Coachingsarah & anthony

THE REAL REASON A ROAD BIKE COSTS MORE THAN A MOTORBIKE | RIDER SUPPORT

with Rider Support

33:55·15 March 2024

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KEY TAKEAWAYS

Specialized S-Works SL ~€14,000 vs Harley-Davidson Nightster ~€13,400. A motorbike has 2,348 components and weighs ~340kg; a road bike has ~1,000 components and weighs ~7kg. The price parity isn't about complexity.
Real-world TT data: less than 30 seconds difference over 40km between a top-tier frame and an entry-level frame using the same components, rider and skinsuit. ~20W gap. Aero marketing dominates the actual delta.
Industry is in crisis. Trek's CEO confirmed missing 15+ consecutive monthly sales targets and a 40% SKU reduction. BMC has applied for Swiss government support to avoid redundancies.
Top-of-line Specialized was £2,000 more expensive two years ago than today. The pricing house of cards is coming down — premium-tier MSRP is finally moving in the consumer's favour, slowly.
kJ (kilojoules) measure mechanical work on the bike more accurately than calories. Better for comparing training workload across seasons and prepping for stage races where glycogen replacement is the limiting factor.

Road bikes cost nearly as much as motorbikes, but the reason isn't what you'd think. We break down the real drivers behind premium bike pricing—from R&D and aerodynamic development to the bike industry's current collapse—and explore how status and pro-level innovation trickle down to amateur cyclists, even when the actual performance gains are minimal.

Key Takeaways

Road bike R&D is accelerating while motorcycle innovation has plateaued, but much of the claimed aero gains are cherry-picked data from wind tunnel testing at favorable angles—real-world differences between top and entry-level bikes are often less than 30 seconds over a 40km time trial
The bike industry is in crisis with major brands like Trek missing 15+ consecutive monthly sales targets, reducing SKUs by 40%, and laying off staff; BMC has even applied for Swiss government funding to avoid redundancies
Status and brand association with pro cyclists (like wanting Pactaur's Colnago) drive consumer spending more than actual performance needs, which is why premium bike prices haven't collapsed despite the market downturn
Technical sprint finishes with 100+ riders create unnecessary crash risk; using data-driven course design (like F1 does) with strategic climbs and turns could naturally reduce field size and improve safety
Kilojoules (KJ) measure actual mechanical work done on a bike more accurately than calories, making them better for comparing training workload across seasons and preparing for events like multi-day races

Expert Quotes

"The road bikes we know they're still evolving... if you look at the difference between your components from that bike that you bought back in 2004 and the components... how aerodynamic they are and how much time they spend in the Wind Tunnel it has changed a lot over the last couple of years — Anthony"

"The House of Cards is coming down... the industry is falling apart if you look at the top of the line specialized two years ago it was two grand more expensive than their top of the line specialized now — Anthony"

"If there was a hedge oh you would have been gone into it as well. I'm all for a clean sport but... when you were being tested and the whereabouts... they would always just arrive just as you had something nice planned — Sarah"

CLAIMS FROM THIS EPISODE

Each tagged with the strength of evidence behind it.

STUDY
Specialized's S-Works SL premium road bike retails at roughly €14,000 — comparable to the Harley-Davidson Nightster motorcycle at approximately €13,400 — despite a road bike having ~1,000 components and weighing ~7kg vs a motorbike's ~2,348 components at ~340kg.
Source: Manufacturer pricing and component-count data, summarised on the Roadman Cycling podcast
STUDY
Wind-tunnel and TT data Anthony cites shows less than 30 seconds difference over a 40km time trial (and approximately 20W power-equivalent) between top-tier and entry-level frames when components, rider and skinsuit are held constant.
Source: Aerodynamic / TT testing data, summarised on the Roadman Cycling podcast
STUDY
Trek's CEO publicly stated that the brand had missed monthly sales targets for 15+ consecutive months and reduced SKUs by ~40% in response to inventory challenges across wholesale and retail.
Source: Trek public statements, summarised on the Roadman Cycling podcast
STUDY
BMC has reportedly applied for Swiss government support to avoid redundancies — Anthony cites this as evidence the cycling industry crisis extends beyond the major US brands.
Source: BMC public reporting, summarised on the Roadman Cycling podcast

KEY QUOTES

“In a bike a motorbike there is 2,348 components your average bike will weigh about £340 so you're getting a big chunk of metal and a lot of tech there you know for your 13,400 and in a bike you've got about a thousand components and that's going to weigh I mean we know what they weigh £37.”
Sarah — Rider Support guest

“The Trek CEO had a statement that I seen recently where he said the global bike Market is in chaos with high levels of inventory at wholesale and Retail levels leading to significant and continued discounting. He said the company not hit a single monthly sales Target in the past 15 months and as a result of this Trek have reduced their number of skews by 40% in internal document.”
Anthony Walsh — Roadman Cycling podcast host

“Any of the data I've seen on a 40 km TT there's less than 30 seconds difference between the same component same rider same skin suits frame A and frame B where A being the top of the line and the other one being the bottom of the line that's minuscule.”
Anthony Walsh — Roadman Cycling podcast host

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT2 SECTIONS

Why Road Bikes Cost As Much As Motorbikes

Sarah how are you today I'm absolutely brilliant how are you Anthony what are we talking about we are talking about oh we've a lot on the agenda today the first question is the question on everybody's mind over the last couple of months years maybe here we go Anthony and Sarah why does a road bike cost as much as a motorbike it's true isn't it you can buy a motorbike it is true I bought my first bike and it had t N speed they're on 12 now and full OC it was a trk at the time so they had an ocv carbon which was their top of the range carbon that cost me €2,500 Euro new a new specialized which was a lot of money back in the day 1982 or how many years ago was that though 2010 yeah so 2009 yeah yeah it's like a good few years ago there's a lot of money for a bike still a lot of money for a bike yeah I I agree I totally agree a specialized SL with di2 is1 14,000 Euro right now but wait for it a Harley Nightster special which looks like the bike that Ernie rode in the terminator1 13,400 Euro right okay 600 quiz I know make it make sense now I did a little bit of research on this and in a bike a motorbike there is 2,348 components your average bike will weigh about £340 so you're getting a big chunk of metal and a lot of tech there you know for your 13,400 and in a bike you've got about a, components and that's going to weigh I mean we know what they weigh £37 it said in the research that I did so you're kind of thinking this this doesn't add up it doesn't make sense and if you look into the numbers in 2022 there was actually 143 million bikes that were sold globally that's nearly three times the amount of motorbikes that were sold over the same period and that to me would mean that okay that means that there's loads more bikes be manufactured so therefore they should be cheaper than motorbikes but it's not the case unfortunately because when you have a little look underneath the hood of this most of the bikes in that 143 million are kind of lower level entry level Leisure bikes you've got your city bikes and your car still think there is some economies of scale when you're producing that many bikes especially we know that a lot of frames come out of the same few factories in Thailand Taiwan China like they're not Reinventing the wheel every time they're kind of selling us this R&D as why they're so expensive is the party line R&D is driving the prices up but like are we led to believe there's no R&D in the motorcycle industry I don't know anything about it but one would assume there's still quite a lot of research and development well the R&D yeah that is a massive massive feature in the price of a road bike and apparently from looking into the motorcycle that sector that technology has kind of plateaued over the last five six seven eight years so they're not putting as much into R&D in that industry so that's why they're saying we're paying a lot more money for Road now the road bikes we know they're still evolving I know you're a little bit skeptical about that they all come out of the same Factory but they are evolving very very quickly if you look at the difference between your components from that bike that you bought back in 2004 and the components and the shapes of the bike and how aerodynamic they are and how much time they spend in the Wind Tunnel it has changed a lot over the last couple of years and they haven't seen that in the motorbike industry in the same period of time okay so that's a good point so what we're talking about is the the tip of the spear the what's driving it Forward at the very top I don't watch super bikes but there is definitely Innovation season on season in super bikes there's no way that they're not innovating year on year the exact same way Max for stappen Formula One car this year it's not the same as Max her sten's car last year it's not the same as this car last week they're bringing changes in so fast The Innovation is so rapid you know the iteration in terms of arot testing it's so fast-paced in those Industries what's happening in both Formula 1 and super cars is that's not dripping down to the consumer bikes just because maxw stop and drives a Formula 1 car doesn't mean I drive a Formula 1 car but because Pacha you should drive a Formula 1 car but because Pacha D rides uh colago I need to ride the same colago as Pacha it makes no sense I think it does actually make sense in ways because if you look at the Formula 1 or these let's say very very high-end motorcycle biks and they can cost up to a million to you know create these super high-end super fast bikes it makes sense because that's not attainable for the average person a person who is you know 14,000 for a bike you can crash and break in one minute I totally agree but it is an attainable price it is attainable for a lot of people and that's why they're like why wouldn't I cycle the same bike that Pacha has there's one other point that I think is important to cover and that's about the customization of your bike so if you go on to buy your Harley Nightster special you're going to go on there's no different size frame you might pick the might you might have a choice of four color combinations to choose from but there's very little specking that you will do and the bike companies are saying that basically because you can go onto the Bike Company you have to pick your frame you have to pick your components your stem size all of that that that adds on the labor cost of an actual mechanic putting your bike together market like the the the mechanic isn't putting your bike together that much if we're talking about retail or manufacturing but at retail level the mechanic doesn't really put your bike together they come basically pre- assembled assembled yeah assembled and there's very little there a few bits of tightening to do and the idea that the their be spoke like there's a 54 a 56 a 58 and a 61 if you're a giant and like that's basically it and the B spoke element is you're running a stem anywhere between 100 Mil and 130 mil yeah but there's more variations there's different colors that now people are getting obsessed by crank length you can go you can go electric gearing you can go mechanical you can go disc brakes Ed I mean maybe not Rim brakes anymore but there is a lot of peration not driving the price up like yeah I just call it sp sp that stuff can't be driven the price up you have the same like choices in anything what color seats you're going to go what color steering wheel you're going to go with I think it's Arrow that's driving up and that's the cycling Industries agenda to impose arrow on the rest of us we don't need Arrow nobody cares about Arrow like there's tests that I've seen from manufacturers the difference from their very top of the line bike to their entry level bike so you look at Specialized sl8 all the way down to their entry level aluminium it's about 20 watts different and now having Josh from Silka Josh partner from Silka on who works a lot with these brands in the Wind Tunnel he told me what they will do is they'll bring a bike into the wind tunnel and they'll for so many different y angles at it until they get an angle that validates their assumption that this is a fast bike so if they're advertising 20 to 40 watt differences between their top of the line and their entry level the likelihood is it's a lot less than that in reality any of the data I've seen on a 40 km TT there's less than 30 seconds difference between the same component same rouer same skin suits frame a and frame B where a being the top of the line and the other one being the bottom of the line that's minuscule we don't care about Arrow I don't care about arrow and because they're forcing arrow on us there's been no innovation around what actually Matters To the End user to the customer there's no innovation around not getting a sore ass when you're out on the bike there's no innovation around the bike not breaking if I have a crash on my local criteria about not scratching if someone else puts their bike up against mine on the coffee shop these seem like things that you could easily fix also there's no innovation around making the bike easy to use like they've got harder to use I used to be able to take apart that trick in the evening and put it back together now you need to bleed B braks you need to plug your di2 into computers they're getting difficult to work on so the innovation has gone the wrong way on that as well the hyper focus on Arrow for me is the wrong Focus yeah no look I mean the problem is that people are going to pay this money the bike manufacturers will stop producing these super expensive bikes or the price will come down if people stop buying them and I just can't see that because if for instance you are I always talk about status how people want to increase their status some people do that by training 20 hours a week and going and winning a cat one or a cat 2 race some people can't do that and they're like you know what I want to increase my status here and if I have that 14,000 brand new specialized bike I look like a bit of a dude on the group ride this brings my level up and people would be like he's doing something right in some way in some part of the psyche so as soon as people stop buying these bikes the bike industry will have to have a comeback and reduce the price but that's not going to happen do you know when the bike indust when people are going to stop buying them now they've stopped like the industry is falling apart if you look at the top of the line specialized I keep referencing to specialized two years ago it was two grand more expensive than their top of the line specialized now and as you said like these it they're only as valuable as somebody's willing to actually take their credit card out of their pocket and pay for these items and it's starting to crumble the House of Cards is coming down and maybe this is kind of the dirty little secret that no one in the cycling industry wants to talk about at the moment because a lot of journalists their job is dependent on the sponsors who feed these you know Brands so it's not talked about much yeah it's not being talked about much and I don't know if your leisure cyclist or the guy who's doing all of these sportifs who is you know and has that expendable money who has 15 grand in his AR pocket to spend on a bike I don't know how much he's keeping an eye on the industry but yeah we have seen some very very kind of frightening things happening very recently BMC they're a Swiss company I mean amazing bikes they have the Swiss government essentially they've applied to the government for funding now they haven't received the funding yet they basically put filled in all the paper work just to have it to press go if things get any worse because they don't want their they don't want to let people go they don't want to have redundancies or cut people's errors and the Swiss government have a scheme basically where they will put some money into this com you know companies's to keep them rolling until better times come so BMC are in trouble Ro men I'm going to date myself here but I've been riding the bike for almost 20 years and in that time I've cycled through every cycling apparel brand out there and I kept swapping out different apparel Brands each season until I found laal there's something really different about laal and as soon as you slip into the gear you notice it feels different it feels better I've had the pleasure of chatting with yanto Barker on the podcast he's the lall founder and his dedication to crafting the fastest most refined cycling apparel out there it's nothing short of inspiring yanto isn't just trying to create gear I get the feeling he's actively an obsessed ly trying to perfect cycling gear trust me as soon as you slip on the theall kit as soon as you zip up that Jersey you can feel that commitment to proof for the call it's in the pudding this is the same kit that Jay hindley wore when he clinched overall victory in theur Natalia there's a confidence that comes with wearing aarl that's been battle tested and Podium proven in races like the jir toal you trust me feeling good on the bike means you're going to perform better if you have a second I highly advise you to jump on over to lol.

Bike Industry Turmoil and Consolidation

CC and check out they amazing range of Kit and experience this feeling for yourself and the Trek CEO who lamond absolutely hates me slay in the interview B he had a statement that I seen recently where he said the global bike Market is in chaos with high levels of inventory at wholesale and Retail levels leading to significant and continued discounting he said retail sales were also below tracks forecasts including in January and February this year he said the company not hit a single monthly sales Target in the past 15 months and as a result of this Tre have reduced their number of skews by 40% in internal document the said and 10% layoffs companywide and that's to go with specialized announce a 3% layoff and they basically got rid of all their influencers and you know kind of brand ambassadors and wile's gone into Administration yeah absolutely wiggle was bought for like 10 million a couple of days ago I don't know who it was bought by but really a very low sum for a company that was so gigantic in the height of cycling Triathlon kind of Fitness but yeah the influencers are gone they're they are not getting even free kit free bikes anything anymore never mind being paid to atise or you know company's equipment so yeah it's it's frightening the way it's going needs a bit of a reset industry wide and I can see one or two big Brands coming in and consolidating the whole thing we see in as she does a the catalon this year the catalon firstc Fay into really the top end and the data on the bike looks pretty good from the wind tunnel as much as you can believe that data internally from teams on how fast our bikes are the bike looks good I know s Bennett riding it's meant to be a good bike I think we're going to see more companies like that coming in and having a land grab and consolidating you know five or six of these other brands that we don't need that much Choice yeah no I agree and I think it's I think it's only a matter of time I haven't seen any of the van risle is it van risel bikes haven't seen any of them out and about yet but I do know that we will only up the road yeah I really do hope that we start seeing way more I am seeing more of the kiss knocking away things like that but yeah the bikes I'm looking forward to chatting to somebody who has one and seeing how they find it but yeah maybe it's because the bike industry has been a little bit greedy and now it's kind of biting them in the ass B clim the next question okay Anthony I listened to the Greg Lamont interview part two and it was super tell me tell me throw sugar at me it got me thinking about the prevalence of doping in amateur cycling what's your thoughts on this do you think cat one two and three and vets are perhaps doping to get an edge that's a really interesting question it's like before you jump into what you think recently in the last week or two there was a bit of a Kur fuffle in a race in Valencia Valencia Valena Valencia where there was 130 Riders and sorry there was 180 Riders at the start line and as the race progressed they all got wind that the doping you know people were there at the going to be at the Finish Line testing and 130 of the Riders dropped out now I did a little bit more digging into that as well apparently this race very very diff very very difficult and normally only about half of the group would actually end up finishing anyway so I'm not saying 130 of these Riders dropped out because they were doping apparently that's kind of normal that there's a lot of dnfs for this particular race but that sounds very high yeah but also they're different things so to answer the first question you think C one's two's trees and vets is there people do yeah undoubtedly there is people open because you mentioned status you know people are motivated by different stuff people are motivated by Financial that's why people dopee in the world tour and they dope locally to be the Local Hero is there a significant number of cut ones to austr open I don't think so I've seen definitely red flags in my time racing where you see this huge increase in performance level from somebody over like a three- week period and that's just not in line at all with what you'd expect from them but it's been rare and because there's a lot more goes into winning at that level than just straight out physiological I think you're going to see more dope and I spoke with uh Zach on the podcast a couple of days ago I think it's out on Wednesday and he was top 10 in the Esports I think you're going to maybe see more doping in that area than you're going to see in road racing because road racing so multifaceted dopin is not going to help you go around the corner dolpin's not going to help you to you know utilize energy better in the bunch if there was a magic dope and pill I could take to you need Corner one to take Corners better I'm sorry hands up GR used to as well H but so yeah I think there's a number definitely greater than zero that are doping in amateur races it's a bit tragic I have to say if you're one of those that's tempted to cross that edge it's a bit tragic now the Valencia thing is different because it's like if I am an amateur cat one or cat two Rider not taking it that serious basically me at the moment where I'm doing a bit of training I'm kind of mailing it in we're going to races and then all of a sudden you see dope control at the Finish Line like you're not going to finish that race you could potentially get called on a random dope control like what's your upside rolling across that line and going into dope control have you been at a party where someone was smoking weed recently yeah there's a four-year B and there's your name pulled for the mode potentially lose your job putting stress on relationships have you been get from some dodgy you know your even your protein you know cheap protein online and it's been tainted with y like you're not looking for Pure sport certified if you're cat one cat two cat three and you're not typically tested it was different when I was getting tested all the time and you knew the tester was calling to the house you're scanning everything making sure it's pure sport certified making sure it's bat batch tested there was a case here in Ireland actually a few years ago where uh someone got randomly tested at a cat 2 cat Tre stage race I won't name them even though it's out in the public sphere and he tested positive for marijuana and he got a baned because of that but he comes from a small rural town in Ireland his name was dragged through the M because of that and you know reputational damage because he smoked a bit of weed at a party it's obviously not performance enhancing so I would say of those that dropped out how many dropped out 130 you could say maybe half of them just got dropped and didn't finished the race yeah so you have 65 odd people I would be saying 98 99% of those are recreational what about this fell though that went off the road and went through the bush to avoid entering the finish line and preventing the anti do opening Agents from being able to control him bit of a red flag there maybe yeah or is it like I've got tested at the end of stage races I've got tested on stage four at the end of a stage race fourth stage I see the tester I'm like I know they're coming to test me ruins your evening so you get to drive home about three hours later than everyone else you're hanging around you're dehydrated after the race so you can't go for a piss you've this lad coming into the shower with you in case you sneak a piss out when you're in the shower it's a miserable experience if there was a hedge oh you would have been gone into it as well I'm all for a clean sport but you know it's I have to say when you were being tested and the weab abouts so basically Anthony had to tell everybody all of the time where he was so the the testers could show up at any time and oh my God it was the bane of our lives and they would always just arrive just as you had something nice planned and nice dinner going away for the weekend that all was just new to rocking at the wrong time they'd be here for hours oh absolutely hated them yeah okay next question Anthony do you agree with the super technical and twisty Sprint finishes there was a big crash in Tano adriatico last week yes it was very slippy Technical and my I find it hard to watch Sprints anyway but those like super technical ones everyone's jostling heart was in my mou I'm watching it like behind a cushion my wish is hands down the best virtual cycling app for home and it's redefining indoor training at no cost yep it's absolutely free and setting up my wish is really easy just download the My Wish app connect to your device like your W bike or your smart trainer and off you go now if you're feeling competitive there's weekly races for every category from beginner to Pro plus there's insane prize money upper grabs now if you've no plan to race that's no problem there's hundreds of free training plans and workouts that are designed to really push you to your limits you can enjoy daily group rides and group workouts and you can customize your avatar all without opening your wallet so go on over to the My Wish app and have a look around why spend money on monthly subscriptions elsewhere when my wish offers all of this for free so join my wish today it's available on iOS Mac OS Google play Apple TV or click on the link in the show notes to get started I think we need to move to an Era of on these Sprint finishes and stop guessing which is going to be a Sprint finish if they use anyone that races the bike professionally knows what the dangerous finishes are why don't we have data on that and if you know it's going to be a super technical finish there should be a threshold that you can't you know be coming through there historically with more than 15% of the field still in the front you know because you know there could be a super technical finish in the last 500 meters in Milan Sano we know statistically there's almost no chance there been a bunch Sprint in Milan Sano there's going to be a reduced group Sprint at most we just need to start using data and stop running from of 50 years ago how would you do that how would you even say okay like the top 15 anyone who's behind the top 15 20 in a group they they're neutralized or something or no but it's just spread out like there's not incentive to go full gas and take risks if you're coming in for 40s Pros don't do that so all the risk is for a stage win so if you're coming in in a group of a hundred there's a 100 people still in that are willing to take risk for to win that stage if you're coming in the group of 15 there's obviously only 15 that have to navigate these twisty finishes so you can have a super technical finish if there's only going to be three people coming into the finish it can be as technical as you want but how do you stop the 100 people how do you how do you propose that we stop the 50 people getting to the Train the Train the Train's got to do it so like you know so put in more climbs put in more kind of points here and there you know you know the races are going to like you know T Flander is not going to have 150 people coming to the line there's just too many there's too much elevation over the course of tour of Landers so you could put a very technical finish into tour of Landers okay but yeah Adam Hansen from CPA was on the podcast and there's a lot of ways that if you get creative that you can reduce this stuff you can have like manufactured turns coming into stuff like hot dog turns that are tinning the field out coming into finishes so you know Formula One manages to do this with a lot of thought in course planning and then course planning is a little bit of an afterthought for these type races so that needs to evolve yeah I have to say I watched that and as I said behind the cushion I was just because it was kind of wet as well slippy then there was crashes it was just it just looked like chaos to me then feel felt like the barriers were very very close together I know it's a good spectacle but even as a cycling fan I would prefer not to see those kind of crashes and dangerous riding than having something that's super invert comom is entertaining okay Anthony and Sarah can you talk about the helmet that VIs Lisa bike wore a few weeks ago for that team time trial is it the worst helmet ever and do you think that the sport has finally lost the plot Jesus that helmet broke the internet it was bigger than Kim Kardashian's boom wasn't it it was just like the helmet probably was bigger than her boom as well but yeah what do you think Anthony have we completely gone insane like if you asked someone on the street about any TT helmet like you look like an alien like these aren't fashionable items to begin with you look like a Gob shot like a spa I think they're not any cycling K none of this is stylish none of this is cool so to say this is the least cool of the non- cool stuff I don't know I just if it tests well it's an AO helmet it's not a fashion price well you see that's the problem we none of the testing has been released we don't know how more aerodynamic it is and we don't know the cost of it and apparently now even though these reals have been broken all of the time by tech companies by helmets bike companies all of that kind of stuff they're not supposed to release these products unless they're available to the market but this helmet isn't available to the market yet I've searched high and low basically been on the dark web looking for a price for one of these things or a name and it was not forthcoming at all apparently it does fit into this the ECI have Dimensions that helmets must fit into as to kind of keep a little bit of a you know so let start wearing traffic cones and apparently it does fit into these proportions but jeez it just looked absolutely insane it's fast to use it all the helmet looks stupid they all look stupid the specialized sock last year or in 2022 with that specialized helmet with this sock like the balac clava that makes sense to me though it does like anyone that's done a TT that'll make sense to them if they've used similar Brands to me like B like jro cuz the helmet it just slips into your eyes and when you're in that TT position you can't take your hand off to readjust it so having something that just holds the whole thing in place is I thought it was to make your neck not that I'm saying that cyclists have gels they definitely don't but just to kind of make the neck ear head area I think it holds it in places I didn't think that that after seeing those helmets last or in 2022 I didn't think it could get any more ridiculous but they have now been banned by the UCI so the UCI is said that it's even going to come and review this uh visma Lisa bike helmet as well and kind of they're like oh I don't know if this is going to be allowed or not apparently within the UCI there's a big push for helmets not to increase your performance but to actually do what a helmet is made for and that's to prevent head injury if there's a crash that's not happening yeah well that's kind of what the the UCR are hoping to do last question of the week last question of the week Anthony a lot of writers seem to be talking about kils instead of training stress score but what are kils and why is this relevant I tried to look it up online but basically there was just a lot of information about calories versus kogs but not much specific information about training it is actually tricky to look up online I've had a few people asking why I use K as a metric and they tried to research themselves and they said they got tied in NS yeah you're not just gatekeeping either a lot of the coaches that you've interviewed like Alexander Buu all of those kind of really high-end coaches they use kilog too yeah it's a measure of the work done during a ride I think it's why people use it because kilo it's a direct measure of the mechanical work performed unlike calories which are an estimation of the energy expenditure so calories can be affected by stuff like your efficiency levels or your metabolism so that means the kilog there a more accurate way to quantify actual work done now you can have a play around with this yourself and try to understand if you go out the door and you want to produce 100 kles of energy how long do you need to ride 200 Watts for so for me it's round 20000 watts is about eight minutes for most people I I don't know what effect is that but 200 Watts eight eight and a half minutes will produce 100 kilog of energy where it's actually useful because all that just sounds like gobbley go where it's actually use is if you zoom out and you want to look at your total workload over a macro period so you want to look at say we looked at your workload for 2023 versus 2024 we could look and you could say okay last year Sarah wrote 100,000 kiles last year this year she's ridden 120,000 kiles so you've had a 20% bump in your workload for the entire year now that's difficult to do if you're just using duration because duration doesn't factor in intensity in the same way so we could say you know you rode two 200 errs this year but it doesn't tell the full story like killig does another really cool thing to do is you were targeting the rift so we could say okay we know the rift is going to be a you know we'd have to research historically what the kiligal expenditure is for someone with your projected finishing time but say the rift is going to be a 5,000 kle event now we could zoom out and go okay well how many one day rides have you done that have been 5,000 kogs because if you're just shown up to your event to do a 5,000 kog ride for the first time without any prior preparation of doing that it's most likely not going to end well so you can historically look back and then anchor it and go okay last year Sarah completed four 5,000 plus kilog roids over the course of the year which just maybe close enough to true and then you can start kind of prepare in this season and go okay actually this could be a good Target because historically maybe Badlands which is a 28,000 Kil uh expenditure over three days isn't going to be a great move for you when you've never ridden over 5,000 K so that's why it's super useful yeah it I think that is that's a really good explanation because when I was looking it up it's like trying to do you are you using kogs and then you're trying to based on the amount of kogs your device is telling you you've used then trying to eat to replenish you know kilo jeels through your food instead of calories is this like but it seems to be more of a training you you know a metric that's used in the way that you're talking about you can also use it to guide your rtion over the course of a race but I think yeah the the the kind of the perspective that's confused a lot of people because most people are familiar with kill JS in a nutrition perspective okay I've eaten this now I should replace this but it's that idea of using as a benchmark for what your writers like if you know I see you at the end of the day in Jona and I go rid and I say what did you do you could say to me oh oh I Ro three hours where tree climbs that were 20 minutes each and then I start to get an idea of what your Ro is like or but that starts getting more difficult to describe if it's like okay I done three hours with 21 minute climbs an easier way to just say that as yet on 2,800 kilog and I get a feeling then of what that's like because I've written 2,800 kilog in the past the only thing is that kogs let's say won't it will take in the exact amount of force that you're putting through the pedal so it's not really a metric that you can use for running or swimming I think again you're kind of getting you know there's a lot of like algorithms and different kind of mats that has to be brought in when you're talking about you could use for run yeah different discussion but for run them with a parameter now yeah because yeah because you have a parameter on the bike it's really accurate with regards to the power that we're putting down but we're still using more energy than the kilog is telling us AR we because you know you're engaging your core you're rocking your heart rate is going up it's like so what I'm hearing from you about kogs is it's just a training me K is a direct measure of what you're putting in you're talking about kilo calories which they're taking in efficiency levels into that but that's a definitely discussion for the day before you wrap up I want to do a my wosh session of the week myh session of the week this week this is again based off my conversation with Zach which is coming out on Wednesday it's actually not a session it's a race go and race on my woosh because talking to him he's racing there every week and he said it's the best kept secret in cycl at the moment that almost everybody is making prize money for racing because they don't have the the participation levels if you show up as a female Rider and complete the race regardless of what category you are you're getting paid so if anyone likes free money for just riding your bike my w races are that at the moment because there's price money for every single category it's not like you need to be the best cat one to win you can also even sag the power profile test as cat one cat four go make money don't do that folks but if you have any questions about racing I haven't stepped in my I haven't raced I I've spent a lot of time in my wish and I am hoping to race but if any questions about racing or how to get set up for racing or testing testing protocol or you know setup protocol send me a DM on Twitter best place to get me folks thanks for tuning in to this podcast if you enjoyed it and you want to hear another conversation between myself and Sarah please click up here listen to us debate hookless rims and please don't forget to subscribe to the channel catch you next day

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Why do road bikes cost more than motorbikes?+

Premium road bikes like the Specialized S-Works SL retail at around €14,000, while a Harley-Davidson Nightster starts at roughly €13,400. Anthony and Sarah argue on the Roadman Cycling Podcast that aerodynamics marketing, rather than genuine engineering complexity or component cost, is the primary force pushing consumer road bike prices this high.

How much faster is an expensive road bike frame compared to a cheap one?+

Wind-tunnel data suggests the real-world difference between a top-tier and entry-level frame is approximately 20 watts and under 30 seconds over a 40km time trial. For most amateur riders, that performance gap is marginal and rarely justifies the enormous price premium attached to flagship frames.

Is the cycling industry in financial trouble?+

Yes, the bike industry is facing serious difficulties, driven in part by pricing that has outpaced what most consumers are willing or able to pay. Anthony and Sarah discuss how inflated pricing built on aerodynamics marketing has contributed to falling demand, leaving brands and retailers under significant pressure.

Is R&D the real reason road bikes are so expensive?+

Manufacturers frequently cite research and development costs to justify high prices, but Anthony and Sarah challenge this on the Roadman Cycling Podcast. Their argument is that the measurable performance returns from that R&D are modest, and that aerodynamics branding does more to inflate the price tag than the actual engineering investment does.

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