1.On today's podcast, I'm going to talk to Irish international cyclist…

On today's podcast, I'm going to talk to Irish international cyclist Kelly Morphy. Let's hear that intro! The big question is this. How do we use cycling as a tool to improve our health, our happiness and our long changes? That is the question and this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Anthony Walsh and welcome to the Rowman Podcast. Roman welcome back Roman it's Wednesday it's another roadman cycling for fun podcast thanks for joining me all week and especially today because I especially love and look forward to this Wednesday podcast so I've got a slightly different Wednesday podcast for you guys this week I'm gonna I've an interview recorded with Irish International Kelly Morphe Kelly is such an amazing boy gruder and all around super interesting person she's multiple National Time Trial Champion. She is the Irish record holder for the individual pursuit. She's on the team that's the National Record holder for the team pursuit. She's represented on countless occasions. She's super down to earth, super clued in on things like aerodynamics, nutrition, preparation. And I pick Kelly's brain, but in a slightly different way. This is one of the interviews that I'm actually after pulling from our roadman summit. I've recorded this interview from our roadman summit and this is an example of one of the amazing speakers from the roadman summit. So I've taken this interview as a way to just give you a little peek behind the curtain at what's coming in the roadman summit. So I haven't put the entire interview here, the entire interview is too long for a podcast. So I've pulled out a little extract of the interview for the Wednesday podcast. If you want to hear this entire interview along with the 30 other speakers that I'm commenting on the 8th and 9th of December for the Roadman Virtual Performance Summit. The way to do that is registering at that free ticket. It's on roadmansummit.com forward slash free. But you will definitely enjoy this super interesting chat I have today with Kelly Morphy. So without further ado, I give to you Kelly Morphy. Kelly Morphy, welcome to the Roadman on a virtual summit. Hiya. How are you? Yeah, good. Good. How are you? Good, good. Kelly, I want to talk about your rapid progression. When I was putting together the list of speakers and I was thinking, I knew I wanted to talk about this topic of rapid progression because our cyclists, all of us are massively impatient and everybody wants to be better as fast as they can and I'm always saying to them, look, it's a patience game. It's a patience game. You get go to five years in, six years in, 10 years in. Like at seven, eight years in, some riders are still very immature, but then every now and then, a rider like you comes along and just shatters all of this. When did you get into sport? Oh, I've been sort of active all of my adult life. Like I started with running and then I've been cycling now for about five years, all together. And then on the track for two and a half. And so you came in to sort of on the scene, I first seen him, it was probably 2016, 2017. Yeah, that's when I started doing national championships and stuff. So I've only been cycling for like a year and a half then. So I was just finding my feet in the red scene in general. So I suppose I want to focus on that period from when you're finding your fees up to, you know, setting national records, getting on national teams and that gap in between. Because that's the gap where most of the people tuning into this, I'm sure there's one or two world tour guys just tuning in for the crack because they're just scratching themselves and they're not nails. But by and large I feel like most of the audience is going to be tuning in wondering how do I get better, how do Kelly do this, what is the magic potion? So how rarely did you start with working with a coach? So it was when I joined the national squad because I had a job when I was race in like back 2017 and start in 2018. So I was just training like around my work and I started with commuting so I was literally like just you know smashing myself at 20 minutes on the bike like to and from the office without even knowing it was like the perfect time for our workout. I was just... You were just riding my lap? Yeah just full gas and full gas. And then one of the first things we did on the National Squad is how we have our Lattake's taken, just so they can see where your power zones are.

2.My power zones look like, my Lattake's done for a straight line

My power zones look like, my Lattake's done for a straight line. So if you've ever had yours done, you'll know it's a curve. It's because I used to just hammer hard for like 20 minutes every day, flat line. Were you using heart rate, power, anything or how soon did you get there out of the tools like that? Yeah, it was whenever I started using a kettle, like, when I had a coach because I would just go off field before that. So, you know, if I felt good, I'd go hard or go long. If I had the time and then if I felt a little bit tired, you just knock it off the touch. I think training really is as simple as that, like just listening to yourself. So I think that's a skill a lot of people miss and you're trying to, because now everybody has to have a parameter, like almost every A4 category four of you in the US has a parameter. And before it was only the elite guys had a parameter, but you kind of learned to listen to your body. Now people are nearly neglect and that's all it, a listener to their body. Yeah, so I think it's all relative, like it's okay now what what you're putting out, but it depends, you know, if it feels good, if it feels hardly, you know, terrible, and it depends what you're aiming for, but you know, what's or what it's, you know, your indication of fitness and how well you're going in yourself, you know, realizing entirely on your being honest with yourself and how it feels. So you made that jump from amateur to national squad, basically with no guidance, with no structure, that was just you going out riding on feel. Yeah, more or less. But I think a lot of that is, I was very much in the right place in the right time as well. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of people out there who haven't had the same opportunities as me who were just as good. So I think it's a balance between trying hard, the right mentality and simply being lucky. What did that week look like for you? So you said you were writing in now to work, but were you writing on the weekends? How long were you writing on the weekends? Group rides? Yeah, so I was writing with a group. So I'd go, you know, Saturday and Sunday, the standard sort of, you know, what I think a lot of people do two and a half hours, that kind of thing. But I wasn't really focusing on being a pro rider. was just something I did because I loved it. Did you find it difficult to get, like I know so many my friends who are girls and they want to get into the sport, but they're really tiptoey into the sport because if you look at like the makeup of a typical group, right, it's almost anywhere in the world. It's predominantly males. Is that intimidating? No, not really. I mean, I think it depends on who you are as a person. Like I wouldn't be intimidated by it just because I already happened to know a lot of men and be friends of them like a group in a family mostly and then like, so it didn't bother me and you start chanting people and you know, they're fairly easy to get on with and there'd be such an array of characters on a group by that I would never have had the chance to meet. I found it intriguing. So I don't know, I suppose it could be intimidating, I guess if you're not used to it, but I didn't really see a problem with it and I think a lot of them wouldn't. Were you coming from a background in another sport? So I ran, so I did marathon running, but that again, I didn't run for a club or anything. I did it just as a hobby. Were you fast in the example? I think eventually I was kind of getting there. I did, my fastest marathon was three hours, two minutes. That's pretty fast. Yeah, so three hours is the barometer for being a decent amateur and I missed it by two minutes. Yeah, you're going to go from jogger to runner at around three hours, that's it. Yeah, exactly, that's it. So you were coming across to the sport with a good fitness base from another sport. But I know one of the things I see you from Girls Message on Instagram saying they're trying to get into it. One of their big hang ups is insecurity around the kit and like cycling kit is not flattering at the best of times. You were obviously coming from another sport.

3.Wouldn't be fair to say you didn't have any of those hang ups or were…

So you wouldn't be fair to say you didn't have any of those hang ups or were you still kind of, oh my God. kids a bit much? I don't know, I thought it was a bit crazy. I remember I never come across like bib shorts before. So the first few group rides I did, I was just like in shorts. And when I commuted, I was just in like normal shorts or like jogging bums. And at the time I was living with a flatmate from my degree course. And I thought I looked like, you know, Victoria and weight lift or something, bib shorts just blew in my mind. Like I've never seen in the straps of like, well, I know this, this, but you get used to it, you're climatised. And I don't know, it's, it's just what everyone else is learning. So I don't really think about it. And like having pockets in New Jersey and stuff just made everything easier. And so you know, you know, you're on a go trying to block a few months ago, I put in a particularly hard trying to block and I remember going to a restaurant for dinner at that evening, obviously wearing jeans and a short or whatever. And I went to go to a bathroom in the restaurant, and I just instinctively took off my shirt to go to the bathroom. It's like, what am I doing? I just so used to having bib shorts on and having the one hook done to go to the bathroom. So you definitely get used to it. Definitely. And I think it buys you a license. You say you remind me like, I was out for a walk. It was over. Oh, no, I wasn't. I was out for a run. And I needed to wait. And I was in my local park. And when you're in cycling kit, I would just go mid-ride in some random bush without thinking twice about it because I feel like the cat buys me a license to get away with this. And when you're in normal clothes and you feel so strange to just run behind a tree. It's more of a end of a drunken night out I think. Yeah exactly like it did feel right whereas I don't think twice about it when I'm in cycling cat. So when you stepped up to the National Squad and you started working with a coach and you started getting structure for the first time and using a heart rate monitor and a power meter, initially what did you try and look like? Initially it was loads of miles so like now I'm like using all these extra bits like a heart rate monitor and a power meter like because my goals have changed because now I am deliberately focusing on racing and cycling and stuff. So yeah for me it was just a lot of like long easy miles because like I said so I used to smash myself intensity wasn't a problem at all whereas you know going for three hours definitely was. Yeah, so it was a lot of that. And then there's a lot more rest than I anticipated that would be. Because even if I was, you know, taking care of myself, even if I didn't feel good, I'd still go out for like, you know, half an hour or an hour or I'd still do something. I was surprised by the amount of rest I needed to take. So you're based in New York at the moment with the National Squad and I assume you're very much in base training mode at the moment? At the minute yeah because I actually have reverted back to the person. I'm talking like you know who I was three or four years ago. So over lockdown I've just been you know like running every single day because I love it and now I'm back to struggling with my three hour rides. So what do we look like for you at the moment? Orchestra or kind of a Monday to Sunday week? So at the minute it's just sort of using myself back into riding consistently so I'm sure like most people can probably get up and smash out you know a two and a half three hour and easy ride but doing it day after day after day can get a little bit wearing so it's just building back into that gradually without she don't want to smash yourself up and ruin you know the next couple of days training so it's all about taking it gradually easy and then you know we'll see maybe you bit zone three and climbs and things like that just tickle a few zones. So how many errors would you get in a week at the moment?

4.Good question. So I'd probably do six days on the bike and then I'd…

Good question. So I'd probably do six days on the bike and then I'd probably do somewhere between three and three and a half hours. Like fairly easy in the minute. So you're kind of like 18 hours or so? Yeah, yeah, that would be a good week. Yeah, and then some gym. Quite a chunk of a week. Yeah, like and then when you had like, you know, focusing or like aiming for a specific day like that can go up to maybe 25, I think the most have done is 30 hours in a week. But that's not very often. That's not true. Do you find your body responds well to high volume training like that? Yeah, I think it depends on who you are. I cope well with a lot of training like in, I race well with a little bit of fatigue in my legs or as I know a lot of other people need to be a little bit more targeted and they need a little bit more rest. So I think that's one of the things that you need to experiment with. Yeah. You spoke about kind of understanding your body when you were getting started and kind of just knowing how to intuitively pace those type of efforts. Do you find now that you like kind of rely on the parameter and the heart rate monitor or do you still like to go out and just ride off air? It's a little bit of both. I mean, some days are going to be easier than others but a lot of the thing you know, I say if I'm coming into the race a lot of the sessions I'll have will be very specific. So I always think, I don't know, you've just kind of be sensible. Some days it doesn't really matter what you think you've just got to get the session done. So I think sometimes you can, you know, you can wind yourself up, sometimes it'll feel a little bit hard, or I don't know, it's about balancing all three, I think. But when I race, I wouldn't look at power or heart rate. Now I'd go entirely, I feel. And have you worked with a number of different coaches since you got started? Are you with the same coach all along? With the same coach, yeah. So is there a tough love or is it kind of a softly, softly? Yeah, again, it's a bit about like, he is very straight talking. He's got a lot of general lifestyles wisdom as well as, you know, puzzle wisdom about the store. I'm quite surprised about like I get away with doing my own thing quite a lot. So I'm quite happy telling him, like, you know, I'm talking about my training plan, like, oh, I feel like doing this, can we incorporate this, that and the other? So, you know, like the other day I went on a hike instead of riding my bike and yeah no qualms with that and like, you know, overlook down, you know, substituting a few bike rides for a few runs and things like that. So he will have a plan and then I will tell him what I want out of it. And so then it becomes like a compromise. So let's talk about when you got into road racing for the first time because I think for anyone that's trying to make that transition from, they've done a bunch of sporty and they're looking at road race and whether it's men's or women's and they're looking at and going oh my god that looks so crazy especially if somebody has to start at the bottom category which if it's your first event you will. How intimidating is that experience or can you remember your first road race? Yeah I do I was terrified because I thought it was going to be like marathon running where you could do one race a year and then that was it so. I entered one race and I hung off the back the entire time because I never ridden in like a pellet and before so I was terrified and there was like you know crashes left right and centre and I got caught in a crash and so I just hung off the back the entire time and when I finished everyone was like whoa is this like is this mad cow like he's just to keep a time trial of her way around like 60 miles. And then, so they kept telling me I needed a team. So when I applied for teams, I was like, oh, I did this one race. And we're like, oh, we need you to have done more than one race, you know, you can take it off. I was caught on the team.

5.Literally googled women's races and September and came across the…

So I literally googled women's races and September and came across the Rossnabon. So my second race was Rossnabon. Your second race is the Rossnabon. We just for international viewers, That's like a four-day international stage race, or is it five days? Yeah, so it's five stages, yeah, and four days. Yeah, and I hung off the back and timed-riled my way around the Rossman one. And that's how I go into racing. So yeah, that's how I got a spot on the team. So everyone can believe that I actually finished. So how long did it take you before you felt comfortable riding in the middle of the bunch where people are actually... Oh, God Earth a long time. So I don't know, maybe two to an half years. I think I'm still getting used to it now. It's one that's ever evolving. You're not giving that much hope to the new companies here. But either there's always more of that. You can always get a little bit better. And I think I just jumped into the deep end rather quickly. So in that first year of racing, I was already doing UCI races. So I've gone from literally nothing, like just commuting to work to UCI races in space the year. Because the skills do get more and more advanced. like for someone starting off at a local race, there's not really how a pilot team tactics going on there. It's more just follow wheels. But as you start stepping up, you need to learn all these new, you need to figure out how to lead riders out, which you need to figure out how to ride crosswinds, how did this end that's being in the bunch. And I suppose it's constantly in apprenticeship. Yeah, definitely. Definitely like you never stop learning. And I think even just as an individual racer is, you race more and more and more. you know, you're, I don't know, you're a four races, you know, you're gonna be like this far away from the next rider and then, you know, as you get up, it's like everyone moves slightly closer until you're literally like touching knuckles with people. And I don't know, it's like being a fish in like a big school. It's like, you know, it's a little gap in you. It's just getting used to all that weaving in and out. And I don't know. Yeah, it's just... I also think that in the bunch, if you're... People are always asking me like, well, how do you stay in like the top 10 in the bunch? But the bunch is like a dynamic creature. Like if you're not moving forward, you're moving backwards. There's no like staying intent. Yeah, it's learning to read it. There you go and learning to read the bunch in different weather conditions and across different terrains and things like that. So you constantly, your mind's constantly going. Do you have to crash there at a dream? Yes, where you're like a touch wheels in the dream and then you wake up abruptly as you hit the ground? I haven't had that yet, no. You're not a road, yeah. They're getting that recording dream. No, I'm pretty good for not crashing actually, Touchwood. Yeah, you screwed yourself there with the jinx. I think I have. Let's talk about time trials because you came into the sport almost as accidentally practicing your time trials for gas in and out to work. And you've obviously been, you've been National Time Trial Champion and there's so much goes to the time trial from training specific for us to the kitchenware and to arrow fit, helmet, tires, chains. How much do you geek out on the tech side of it? Oh, I love it. I think that really helps actually, like, because I love the sport. It's like a big evolutionary arms race. It's, you know, that one person does something, you know, you've got to keep one up in each other. Yeah, I love it. And I love knowing how the bike works. and it makes you think beyond just pushing the pedals like. So what time trial bike are you riding? So I've got a S position at all. So if I had to give advice to somebody regards position, it would probably be learning to keep your head down. I think that's probably the biggest one. You see even riders, you know, you metal at national championships. They'll have a beautiful bike set, but then they don't practice riding in that position. And so after a time like you see that, they'll look like this and like their beautiful photos on Instagram nice and sharp and then in a race boat. Oh, it's like they've got this big floppy head in the wind and you know. Every time I've done a error test, that's like the one takeaway.

6.Spend like 1500 euro or something or if you're in a national squad,…

You spend like 1500 euro or something or if you're in a national squad, you spend your day doing an error test and and someone like, oh what did you learn? You're like keep your head down. That's like, yeah, golden rule. I could just say anything. Yeah, think about that before thinking about any fancy changes. Everyone looks to you know all the expensive, you know, fiddly bets that something as simple as just keeping your head down and you know, your golden. Have you looked I hope that the Torah choices. Hi choices, only recently. Yes, that was only something that I did this year. So what are you running? Vittoria quarter speed. Nice, fast tower. Leg techs and attudes as well. Yeah, like I said, that was any this year I started doing that. And that was maybe only the last couple of time trial. So I don't know if there's much of a difference yet. I can't tell. I'm sure. I used to fully geek out on it where I'd have my tubular tarot, like up in the attic age and like a wine, where I'd have like, because if you leave them age and in the dark for a while, the rubber gets real supple on them. So I'd have them labeled like, this is my tarot for three years from now. This is my tarot from four years from now. And I'd have them sitting in the attic, like a tarot connoisseur. Yeah, yeah. I suppose a salary changes you and things you can fiddle with for time trials. Like, I always thought there'd always be something else that I could do first before I thought about that sort of thing, because the marginal differences are getting like, you know, smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. So I thought, you know, start with the big things I can control and then the more I refine them, you know, the more I can work down to. But I think 100%. That's the big, you've just hit on the biggest mistake I say, writers, when they want to get into time trial and they start spending all their energy on focus on the little thing, like, they're, I'm getting messages about like the Troy rig break versus is somewhat a break over and you're like, you know, your position, like you're up like this and you haven't looked at you at all. No, I want people to keep their head down. It's such an easy way to go fast. I done a time trial course a couple of years ago, I recorded with David Miller, the British time trialist and we were over in Bristol and we'd kind of, we'd two days of film and just time trial tips and we were chatting and I had this whole bit talking about aerodynamics and I was thinking he was gonna geek out coefficient of frontal drag because he's quite a nerdy guy. And then he just kind of, before the camera said, he's like, don't know what we're going to talk about here. He's like, basically, if you look fast, you're air fast. I was like, yeah, yeah, it's true that even what we need to, we need to buffer this out a bit like, yeah, I've heard that a few times, if it looks fast, it is fast. And yeah, there's something to that you can tell most of the time. I mean, obviously, there's more to it than that bit, you know, and for someone doing a local 10 what's kind of the big two or three things you would help the focus on for speed, for beating their friends? Oh good question, I don't know. I'd say practice you pacing, so that's a big one. So a lot of people, especially in our days in Smithdon things like that, they'll have an idea of what their FTP is but that's just a theoretical number, it doesn't mean you can actually go out and hold it straight away. So I think a lot of people start, I mean, I'm still guilty of this, so it's really, it's probably rich coming from me, but setting up like an absolute hero at the start of the ride and dying off. What you want to do is start just a little bit too easy and then build and that's how you'll get your fastest time because you can always wrench yourself for a minute at the end, you know, I mean, when you know the last sort of kilometers coming up, if you do that at the start, you know it's game over so pacing is number one and then yeah number two is like head down and then number three I don't know um I wouldn't I don't actually concentrate on beating my friends because I can only do what I can do I can't control anyone else so I'd say maybe just that would be my third bit of advice is forget anyone else's there and just do your own ride.

7.Have you noticed because you touched on that with WIFT and…

So have you noticed because you touched on that with WIFT and everybody's a hero now on Zwift and you know I'm getting beaten by local cath4 dudes who I've never seen or heard of and taking all of a sudden whole 420 watts for an hour. FTP is for anyone who hasn't ridden a time trial bike or you're just starting because time trial is going to get such a bump this year I feel with COVID and everybody's looking at buying time trial bikes. Your FTP on your road bike and your FTP when you're like full talk, they may not be the same number. No, again, that's very important to practice riding in that position. The way you bend over and you stretch in your back and your arse muscles in completely different ways. It feels different and it takes a few rides to get used to. Yeah, and I think it closes off that hip flexor angle as well because you're just coming right down on yourself. I've seen riders, world-to-all riders have seen their power foils and they're losing like 90 watts difference from riding out of the saddle up to side of a mountain and time trial bike with the restricted hip flexor angle. You're touching on pacing there. Have you used anything like my best bike's bliss? No, I know people who have, again, it's just consistency, just practice. I'll do it in training. Like I go out on my time trial bike, I put it on the turbo and I would just like focus on just holding the same slit. And then when it comes to race day, you know how it should feel and so again that's where feel comes in for me but I've seen people use things like my best bike split and there's other like softwares you can use that predict what what you should hold for a given terrain or where the condition but I think personally that's just going too much into it because on the day like if you feel a bit crappy you're not going to be able to hold what you think you can hold and that's when you crack yourself and yeah I think it can be a hindrance as much as a game using all these things and yeah I totally agree with you on that Because the worst thing you can do is like I've gone out on days video and intervals like 380 watts and I felt amazed and like I could push on and and other days I'm riding a 360 and I feel like the wheels are going to completely come off and it's not on the day. But where I find something like I haven't used my best bike split, but I've seen some crazy stories of the accuracy at prediction times where I'm a little bit intrigued about it is. So if you have an out and back 10, which you're well used to doing in the UK, and you've like a block headwind block tailwinds, so you adjust for something like that your pacing strategy or do you go more off field and Oh, good question. Yeah, I'd go on feel again. And I think I would note push just a time like to save myself just a little bit for a headwind section and try and push just a little bit harder. But I think it depends on the course and what you can hold because if you can go, I say it's like five kilometers into a headwind or something, you know you can really overshoot, but if you're going, say it's a 25 mile TT and you're going, I don't know, home the entire way in a headwind, then you may as well just ride it through a threshold because you're not going to be able to go over. So it's the case of knowing the course. Yeah, definitely, because I see that's a mistake that people make that they try and pay something like that in a linear distribution. and you're like, there's no point, you can only go so fast in a tailwind, like whether you're doing tree ten watts or 480 watts. Like, I'm not going to go down the road at 90 kilometers an hour. Like, so, a bike only goes so fast. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, sometimes it'd probably be worth actually like saving a little bit of energy. I did do one time trial this year that was exactly like that. The tailwind section out was so fast, I didn't touch the pedals and I think I averaged 34 mile an hour. I thought I was going to set a new national record. I was absolutely buzzing. I turned round and it was straight back down to 18 miles an hour. So here it's zero. Which is still pretty fast.

8.On skin-to-choices, how much choices do you feel like there's a…

On skin-to-choices, how much choices do you feel like there's a fastest one? Or is it right? Our preference are very much body shape determinant. Oh, good question. So that's the kind of thing that I think we definitely need measuring. That's you can't tell intuitively. I think it comes up to a point even I Don't know he's even said the skin suit that we wear this been 11 one for You know Irish races that on me is a little bit loose and it goes against all conventional wisdom that would say you know Skin suits got to be like, you know super super tight But where it's loose it sort of like straightens off any angles in my body so it's actually faster So I tried a war in the tunnel. And so you would put it on and think, oh, it's really backy, like, it can't be a good suit, but it was the fastest one that I tested. That's the one that we've got just because of the way it sits. So that's the kind of thing that I think you could only find out with, you know, some kind of measurement involved. But if it makes you feel good, then, you know, you'll probably go fast. I think that is a big thing. I remember back in the day, and I, before I came into cycling, I had a soccer manager, he fined me for having dirty football boots. And I couldn't see the sense in this because I was like, well, the boots are gonna get dirty and go now onto a grass pitch. Like, why am I getting fined? And he's like, well, if you go into the nightclub, like with dirty clothes, dirty shoes, you're not gonna feel good. Who are you gonna attract? Not someone very good. He's like, if you feel good, you look good, you're gonna perform well. And it's definitely something that I've taken into cycling. If you have a clean bike, if everything's looking cool, you're gonna feel better and perform better. Yeah, and I think that just filters down to a general mentality to sort of be a little bit meticulous, if your meticulous, you'll say, if your equipment's looked after, so I think that's just, I don't know, a spillover effect, I think. Have you tried chopping the arms off your skin sills? Don't you want to leave? Yeah, I feel so crazy doing that. When we do that, race is like hacking them off with the nail scissors that we've got. Yeah, I don't know. That was faster for me and hacked them off and then like taped it up with insulate and tape a brand new speed suit. I was like, no. Oh, you were allowed to do that. I don't think, I didn't think you were allowed to tape them up, isn't that? Because it's a modification, although technically cutting them up is a modification. Yeah, actually, you're probably right. Again, we maybe we just both screwed ourselves, sorry. It's all to me about your race day nutrition. Okay, Rodman, that was our little sneak peek at one of our speakers, Kelly Morphe from this year's Roadman Cycling Virtual Performance Summit. That's a mouthful, isn't it? Roadman Cycling Virtual Performance Summit. It sounds cool as fuck and it is. I absolutely can't wait for it. Make sure you secure your free ticket. When you do, you're going to get the full interview of Kelly along with interviews from another 29 amazing speakers from physiotherapists to bike fidders to world-tore-roiders to it's just phenomenal it's off the hook go get a ticket now I'm gonna chat to you again tomorrow thanks for listening roadman roadman before you go I've got an important announcement to make because over two days and the eight and nineth of December I'm gonna speak with 30 of the world's leading fitness experts and I want you to join me free of charge from the comfort of your own home this This is the first ever Roadman Virtual Performance Summit for aiming to bring together the best minds and fitness and they're going to share with me their secrets for biohacking your physiology, melting away body fat and smashing your cycling goals. Would you like to learn their secrets? It's easy. All you have to do is register for your free ticket over at www.roadmansummit.com forward slash free. That's www.roadmansummit.com forward slash free. The link is in the bio.