Robement, I want to chat with Ed Viel
Robement, I want to chat with Ed Viel. Let's cue that intro! The big question is this. How do we use cycling as a tool to improve our health, our happiness and our longevity? That is the question on this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Anthony Welch and welcome to the Roadman Podcast. Rodeman, welcome back to another Rodeman cycling podcast. As I've been saying in a week, the dust has settled, how long does it take to dust to settle out from the summit? But it does feel like it's still settling for me. It may be just about to find its final resting place of settlement. I got great feedback this week on a lot of the interviews, but one in particular that I got a lot of good feedback on was this interview I'm about to give you guys today. It's with my friend Ed Veal. Ed is one of the best crit racers in the US and he has been for the last decade or so. He has the world's travel, the world's sorry, he's with 24-hour record. He's the former Canadian error record holder. He's a national member on the squad for a team pursuit or at least he was back in the day and he's currently on the front of the Canadian tandem which is a powerhouse bike. It's a super fascinating interview on the mindset and what it takes to win. You know, we race sometimes, you take a one day classic and you're looking at almost 300km of racing and at the end of the 300km of racing there could be half a millimeter separating a winner from a loser. Is that physical? I would say not and it also contains that it's not physical. There's something else What's going on there? Does it, winners mentality, is a winning edge? That's what we talk about today. What is it and how you can cultivate it? It's a brilliant, brilliant chat, so I hope you enjoy it. Before I dive into it, I'll ask you all to head on over to patreon.com. It's patreon.com forward slash Anthony underscore Walsh. That's how I support this podcast and it's super important to keep that momentum going on the patreon because we've got loads of cool things in the pipeline for 2021. So I wanna keep building on the community we have over there. The secret podcast going out to the community was a little bit delayed this month because of the summit, but they're gonna be getting another secret podcast this week coming, and then another secret podcast in about 10 days after that. So it's a really good time to subscribe because you're gonna get that Dubo Kwame secret podcast. Okay, I've pushed it off and off without further ado. Let me present to you, Mr. Ed Veal. Happy to be here. Ed, good to have you back. Oh, great to be back. We're gonna talk about racer's mentality, Ed, when I was putting together the summits. I list the true, all the riders I know, all the riders I don't know, world tour and order wise. And I thought there is literally not one man on the planet who I would want to trade mentality with, except for you. Wow. I was like a pretty stacked group of people who've been on this podcast. So I don't know if I believe that, but I'll take it. Thank you. Yeah, it's just any time I've trained with you or any time we've raced together, it's left an impression. And I know we had periods where we raced against each other. And I remember being on the start line, thinking, I can't come at 80% today. I can't come at 90%. I need to come at absolutely 100% and then maybe I still won't win. It's funny you say that. I remember years ago being on the start line of Centurion, there's a big race here in Ontario, Canada. And I did an interview and I don't even remember what I said. I guess I was fired up and I got everybody like pretty wound up. So Steve Fleck the announcer here goes over to the other favorite Bruce Bird and Bruce, he's like to the crowd, he doesn't even, like Steve says something about Bruce and he's like, you see that there he goes, nobody wants it as much as Ed Ville, right? And he goes, and I hope you guys know, you know, the idea of what's to come. Cause you see what's, you know, like he just told you, And I'm looking at Bruce like, wow. And I remember thinking like, am I really giving that off? I know I got from Otto, but I'm like, he's the other alpha apex predator. It's me and him going down in this thing. And he was very clear to tell if anyone didn't understand, they didn't get the vibe. They're like, that's waiting for you. Right when they say go. And I remember thinking like, then it's working. Whatever I'm doing, it's working. So that's what I want to try and get into today and on Pac. and for anyone watching this summit, I wanna give them a little bit of that. I know you're gonna have to give away a bit of your, your secret sauce, what makes it great in this. Like we've all had teammates, friends, competitors, you look at them under great trainers, and then they get into a race situation, and they're not great racers. It's almost like they like the swanin' around and taking pictures in cycling kit on Instagram, but they don't like the four hours deep in the rain when it's hard, but everybody's hard. What separates it too? I guess that is a great question. Okay, so, you know, I think it's like, what do you want from this? Like really, what are you, what are you trying to get from this? Okay, and if it's identity, then you can fake it. You know, you can throw some photos up and tell everybody you're a cyclist or whatever, but, or do you wanna go after the other guy, or the other group, or the other team, and do you wanna beat them on their home turf, or do you wanna send them home, or do you want to put your flag on their territory?
It's like I've arrived, there's a new Boston town or whatever it is,…
It's like I've arrived, there's a new Boston town or whatever it is, you know? And I think that's very clear. So I was very much like that. I got on the scene and very quickly was like, I want to make this mine. I want to kind of own the territory. I want to show up to races and I want people to know my name and not because of a t-shirt or a nice flashy car, my bike or whatever, it's because we went head to head and I got my bike across the line before you. And that respect, there's nothing greater. I've lost so many races and I love the guy that beat me. Love him, okay? Love or hate him. Like I've had these deep, deep rivals, but the idea is to respect through the roof. And I knew that. And so that feeling I had for those riders when I was losing a lot of races and the My Early Races is what I wanted to earn from my opponents. Like how do you build that? So when you're in training every day, like when someone's watching this now, Some people don't know you as a person, but they've just raced against you. They've seen the results, they've seen national teams, they've seen your arrow records, your crazies with challenges. And they're just thinking, this guy is a different species of human. Is this is the mental element something that you train every single day? Or do you just like do you roll through zone two sessions like the rest of us? Like do you show up like every day like I've arrived? That's okay. So I've been asked this a lot. So a lot of the stuff I do, I'm aware of it now because I've had to share and answer questions and I'm coaching and telling. I'm trying to teach people. But some of the stuff is just me. It's my makeup. Okay? So it's hard for me to say, why do you brush your teeth with your right hands? I've always brushed my teeth with my right hands. So why do you get on a race or a ride or a training thing and visualize dropping somebody? I don't know why. But I do that. Okay, so I picture vividly when I'm in the, it's very specific. Okay, so not often am I in there? If we were in out for a coffee ride, yes, I'm in the moment I'm chatting with you, we're going for coffee road, enjoying riding a bike. But if I'm training, I'm training for something, okay? And I'm thinking about it, okay? And I'm picturing it and there's a reason, okay? There's an actual reason, even if it's made up, okay? It's like so and so's got on my nerves, I'm going to dummy this guy today. Today I'm doing 500 intervals because when we get to that point, I'm going to be ready to ride this guy off my wheel. Done. It's almost, I listened to the latest Lance Armstrong documentary in work of the Turkey for Turkey and I know where else sick of hearing about Lance. But he was saying he almost used to invent enemies because he needed that when he was out trying them. He's like, so and so really has taken me off. I'm going to bury him. And he said he would try an all winter to bury this dude for an imaginary girlage. So I didn't hear that but I do that 100%. And that's what I laugh at myself sometimes too, especially with Zwift. I mean it's just a video game. Like I'm online, some of these people are not real. Some of these people are like I look them up afterwards and I'm like so some six-year-old guy in Poland made me die on the bike, lay on the floor, starfish and he didn't even go over 130. I went 95, but that's the best thing is that if you can trick yourself, so now that grudge or that moment, I do that. I do it 100%. Whether it's a KOM, the guy that has the KOM, it's like I start building up whatever I'm not. He's going to get a message. He went out or whatever tailwind he had or the group where he had on, or somehow he did it wrong or somehow, and now I'm going to make it right. I remember years ago, you might even remember this. I think we were having beers in your parents' house. We were talking about training. And you had something that I'm not sure if it's like a mantra or how deep it impacted you, but I know it impacted me so much, especially after I took the break from training, I came back. You said you got to wake up and earn it every single day. Yeah. And I remember thinking about when I came back, so I went because I put on some way I hadn't really written it 18 months. And I just thought about what did I do to get to the place where people looked up to me where I was able to crush lots. And I was like, now I've got to replicate. That's all gone. Now I've got to err in it. I've got to channel my internet here. I've got to get back on the air and this every day. Every day I'm going out the door, that still resonates in my head when it's, you know, the weather here is off and pissing rain and it's not nice to try it in. And I just walk out the door and I'm thinking, no, I've got to err in it again today. Yesterday's My session is gone. Okay. So this is not my saying. It's something I heard and gravitated to and made it my own. It did become my mantra. We put on T-shirts. We said it all the time. This is the truth. And I think there are people out there that if they go and drop and do 10 push-ups, they think they'll always be able to do 10 push-ups or 11 push-ups or they'll always be able to do 12 push-ups. And it doesn't work that way.
Only reason you did 10 is because you did 10 and then tomorrow
The only reason you did 10 is because you did 10 and then tomorrow. But you will, if you took some time off or stopped doing push-ups, they're going to get harder or you will only be able to do nine or you only be able to do eight. You only be able to do seven. So I really believe there's like a, you've got to stay at this. You don't get to hold fitness. You don't get to hold strength. It's either going up or it's going down. That's it. So if you're at it every day, you just keep putting in the bank, increasing. And after all these years, whoever hasn't heard of me or what's listening is like, I am an old man. I'm 44 years old, I get it, okay? But I've had a streak now of 14 years of compounding fitness. Calm, right? Week after week, month after month. Like it's, the craze, the bass is massive, okay? And that's because of getting up and doesn't, I don't rest on what I did last yesterday, okay? People bring up like, you know, oh, you've done so much. Why are you still doing this stuff? I'm like, the same reason when I first started, I'm hungry man. I'm still got shit to prove. I've got stuff to do. I haven't even come close to what I want to do. They're like, but you've done all this stuff, isn't it enough? And I'm like, it will be when it will be. When I wake up and I want to train, then I'm going to get up and crush it again today. So it's every single day. And I believe that in my soul, I'm so glad I heard that saying, and I'm so glad I became in mantra. You've done some crazy stuff on Swift. You've done the error records, and you've had a bunch of these challenges. But when I think about you, I still think about one of the best crit racers in North America, one of the dudes that I just want at the end of the lead out trying to deliver. How much do you, when I think about the challenges in a race, so there could be weather, tactics, competitors, I divide these things basically into two lists, things I can control and things I cannot control. And I try to give so little energy to the things I cannot control. I can't worry about competitors, I can't worry about tactics. I can't worry about road surfaces. The stuff I can control, I focus on it. And I focus on it almost exclusively. I focus on my tactics, how I'm going to use my energy, when I'm going to eat, how I'm going to dress, how much do you make that division or that separation between those, what you can control and what you can control? Well, I mean, when I go to a crit specifically, I mean, I feel like I can try to control the situation. So whether it's some bravado or you know walking with some swagger or putting it out there with some energy, there's you know those people that aren't supposed to be there will pick up on that and realize who I'm not supposed to be here. Okay and the other guys that are on the same level or whatever they don't even flinch. They're kind of like hey come on up to the line or I've seen you before. Yeah they're picking it up they're putting it out too right so I'm feeling that as well. So that right of the way I try my best to intimidate or or show or, you know, control is something I can't with my opponents. Now in the race, it's the same thing. You know, I put effort into owning a spot in the group. I put a lot of effort into it and I do it early. Okay, so one is physically, you know, wherever you are in the starting gate or wherever you're, you know, you get to where you want to be and then you've got to own it. Okay, so this is again, this is very mental, this is physical. Your legs are burning lungs are in, but it's like, you're gonna move around a bit. You're gonna push your way in. you're gonna make sure people understand and then you gotta earn it lap after lap. It's the same thing. It's like you're going to say, hey, to everybody without any verbal communication, pretty much fuck off, this is me, this is where I'm gonna sit, situate myself and I'm gonna fight for this. And eventually, and it does happen, they just, they're gonna go like, oh, okay, yeah, I guess this is my spot. And everyone just sorts in where they're supposed to be. Okay, isn't it? It just becomes that point, you know, when it's not worth the fight, when there's someone from to me and you've tried to know your mouth 10 times, He's tried to nudge him out 11 times, but he's just kicking back on you. There comes a point where you're just like, this is important. So how do you decide when you finally say, okay, yeah, that's enough. You know what? I think you test people. I think I test people all the way up the line. So I get into the pocket where I think I'm going to operate. I operate in the top 20. I'm not sitting any further back in the top 20. I get to the top 20 and then I test people. I'll maybe nudge someone through a corner, I'll lean on them and see how he responds. If he twitches and he pulls for the breaks, I'm like, he's mine. That's right. That happens. He's mine. Yeah. And I keep getting up to someone until I get to someone like you and I test you. And maybe you bounce me back. And then maybe I go, okay. Okay, well played. Well played. Let's go again. Let's go again next morning. Yeah, well played. Yeah, you meet your match. And then you've soared into where you're supposed to be. And I can name all kinds of guys that, you know, I go, I go one spot ahead and then all, it's the same guy he gets back on me.
Get one spot ahead and he comes back on me
And I get one spot ahead and he comes back on me. And eventually you're kind of like, I trust this wheel or this is a good wheel. Or this guy's in the, is one of the favorites. Or this guy's going to do well. I can, he's giving me every indication that, whether I'm six feet behind him or like, you know, one bike length, you know, this is where I need to be. Okay, but it's, all he takes is one mistake, one something that just triggers me to go like, yeah, I'm not my guy. Boom, I'm out and I'm nudging him right back. Okay. That stuff can be non-verbal. It's like, it sucks. He's wearing it's the way he took a corner. It's, you know, he just doesn't look right. There's something about him. It's nearly like- on energy. This is why you're all that stuff plus energy. Okay, you're looking for a diaphragm, he's dying, you know, or it's just the way they sit on a bike. Okay, the way they glance over the shoulder. I can, when someone's shoulder checks or whatever, right away I can tell whether they're, they know where they're supposed to be. Okay, it's like, is this guy a fighter pilot, or is this guy the first time he's flying a plane? Okay, like, as soon as someone's like, you know, this quick jerky thing, get up next, I'm out of here. Someone is, you know, If someone's turning their head, looking you in the eye as they're rolling through the corner, and looking back and like, oh, okay, you're all right where I'm supposed to be. But you know what the present thing is? When I got back, I take it and basically go to two years away from any sort of proper china. And when I'm in decision to get back, everyone's like, oh, we'll build through the winter and get back. It was mid season. I was like, no, I'm back now. So I'm in terrible shape. But I'm just showing back up. And they're like, oh, you're going to start back a cocktail. I was like, no, of course I'm not starting back a I got two. I'm straight back into a cat one race, but I'm in a race and I'm maybe like 100 dudes back in this race. And I move up to 99 and then your man passes me again. And I'm like, what? Like I'm a top 15, top 20 guy. I need to be up there. And then I get this realization going, you know what? I've actually found my place in the bunch here. I'm my fitness level. I'm a 99 guy today. I can't get up past 97. I can get up to 97, but then I'm back to 102. And then it's always in that. And I'm like, whoa, it's Darwinian. It's a pecan order. It's new league. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing about like back to mentally. That's got to be so hard because there were times where you were at the front, off the front, leaving the race, driving the pace, like all that stuff. OK, so I've been in those races where I am from form or travel or just messing something up or racing back to back where I'm dog shit. OK, it's not. I'm not every day am I walking around with bravado and putting it out there. days where it's like, I can't do nothing. Okay, and I got the pedal to the metal and I'm full gas and I can't advance and I can't move and I don't care what look you're giving or what, you know, I just don't have it today to be where I'm supposed to be. Okay, but the cool thing about bike racing and confidence and experiences, you still got to go through the motions because anything can happen. Okay, so some days you're the hammer, some days you're the nail, but even from 50th or 99th, miraculously, if you weather the storm and that's the storm, you know, like, and that's, Sometimes you're like, oh, it's just not my day and you give up three lots in. I do not. I'm like still going, hey, I've seen crashes happen before. I've seen lots of stuff go down. Somebody, the pace can't keep this way. Like if I'm dying here, even in my state, somebody somewhere, half the group has to be ready to tap out. These are the mental things that I tell myself. Truth or not, delusional or not. I've been in so many situations where almost all the time when I'm ready to quit, I know the race is about to blow up and half the field is taking a knee and tapping and going, yeah, I'm out. Okay. And more often than not, it happens. And then I'm like, you know, still breathing like a fat kid about to die, but they, you know, I'm now I'm, I'm now I'm back in the top 20 because 30 guys are chasing, you know, we were talking off air before we got started because this is such a difficult topic, racers mentality because so much of it is non-verbal. And so we're trying to verbalize and articulate that, which is mainly non-verbal. we were talking about, I was saying, I have two China partners, both identical physiologically, one's a killer, one's not. And you just hit something there and it triggered in me. As soon as you said it, I was like, never quit. You're like, you don't know what's gonna happen, you never quit. It's such a common thread among really high-achieve and boy-croaters. They never quit. If I think about all my teammates who I really respect, they've bad days, they've good days, but they never quit a race. Well, this is the thing, I think we, you've got this history book and yourself of things that you accomplished and things that went well and things that went bad and things. And I have a bunch that where I'm like, I've won races after being dropped, okay? Like they're not a lot, but I fought back into the race and I swear it's the craziest thing, these epic stories where you're like, and it ended up turning out that I had a mechanical or whatever I chased back on.
Got dropped from the group because the chase killed me
I got dropped from the group because the chase killed me. I got back in again. I'm holding on for dear life. I think one of my first experiences as a Cat 3 was that I was in a break of four guys. And the whole time they were like doing all this. I never pulled once. And I was dog crap. They just kept dropping me. And they'd be playing around. So I'd get back in. And then they dropped me because they were chasing. I was a non-factor. And we came around the corner. And I just won the sprint. And so I'm on the podium as a Cat 3 flexing. These guys didn't even think, because they'd already dropped me probably 10 times. I'd already been off the back so much. They didn't even think of me as a, and so that was deep and early. That was one of my first race experiences. And so I'm like, yep, right to the end. I could have quit, I could have packed in, I could have went to the side, but I kept fighting and look, I got on the podium and got a five dollar medal. I think the Never Quit has just so important. When I think about that's something that's just been ingrained in me, I never quit a race. I think I've only quit races in ambulances. Like if I'm quitting, I'm getting carried out here. I don't even ever electrically stepped off the bike. No, I make this deal with myself. Because you know when the race gets hard, every race gets hard, and there's always a point where you're thinking, this really sucks. Like I'm at maximum heart rate, this really sucks. Like there's a thousand places I prefer to be right now. If you have that like get out, if quitting is an option, your mind will start looking for reasons to quit. But I think when you resolve and you say, there is absolutely no chance that I'm quitting today. No matter how hard this gets, I'm not quitting. It has to end eventually. No one can make me suffer indefinitely. But this is a thing. And this is what I learned like early. When I got up to Cat 1, I spent three years being competitive every day. Every race I went to, I was in the top 10. I was everywhere but I couldn't win a race. Three years of that. And one of the reasons was that quitting thing could be more of like, you're saving to finish. I must finish with the group, or I must finish this race. And so you're not actually giving everything. So are you quitting? Yeah, when the shit goes down or where the split goes, or you know it's this point, you're kind of like, ah, you don't gamble. You don't go for it because it might get potential that. I might not roll in with the group, or I might not get my 10th spot. It took me three years of that. So let's say we point. Yeah, so 80 races, say. 90 races, who knows? 30 a year. Think of all that, that's a lot of losing, okay? And it took me a really close guy to me to tell me, hey man, you need to dummy a race, go to a race, race it like you don't have to finish, okay? Don't worry about finishing, send everybody home in a body bag, okay? And then with five laps to go, finish the race. Just pull over and watch the finish, okay? And that was one of the best things, you wanna talk about a tip? This is something I only share with the people that pay me, okay? So here's one of the secret tips is, And it's someone else did it for me. So this is the thing I'm passing along. I pulled over, I went to a midweek, I wrote it like it was my last race on Earth, I made sure I, it was, you know, in my mind, you know, it's years ago, but in my mind, it was like destroyed the whole race. And it was the hardest thing to pull out of that with five to go. And when I watched, what I watched was, it was ridiculous. It wasn't even a sprint. Guys limped across the line. It was the whole rate. Like it wasn't even, there was no like, and I remember it was an eye opener. It really was like, if I race like that every time, I'll just clean up the scraps. It'll be nothing but shrapnel, and I would've won anyways, right? And so that's how I race now, okay? It's a great tip because I think people do gravitate towards that comfort zone. I love to, I better not attack because maybe you're attacking, I get dropped. Yeah, there's lots of guys around here, and I'm sure you have them too, where they blow things apart and because they're not so technical or savvy, people are on their wheel, and then someone nips them at the line, okay? So they do all the damage. They do, they race like with reckless abandon. They're complete savages. And because someone is a little bit more calculated or understands momentum or can draft like a master, you know, they get their rewards. And so what the cool thing is, I had that. Those three years of being that guy. And then I started racing like, you know, the wild guy. I think that's the mix. There are days when I line up and I am not the hammer, okay? There's someone else swinging and I am begging for mercy. I get to switch into that mode, okay? It's like, sorry, dude, you're going pole for pole or you're like, you're showing off here, I'm gonna take your lunch, okay? Like it's obvious. And then there's other days where I show up and I just have good legs or whatever. And I'm, you know, it's like, catch me if you can. I'm gonna rip this to shreds and, you know, only the five guys here that can handle this, we'll do get out at the end. But it's embracing the suffering.
All you're talking about there is, it's been comfortable with being…
Like all you're talking about there is, it's been comfortable with being uncomfortable because none of that is nice. Like there's not one part of that when you're imposing yourself on the race or when you're following, whether you're a hammer or a nail. Like race is hard, and I think this is the part that so many people miss. They think they're not at the level because they're so for enjoying the race. They're too much in their head. They're thinking about themselves. And this is the triathlete mentality. You're just racing yourself. You're just racing the clock. It's me versus the course or me versus whatever. I know we think like that, okay? Back to what I said earlier. It's like when I'm dying, when it's hard, it's hard for everybody, okay? That's, I'm racing other people, okay? Like when you mention the hour records, I'm sure, sure, I gotta do that too, okay? A paced effort, you know, we're talking about watts and numbers and cadence and all that boring scientific shit, okay? When I line up on the line though, that all goes out the window, okay? I'm racing other people. So when I get internal and I'm like, oh my legs or my lungs or, oh I'm running out of energy or I don't know if I'm gonna make it, okay? Like somewhere inside me, this monster, this demon, the savage, slaps my face and go, Hey man, you've done thousands of races. Everyone's thinking those thoughts. Do you think those are original thoughts? Look to your left and the guy that is cross-eyed. Look to your right. And that's what I'm trying to teach people. It's like you're racing those guys. That's where you want them. Let me get this straight. So you're at a point here where a bunch of guys are about to tap, you included. Well, that's racing. Okay, that's what racing is. It isn't like this Instagram photo where you look great and clean and everything's so flashy and you're just motoring along. No, you know? And you know, that actually reminds me of a great point. You're talking about stuff you shared, something you hadn't shared. Only with a client of a training partner. He sort of came up and he went on, got some pro contracts. We went to stage in the Ross and the world. And still, he got very good. But I remember having a conversation about training one day. He was super strong. I was in the break every week in the Cat 1 races. But he just, he couldn't make that jump from being the super strong dude in the bunch to getting into that really select group. And he's like, how do you get into the break? And it was one of those things trying to verbalize something that's really difficult to do because it's a sound, it's a smell, it's a fear, it's a look. And I kind of summed it up to him as like, the moment when like the spit is like dry to your face, you're looking around, your legs are screaming, you can't breathe and you're saying to yourself, I fucking hope no one attacks right now. I was like, you gotta hit it with everything at that moment. Because if you're thinking that, everyone's thinking that. Evan, it's against everything to do that. Okay? Like that, just give me a second recovery. I just need a couple of, you know, it's like, no man, this is what you worked for. You found it, you got right in the meat of it. Like everybody that's in the thing is, I didn't understand that, it took me a long time to understand that. And I get why people don't get it. Okay? But one of the points, one of the races I had early was, I remember my body just shut down. Okay? And it was an eye opener. is like my body failed before my head. And to me, that was awesome. I was like, let me give you this shirt. So it wasn't my head deciding or wasn't my brain making a decision where I was like, no full shutdown, like lock up, complete like, it was an absolute pain. I remember my quads just ripping two shreds. Like, yeah, I was like, and so to me, I was like, huh, I don't do that training very often. You know, huh, interesting. So I found the limit in the race. Like, why should we actually train? You know, I need to extend that. I need to find that. I need to go harder in training, so I never feel that again. But right away, it was like my body failed before my head. And then it made me think about how many times, okay, so all these other times where I thought I was at the limit, it was all my head. You know, it's all like neck up, you know, not neck down. I always think that when I'm at the limits, I always think not. What you think is the limit or what your brain is telling you, it's the limit that's 60%. I was like, you've got 40% survival left there. Like your body's telling you to stop now because it doesn't want to end up like on the floor with no oxygen. But I'm like, I'm happy to navigate that space. So it's that 40% is the like the space that I try operating where I'm racing. I'm like, I want to bring the race to that 40% because there's so 95% that race don't want to be there. Most people want to operate in the other 60% that's crazy. Oh, I don't have a bike race today. And I always think of that it's the dude common that's hoping for an easy race. You know, the guy that's going home in the car. And we've all had teammates like it under like, oh, I hope it doesn't start too hard today. Or I hope that's what I want to just, oh, off the line, four guys. Because it's just that punch in the face straight away. Okay, so think about the framing of that, okay? That is back to the mental prep. Okay, you were talking about showing up to the race.
For whatever reason, just like you explained there, go to it going,…
I, for whatever reason, just like you explained there, go to it going, this is going to be the hardest day of my life, every single time, okay? And so if it's a shade lower, it's wonderful. like a friggin mountain bike racer, like a cross race, like to the whole shot, I'm like, whoo, because I was prepared for that. I mean, that's the idea. I'm going there thinking all the time saying, this is going to be a nightmare. And so that's what I'm preparing for. And if it's not, I'm going to make it one. And if it is, that's, I think this is the hardest sport. I really do. I love it being the hardest sport. I relish that we are hard men lining up for the hardest sport in the world. So when it's not, it's kind of like, well, how do we separate the cream from the crop? Well, someone's got to make it ridiculously hard. And then I like that's the whole idea. And so in those moments, it's not like, you're committed to, even where it me saying this, I gotta back this up now. Anthony, I've been talking like this for a long time. So imagine me going to a race and not and saying someone heard me say like, Oh, it's easy today. No, never heard me say it. You know, it's the other way around. I wanna cut the fat. I wanna trim the fat. I wanna get rid of all the people that aren't supposed to be there. When I met at USA Crits down in the US, sometimes I get off the front or do something to wake up, to get involved, get the blood flowing, to hear my name on the announcement. It all feeds this crazy guy. It's not great on a file. A coach would be like, oh, you're wasting energy. I'm like, no, no, no. That kick started my, that got me in the mode. Like you have no idea. Now I'm firing at all cylinders. My brains engage, adrenaline's pumping, everything's going, oh yeah. And we started with 100 guys. And when we roll around and they say there's 60, I love that shit. Okay? Like that 30 guys out of the race. Like to me, that kind of stuff. And to try and teach that, that's what I want someone else to do. You know, it's like go there, put your print on the race, you know? You're animated a bit, you know, with reckless abandon and you tell me how it goes. or sit in the back, feel things out, hold on for dear life and then maybe sprint it out at the end. You tell me which one sounds better. I had a teammate here, Sean Lacey, and any Irish viewers or any Irish viewers, although he is. He's been one of the best riders here for a decade, prolific winner. And I was lucky enough the last four years of his career got to be on the same team as an every single race, regardless of where you're racing, like local cut one stuff, or if we were stepping up and racing the higher level stuff, he would go full gas off the line at the very start. It made no sense, 99% of the time he was caught. He had some astonishing wins where he wasn't caught off the line. But his whole mentality was he just wanted people that were kind of limping into the race and going, oh, I was gonna play golf, but I decided to do a boy grace. He's like, boom, I'm gonna punch them in the face straight away and say, I'm here for a boy grace. I'm here for a boy grace. So Anthony, think of that. So many people can't wrap their head around about that was wasted energy. Or why did he do that? That was like, that was not smart. How many people put on the back foot in that race? How many people now are going like, Ooh, I better conserve. Or wow, my heart really got a little high there. Oh, my legs, I'm not feeling very good today. How many people, like the punch in the face, just like they're nuts, just shriveled right up. They just now they're out of the race. They are not going for anything. They're not putting themselves out there. They're kind of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, mentally. Not physically, mentally, you gotta go. I need to, maybe tonight it's not my night. It's brilliant. It's brilliant. Okay, and so the race series we do here on here midweek, there's many over the years, there's been a few guys that did that every week. And you're right, you're kind of like, I knew it was coming. And those first couple of laps were absolutely crazy. You know, and we prep for it. We go like, okay, you know, for years it was a guy, Chris Freeland. Chris Freeland is gonna go from the gun. We know this, okay? He's done it 10 times in a row. He did it all last year. He's going from the gun. He's gonna light things up. The first couple of laps are gonna be lights out. Okay, you know what we'd say is like, one, I love him for it, okay? We know, like, kind of I love him, hate him for it, but who is countering him, okay? That's, you know, you wanna talk about Savage? It's not like we all roll up and we catch Chris. I want him out the back door, okay? I want him to never do that again, okay? So someone, if it has the ability, you're gonna roll up, the group's gonna go, and you're gonna counter him as hard as you can, and hopefully Chris is out the back door. We need to send a message, you know? And then there's other guys to be doing it too, But that's back to the mentality, okay? There's many times it wasn't me. I was dead. Those first couple laps, and it took me a while to get started. And I knew how hard it was to be. But the feeling of when I could counter, trust me, the race always went our way.
In my mind, what delusional or not, or like I'm thinking back in the…
In my mind, what delusional or not, or like I'm thinking back in the past, if we countered and blew things apart, there were people that were lapped. I remember seeing shrapnel after a couple laps, that they never even made it into the fourth, fifth lap. And the rest of the group, it was like they were eating out of the Palmer hands because they were like scared shitless of like, I can't do anything because if they counter like they did to Chris, it slides out. It's all about nearly impossible. So much of it's about imposing your stamp and get that little mental edge. As you're speaking there, I'm just thinking back to time from preparing the leadouts for Reuters and you've a lead out trying to start on the left side. And I remember just thinking, right, they're a good lead out trying, but I need to get this mental edge straight away. So you're rolling up with your lead out trying and ask for a man on the lead out. You can look across and you can see he's kind of stressed and you're like, I'm going to give no sign that I'm stressed. So even though you're 650 watts, you're going to hands off the bars, stretch the back, maybe kind of look into pockets, see if I have anything. And he's looking across a nine times out of 10, he buckles. Because he's like, this dude hasn't even held the bars yet. He's not even trying. I'm at 650 watts. I was thinking in my head, I've 30 seconds left at this pace, and he hasn't started. And then it's like, boom, we have control of the front of the boy craze. Maybe I only have 15, 20 seconds left that that's been as well. But he doesn't know that. Exactly doesn't that's right and so you got it you got to put it out there And if you're if you're bluffing and that's that's poker, you know That's the idea and they can't see inside you they can kind of see some tells or where you know You're like I said your diaphragm or breathing your body language and that but yeah, you got to go for it when I when we were in the Ross Race with team Canada, you know, I that was a lot of my job was being like the bulldozer on the front Okay, and so fighting for guys, you know and just being a bigger guy or I love that role I love that role, but you're intimidating and you're trying to protect your guys and as soon as you give me the role to like Look after Remy Pelcheywa who's this little guy or whatever, you know, it's like I'm the big sheriff now Right and so that's that is a role, but you come against the other guy. That's that's his role And so you're pretty much going up against yourself. You got a little bit of Okay, what are you doing? You know like okay, how do I even get the situation where that's me right beside me? That's the guy on the opposite team that's got the same role and it's it's interesting man But that's you got to like that stuff and that's how you find that role in the team Not everybody on the team like the lead out or like to be on the front or like to find But I can tell you back to the USA crits. I go down there alone So I'd be lining with you it's UHC train would be seven along and I'd be by myself And then there'd be the smart stop team Okay, there'd be all these trains lining up and I'm by myself. So what do you do? You do sit there and go okay. I'm gonna sit 14 guys back. Nope, right? That's not how I I want I want everyone to know that You know, I'm legit and I'm for real and how do you show that you battle the train? Okay, and the chirping and the names and you know putting into the barriers and like bumping and all this stuff Like you can do that lap after lap and I can tell you that there were times where I Ship my pants and got the hell out of there. Okay, you know Carl Menzies says do that again. I'm putting in the barriers You pretty much go. Okay Carl. I'm out of here. I'll be pulling into barriers. He's a scary deal Yeah, he's a big guy. He's been doing this a long time. He's giving you nothing. And he's saying it in his Tasmanian, he doesn't talk. So if he says something to you, fuck off. Oh, that kid's not a mouthy guy. But I mean, Andrew Penfold, I remember him saying, my name, I was a big deal to me. Andrew Penfold, I'm my name. I was like, oh, I cracked the, so this is a big Canadian, a longtime Symmetrics writer, awesome crit writer. He's on the United Healthcare. And I come up in the train. and he's pretty much saying to one Canadian to another, like fuck off, Ed, get the fuck out of here, you know? And so one, I'm like, check the box, made it. He knows who I am. Two, let's see if he's gonna do it. And yep, absolutely. It was like the next lap and boom, shut the door. And there I am. I'm like, wow, that wasn't friendly, you know? What it is, how do you learn how to do that? You gotta put yourself in those spots. And I know lots of people never even try. Would never even try, you know what I mean? So. So Ed, I think this is a good place to finish up. I've been a team of yours and I've been a team of great writers and I've picked a little bit up from each of them on race day routines. What's the mental process? What's the go through from the moment you get up to the moment that going goals are the announcer says it's go time. What's going on in your head and what are you doing? I'm really adaptable and I think I'm ready for Plan A, B, C, D, E and F.
Go in with a general idea of what I want to happen and it's very…
Okay? So I go in with a general idea of what I want to happen and it's very quickly like staging. We're talking about like back to crits. I started simple. It's a, it is a process, but first thing is stage properly. If you're not going to call up, make sure you're getting a good spot. From the clip in to the first couple of laps, like I'm thinking about positioning immediately and establishing myself where I want to be. And positioning is everything in these races, everything. And you've got to own it and it's constantly changing and you've got to fight for it all the time until it kind of sorts itself out. To get ready for that like super aggressive start, do you have like a mental ritual you go through before the gun goes? Or like at what point do you get switched on? At what point do you go from I'm going to go around the car park and to chat to people, everyone's friend, to I came here for a reason. Let's get switched on. Like I see you this year where we race together in the Velodron at the World Championships on the tandem. And I could see there was a point boom. Ed's not talking to anyone. It's tunnel vision, the blinkers are on. It's gold on it. Yeah, it happens. I don't know. I think it's instinctual now. It just happens. It's kind of like, if I were to sign up for a Zwif for it now, all of a sudden I got to go to the bathroom. I didn't decide. I got to go to the bathroom. My body starts going like, oh crap. I know it's going OK. Empty, empty, or whatever. It's the same thing. It's like as the time starts ticking down, I have it's such dialed. It's not like I put on music. It's not like I. But what you just said, I do look around. I like looking at the other guys. I like getting, when I go sign in or whatever, I do roll through the other team's tents and stuff like that. I go see my buddies, right? I do just all of a sudden, there is a switch. I don't think it's conscious though. I don't think it's like, I don't say to people, okay, now I can feel it and I think everyone else can feel it. So whether it's 30 minutes ahead, I do, you're right, it's obvious. And everyone said that to me. Like I just change. and it's like serious. And yeah, I think everyone should be like, I don't like when my guys are still joking around and loose because I'm going to war, or I'm getting prepared for, like I said, the hardest thing. I'm my brain, I'm really sorting out all the different things in my head. I wish I could put it in better terms to say like, do this, do that, but it's not fun. Fun to me is, I just, I don't know. Like what would you do if you were gonna storm, you know, a castle. You don't think of medieval times? You know? I've seen it with different writers and I know it's myself, like different personalities get switched on at different times. So I remember as the national team manager this year before race, I went to Manchester for a 4K pursuit. And he was like, be it the velodrome, tree hours before. And then he's like, you know, you need to start warming up. What are you joking around for? And I was like, okay, chill. Like, whatever about track prep, you know, tires, chains, all this stuff. I was like, I'm not an expert on this stuff. I'm just coming new in the track. This bit right here, I've done it a thousand times. I was like, I know how to get ready. Yeah. mentally and physically for when you say go, it's go time, I'm ready. Yeah. I think different writers think to switch on, like I've seen guys where like 60 seconds before the race, they're still joking around, but then 10 seconds before the race, boom, don't talk to them. It's, they're here to kill. Yeah. It's fake. I am too. If you like, sometimes you might see it, like I'm, you know, I'm talking to whatever I'm bumping this guy. Hey, how's it going, whatever, waving or like, yeah, yeah. I'm so switched on. You could look at my eyes, it's like they're glazed over. That, even with the tandem, even with Lowell, connecting with my blind athlete or whatever, I'll tell them, OK, I'm not into small talk anymore. All the updates and all that cool back and forth, if it isn't like helmet shoes, you've got your caffeine, you've done your dynamic warmup, you've ran the stairs, that's it. I'm switched on and if someone were to come up, I mean, I'm not like a cyborg where I wouldn't acknowledge them or what, but it's not the same. It's, you know, full gas, like focus, focus, focus, focus. I think as a chat-through list and we've tried to articulate what's very difficult to articulate what makes a killer from an also-ran. What I'm getting, time and time again is from me and you, that so much of it is just repetition, repetition is repetition. repetition, it's doing this thing. You haven't done 50 boy graces, you've done 5,000 boy graces. So many people think, I can't get that like I can't find my way into from 10, I'm like, well, many boy graces, you don't, they're like seven. Yeah, but what you this thing, you were saying the same thing. So yes, practice and experience and those situations, but even from our early spots, like knowing you belong and what it's going to take for you to belong. Okay, I go to the start gate. And the same thing, I like what you said about like the coaches asking me to get in prep, you're like, got this, no, no, no, that's something I trust me. Don't you worry about my prep. When I'm at the national team thing with those guys, well, I'm surrounded by all these knowledgeable people, they do not worry about my prep.
If I haven't earned that, like they let me be, no one has to come up…
Okay. Like if I haven't earned that, like they let me be, no one has to come up and say, Oh, it's 10 minutes to the warm, like, like the look they'd get be like, I'm taking this way seriously than you. My name is on the, you know, like, I'm, you know, like, Like if you think I'm not, I'm going to miss the warm up or somehow not be like, that would like, rot me to the core. So it's like in training and practice showing up on time, like it's, it's the same thing. So I've always runs on the board years of this. It's like, don't, don't question my prep. Okay. And that's the same thing with the, the, the walk to the line. That's why you can walk. I'm going to put your bike wherever you want it. You know, it's like, please someone tell me I shouldn't put, you know, in the races I'm in, you know, obviously if I'm going up a level or racing, you know, it'd be different. You'd sort in where you're supposed to be. But if I race out of the USA crits, where I put my bike where I want it to be, and if anybody questions it, like the energy is like, same thing, like, please, please tell me I can't put my bike here. You know what I mean? No one says nothing, okay? It could be age, it could be all kinds of stuff. But that is the thing is like, where it comes from. You know, where does that come from? And you know, I mentioned about driving a car. Okay, some people get a behind a car and they just feel so comfortable. They've been driving for years. You know, they're so comfortable. There's nothing they haven't seen. There's no conditions, you know, no wind or rain anything that's going to blow them up and then some people aren't, you know, and I'm like, I do up more, I'm up, like I do more than what's expected. I'm so prepared, you know, like, and that's, that's the confidence I have. And that's, you know, I want, even from an early age, it was like, what do I have to do to be the best guy through the corner? What do I have to be the best guy off the front? What do I have to do to walk up and put my bike right where I want it? Okay? And then you start adding that up. And then And now I'm here and you're sitting there, how do you do that? I'm like, I don't really know. But it starts with the believing you belong, believing it's possible, believing you can own this. All right. I think that's brilliant. I think one last one to finish up on. I often think this, what advice would I give to my younger self? If you were giving advice to Ed, getting started out about building this race or its mentality, what would you tell young Ed? Young Ed with the big head of hair. I tell them that won't last long. I think it's a great question. The first thing I can do is just rushing stuff. A lot of times I wanted everything so quickly. You know, like right from a, I wanted to grow up. As a little kid, I want to be older. You know, as a bike racer, I wanted to be the guy. You know, I think there's a lot of the journey and the process that you gotta really enjoy it and understand that it makes you you, okay? Like, you know, as an old man reflecting, like I'm like, all these things that I challenges and losing races and all, it's like, I consider him today. It made me this guy, this guy that's speaking today, but without it, I wouldn't be here. Okay. So I wanted to be here 10 years ago, the very first time I clipped in, okay. And it just doesn't work that way. So anybody that's starting up or beginning, it's like, yeah, you work on your mental game. It doesn't happen overnight. And I was not like this when I first started. Okay. So it's, you know, there's glimpses of it, you know, but this is, you know, like I said, 14 years of beatdowns. Okay, 14 years of being like, you know, I've lost it every single way you can imagine. Okay, so there is a process, enjoy the process, you know, love the pain, love the hurt, love the mental and physical beatdown. Enviel, race, race mentality, that was brilliant. So I can listen to it all the way. Thanks for chatting. Thanks for having me, man. Hey everybody, it's Anthony again. Really quick, I want to invite you to join arguably the best thing I've ever put out inside the roadman community. It's a challenge. It's a challenge called a 14 day kickstart challenge. So regardless of where your fitness is at right now, this is going to be the catalyst for making you faster and making you the leaner. I've created this challenge to take the guesswork out of everything. It's 14 days of training plans regardless of what your level is. There's masters, beginner, advanced. There's meal plans, shopping list and even a video course holding your hand and talking you through at all. So what I recommend you do right now is just stop everything, press pause on this audio and go to roadmancycling.com forward slash 14 day or check out the link in the bio that roadmancycling.com slash 14 day.