's a language barrier thing But if you look more so at what any else do or a team's going where they're actually Stripping personality away from Reuters. They're cutting the way Yeah, any liberties they have in the press. And we're just seeing like, it's nearly like Empire Strikes Back. Like you're getting from the Yeah, but those riders also, you know, that's just the sport. Like those riders also signed that contract. They knew what they were signing into. And those riders also are getting compensated. So if those ride like a lot of people, you have to like, you know, like I said, it's a hard discussion because I think, I think in the world tour, it's hard to not have that. You're gonna have that where it's more serious about numbers. And for me, at the beginning, I was thinking like, oh man, the world tour needs to change this. And it's like, yeah, there's a lot of things the UCI needs to change, they suck. But the world tour, like, the world tour is just always gonna be a race. And to think that it's not, it's silly, you know? But it used to have a bit of panache. Remember Marco Pantani, like, rockin' the bandana and stuff, like, there was some panache to it. We lost our way somewhere. cocaine. Those guys were doing cocaine then, you know, so you're gonna. So he still had a bit of better. I'm just saying that's like the culture of the sport and the culture then was a whole lot different now. I mean, like you said, you were talking to the young athlete the other day, and that young kid is like too sleep probably by eight o'clock, you know, like his schedule is probably up at seven, eating his oats, on his bike by getting dressed by nine 30 riding at 10, like, you know, their schedule and that's just the life because they can't mess around like the writers used to because or else they're gonna be dropped before the flag.

8.Said the training is so hard now that you have to take it that…

Like I said the training is so hard now that you have to take it that seriously and so like I realized like you can't be mad at them for not having energy. I mean maybe they could be better with interviews for sure but also like if you're going for characters or for more fun or for stories or life like you just need to know like, oh, I need to go to a gravel event or I need to watch a cycle cross race or a mountain bike race or You know like if you're watching a road race, you know, you have to realize you're watching something that's alright The brakes gonna go Peloton is gonna roll like they're gonna chase them down the climber You know what I mean? There's always gonna be that little bit of panache now But the racing is so hard that they can't like that little bit of slip you know, they can't allow that because then they're getting dropped. So is the space we need to move into instead of like your amateur dentist who's 45 years old, instead of him trying to, you know, buy the Pinarello prints and look like, you know, one of the the Innios boys. Yeah, hopefully we get that move for instead of trying to turn into one of the Stormship Troopers, he's starting to pick those gravel role models like like yourself, Ted King, beat step. Yeah, no man. I mean, that would be, I like I said, I don't, I'm not trying to be literally, if there's one thing I just want people to know about me or like me is just that I'm trying to just be myself every day. Like I'm not, I'm not trying to be like, Oh, I need to post this to be this character. So people can follow me or I need to be this character at a race. It's like, if you're meeting me, you're meeting me. Like, I'm real. I'm not authentic. Like I'm going to have a real talk with you and chat. Like I'm easy going. And I've learned that vulnerability and that openness through meditation. And like I said, once you have, like you, you know, you like you said, I have just no negative energy anymore. So like thinking even about the road scene or like, oh man, maybe I don't even have space for that because that takes up space in your mind that takes up space where then you can't be as creative. and you can't be as happy. And like they always say it, like the moment you let free of like, okay, I like just, I don't have any control of that, or I don't have control of like, then who cares? You know, just focus on your life and be you. And it's crazy that you show up. And I think people just like me and follow me. Or like, you know, follow me on social media. It's stupid to say like, I don't even have any followers. But like, I think people will just maybe respect me in the way. It's just because, like I said, my honesty now. And like I just, it was kind of walking a different path, I think, which is always interesting because we don't know where it's gonna turn out. It's new experiments that we have in recent. Oh man, I might not even be encycling in like a couple of years. Who knows? You know what I mean? And that's a beauty is I'm not afraid a lot of people, you know, get really terrified about what's next or like, oh, what am I gonna do after sport? You know, and I get that. But for me, I just don't have any fear. Like I just know I'll be good at whatever I'll do. Like it's not hard to be good at whatever you do. It just takes putting in the work and the time. Like if I wanted to show more. How much does that discipline and experience? How much does that transfer in across your new artistic process? Oh that, I mean, yeah, the discipline I learned through cycling and through sport, you know, but I was learning discipline when I was a child through sport, through baseball. You know, I remember being like eight years old and throwing baseballs for three hours. And so it's like cycling wasn't all of a sudden, you know, this first thing that taught me a lot more discipline and it really showed me like, and it really showed me now that, okay, the more work, the more days you ride, the better you're going to be. If you ride every day, you're going to be better. So if you paint every day, you're going to be better. If you do a podcast every day, you're going to be better. If you just put the work in, it's pretty simple. You're going to be better. You're going to be shitty at the beginning and you're going to suck at the beginning, just like anyone does. And that's the part everyone can't get over it because they can't get over their ego and realizing that, oh, I'm going to suck. Like, for me, I know I'm going to suck, man. Anytime you start something, that's what you have to know is I'm going to fail. It's over time that you get better and over time that you've built something that then people look up to you and are like, wow, how did you get here? And you're like, man, brick by brick. It's the first question. Save by day. It's the first question. You're retail in your cycling where you took something beautiful that you loved and you took it to an extreme and you grew to Asia. Is there a cautionary tale there for now that you're embarking on an artistic journey? Yeah, I mean, I just know that feeding one source drains all else.

9.Have to balance. So I just know that back then when I was only…

You have to balance. So I just know that back then when I was only feeding the cycling source, I was killing off everything else. And so then you think, well, we'll make you happy. And you think that you're doing the right thing because you feel like, I'm sacrificing and I'm doing this. And it's like, no, you should have a balance. But again, I don't ever want to sound like I'm trying to tell someone what they're doing or try to tell people that they're not living right because I've found what works for me and it's been working amazing and I love life and but I would, I'm not ever going to, you know, preach that because I really realize that through meditation, like preaching is just, it's almost like you're trying to fill their heads. Like they'll find it when they need it. if they don't find it. And like, you know, I think the contrast works super well, whether it's like, I love to ride my bike now. I don't have to ride my bike every day. But if I'm stuck on the computer, if I'm recording podcasts, if I'm indoors, I love that contrast to getting outside, riding my bike, even if it's pissing rain. But if I have to ride my bike every single day, that's the thing that becomes the monotony. And then now the contrast is I actually likes it and then I'm watching Netflix. When you're too all consumed with one person, you don't have that pain pleasure contrast to give it a perspective. That's where I've come into a lot of problems in the past, whether it's been excessively studying for years and then just losing the love for reading. Now I'm able to find that love for reading again because I'm not forcing academia down my throat. Yeah, man. Yeah, no, I, yeah, that's definitely, I feel like just the biggest thing for me was, yeah, just not, you know, strangling it all with one thing. You know, I'm definitely balancing it out and doing so many things that it, I mean, that's like my studio. It's full of more things than just, you know, canvases. And I'm always doing more than just painting. I'm always maybe coming up with designs or thinking of other ideas or thinking of creative ideas to do marketing or thinking of, you know, I've realized that as an artist, it's not just doing something creative, it's doing it creative every day. It's just being you. Like, that's what's so funny is being yourself is being an artist. People just put on a mat, like, well, I mean, they put on masks now every day, but for, but, you know, metaphorically, put on this mask of like, oh, I have to do this. And it's like, no, every, all of us are artists. It's just knowing how to express it through our daily use. You know, me doing this podcast is a work of art. Like, it's art of, you know, conversation, you know, and it's, if I'm investing myself in it right now, and I'm in it with mentally, you know, aware everything, then you're putting your energy to make it great, you know what I mean? It's not like you're coming on here and and reading a script like, oh, it's noon. All right, I gotta do this podcast, roll through it. All right, that was great. Like asking questions, doing this, this, this. Like, man, you just gotta let it flow, you know? And the morning. It's very, because every podcast I do almost, like I've got a couple of pages of like questions and prompts there. I literally haven't asked one question off that page yet. No, yeah, I, you know, that's, I try to get, it's hard. I try to get a lot of my guests on my podcast to like open up like that. And I can get a lot of people too. I feel like that's kind of a power or strength I have is to make someone feel like if I can let someone know that I'm vulnerable and they can see that I'm open, then it's crazy the things people will tell you. Like it's wild how then open people will tell you and things they'll open up about. I mean, I've been out on rides and you know, you'll be out with these like grown ass dudes that are super tough and then next thing you know, They'll be like telling you really like emotional story. And it's like, you don't even know maybe that guy for that long, but like just because they can see that you're open and that sure, you know, you're this ball of energy of receiving, then people open up and it creates relationships and bonds that then are just beautiful because people then can trust you, you know, and they just know that you're always being yourself, you know, rather, because you can see it when people are like trying to like be someone else and like you're like, man, you just need to chill. Like I know that's not you. And what's quite the feeling for me with the podcast. And I suppose I want to respectfully your time and I'm gonna take too long. We'll wrap it up on this. You just you never know who it's you know, I don't want to say inspiring because it's almost a little bit corny, which you're never sure who it's touching. Like I get Instagram DMs and one only like a few months ago from a cyclist who had had a bad accident and he was in a wheelchair and he sent me a message saying like your podcasts have really got me true my therapy in last few months and I was just like blown away like I no idea that that something I was recording in a room in my apartment could have an impact on somebody at such a pivotal moment in their life.

10.Man even if it was two people listening to your podcast like that's…

Man even if it was two people listening to your podcast like that's what people forget is like they always think oh I'm gonna I can't save the world or I can't help the world because like it's too big or that's like like no you should just be focusing on the people you are talking to you know the people that are in your world like if you only have 10 people that are listening to your podcast every week but they're listening like those people like you know what I mean that it's you never know like and you just need to touch one you just need to inspire one person like that's the thing is like if you're talking you know I'm a big big like, you know, supporter of peace, love, positivity, talking about depression and helping people with depression and suicide prevention, you know, because I just believe like we need to talk and, you know, love each other, you know, and like, it's crazy just, you know, this, you know, will just be too caught up and we don't want to talk or we don't want to express ourselves fully, I feel like. And yeah, it's just... I think it's especially a problem in podcast land and social media land in general, because we look and we've even referenced it in this chat, we look at a wit score, like how many downloads that again, how many followers do I have? That's like the wit. That's the wrong way to measure it. We should be looking at depth. We should be looking at, well, what's the impact that it's having on each individual person? And the fact that like, if you had 500, 500 people listen to your podcast, let's say it's an hour long, that's 500 people that gave an hour of their day to listen to a stranger. And to me, that's just insane because if you just think about how valuable an hour is to your day and again, and you're, you don't know people and it's like, again, you never know who you'll inspire and affect. Like, you know, I'll always talk about peace, love positivity, you know, and you know, people messaged me and be like, Hey man, like I was having a lot of negativity, negative thoughts or this, that, you know, and you know, you just being this positive. And it's like, I realize, you know, this is not me being arrogant. I realized that there's people that do listen to me and follow me. So I might as well use that as a tool and use that as like spreading positivity, you know, and spreading good rather than trying to just like show them like someone I'm not, you know what I mean? Like trying to just pretend like, Oh, I'm this. Yeah, I don't know. Just speak. TJ, we could talk all night before I let you go to us a favor, give a shout out. Where can people follow you on Instagram? What's your podcast? Yeah. Yeah, just give my Instagram a follow. It's just TJ. I'm hurt. And then my podcast is the next stage. And that's like on all the all platforms, like iTunes, Spotify, stuff. And then yeah, I just gave like also on, you know, on Instagram or my company imaginary collective, if you want to keep up with that. But yeah, and I just appreciate, you know, the time and having me on, man. TJ, it was brilliant to really enjoy chatting. I'm definitely gonna get you over to your for a gravel race now. Yeah, man, that sounds so fun. That would be, oh man, I can't wait. I really wanted to do the Iceland race last year, the rift. That one looks super radical, but yeah, I can't wait to be traveling like crazy again. Thanks for chatting with me. Radical, man. Have a good one. Bye. Hey everybody, it's Anthony again. Really quick, I want to invite you to join arguably the best thing I've ever put out inside the roadman community. It's a challenge. It's a challenge called a 14-day Kickstarter challenge. So regardless of where your fitness is at right now, this is gonna be the catalyst for making you faster and making you leaner. I've created this challenge to take the guesswork out of everything. It's 14 days of training plans, regardless of what your level is. There's masters, beginner, advanced. There's meal plans, shopping list, and even a video course holding your hand and talking you through at all. So what I recommend you do right now is just stop everything, press pause on this audio, and go to roadmansoycling.com forward slash 14 day or check out the link in the bio that's roadmansoycling.com slash 14 day.