My power zones look like, my Lattake's done for a straight line. So if you've ever had yours done, you'll know it's a curve. It's because I used to just hammer hard for like 20 minutes every day, flat line. Were you using heart rate, power, anything or how soon did you get there out of the tools like that? Yeah, it was whenever I started using a kettle, like, when I had a coach because I would just go off field before that. So, you know, if I felt good, I'd go hard or go long. If I had the time and then if I felt a little bit tired, you just knock it off the touch. I think training really is as simple as that, like just listening to yourself. So I think that's a skill a lot of people miss and you're trying to, because now everybody has to have a parameter, like almost every A4 category four of you in the US has a parameter. And before it was only the elite guys had a parameter, but you kind of learned to listen to your body. Now people are nearly neglect and that's all it, a listener to their body. Yeah, so I think it's all relative, like it's okay now what what you're putting out, but it depends, you know, if it feels good, if it feels hardly, you know, terrible, and it depends what you're aiming for, but you know, what's or what it's, you know, your indication of fitness and how well you're going in yourself, you know, realizing entirely on your being honest with yourself and how it feels. So you made that jump from amateur to national squad, basically with no guidance, with no structure, that was just you going out riding on feel. Yeah, more or less. But I think a lot of that is, I was very much in the right place in the right time as well. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of people out there who haven't had the same opportunities as me who were just as good. So I think it's a balance between trying hard, the right mentality and simply being lucky. What did that week look like for you? So you said you were writing in now to work, but were you writing on the weekends? How long were you writing on the weekends? Group rides? Yeah, so I was writing with a group. So I'd go, you know, Saturday and Sunday, the standard sort of, you know, what I think a lot of people do two and a half hours, that kind of thing. But I wasn't really focusing on being a pro rider. was just something I did because I loved it. Did you find it difficult to get, like I know so many my friends who are girls and they want to get into the sport, but they're really tiptoey into the sport because if you look at like the makeup of a typical group, right, it's almost anywhere in the world. It's predominantly males. Is that intimidating? No, not really. I mean, I think it depends on who you are as a person. Like I wouldn't be intimidated by it just because I already happened to know a lot of men and be friends of them like a group in a family mostly and then like, so it didn't bother me and you start chanting people and you know, they're fairly easy to get on with and there'd be such an array of characters on a group by that I would never have had the chance to meet. I found it intriguing. So I don't know, I suppose it could be intimidating, I guess if you're not used to it, but I didn't really see a problem with it and I think a lot of them wouldn't. Were you coming from a background in another sport? So I ran, so I did marathon running, but that again, I didn't run for a club or anything. I did it just as a hobby. Were you fast in the example? I think eventually I was kind of getting there. I did, my fastest marathon was three hours, two minutes. That's pretty fast. Yeah, so three hours is the barometer for being a decent amateur and I missed it by two minutes. Yeah, you're going to go from jogger to runner at around three hours, that's it. Yeah, exactly, that's it. So you were coming across to the sport with a good fitness base from another sport. But I know one of the things I see you from Girls Message on Instagram saying they're trying to get into it. One of their big hang ups is insecurity around the kit and like cycling kit is not flattering at the best of times. You were obviously coming from another sport.
Good question. So I'd probably do six days on the bike and then I'd probably do somewhere between three and three and a half hours. Like fairly easy in the minute. So you're kind of like 18 hours or so? Yeah, yeah, that would be a good week. Yeah, and then some gym. Quite a chunk of a week. Yeah, like and then when you had like, you know, focusing or like aiming for a specific day like that can go up to maybe 25, I think the most have done is 30 hours in a week. But that's not very often. That's not true. Do you find your body responds well to high volume training like that? Yeah, I think it depends on who you are. I cope well with a lot of training like in, I race well with a little bit of fatigue in my legs or as I know a lot of other people need to be a little bit more targeted and they need a little bit more rest. So I think that's one of the things that you need to experiment with. Yeah. You spoke about kind of understanding your body when you were getting started and kind of just knowing how to intuitively pace those type of efforts. Do you find now that you like kind of rely on the parameter and the heart rate monitor or do you still like to go out and just ride off air? It's a little bit of both. I mean, some days are going to be easier than others but a lot of the thing you know, I say if I'm coming into the race a lot of the sessions I'll have will be very specific. So I always think, I don't know, you've just kind of be sensible. Some days it doesn't really matter what you think you've just got to get the session done. So I think sometimes you can, you know, you can wind yourself up, sometimes it'll feel a little bit hard, or I don't know, it's about balancing all three, I think. But when I race, I wouldn't look at power or heart rate. Now I'd go entirely, I feel. And have you worked with a number of different coaches since you got started? Are you with the same coach all along? With the same coach, yeah. So is there a tough love or is it kind of a softly, softly? Yeah, again, it's a bit about like, he is very straight talking. He's got a lot of general lifestyles wisdom as well as, you know, puzzle wisdom about the store. I'm quite surprised about like I get away with doing my own thing quite a lot. So I'm quite happy telling him, like, you know, I'm talking about my training plan, like, oh, I feel like doing this, can we incorporate this, that and the other? So, you know, like the other day I went on a hike instead of riding my bike and yeah no qualms with that and like, you know, overlook down, you know, substituting a few bike rides for a few runs and things like that. So he will have a plan and then I will tell him what I want out of it. And so then it becomes like a compromise. So let's talk about when you got into road racing for the first time because I think for anyone that's trying to make that transition from, they've done a bunch of sporty and they're looking at road race and whether it's men's or women's and they're looking at and going oh my god that looks so crazy especially if somebody has to start at the bottom category which if it's your first event you will. How intimidating is that experience or can you remember your first road race? Yeah I do I was terrified because I thought it was going to be like marathon running where you could do one race a year and then that was it so. I entered one race and I hung off the back the entire time because I never ridden in like a pellet and before so I was terrified and there was like you know crashes left right and centre and I got caught in a crash and so I just hung off the back the entire time and when I finished everyone was like whoa is this like is this mad cow like he's just to keep a time trial of her way around like 60 miles. And then, so they kept telling me I needed a team. So when I applied for teams, I was like, oh, I did this one race. And we're like, oh, we need you to have done more than one race, you know, you can take it off. I was caught on the team.
So I literally googled women's races and September and came across the Rossnabon. So my second race was Rossnabon. Your second race is the Rossnabon. We just for international viewers, That's like a four-day international stage race, or is it five days? Yeah, so it's five stages, yeah, and four days. Yeah, and I hung off the back and timed-riled my way around the Rossman one. And that's how I go into racing. So yeah, that's how I got a spot on the team. So everyone can believe that I actually finished. So how long did it take you before you felt comfortable riding in the middle of the bunch where people are actually... Oh, God Earth a long time. So I don't know, maybe two to an half years. I think I'm still getting used to it now. It's one that's ever evolving. You're not giving that much hope to the new companies here. But either there's always more of that. You can always get a little bit better. And I think I just jumped into the deep end rather quickly. So in that first year of racing, I was already doing UCI races. So I've gone from literally nothing, like just commuting to work to UCI races in space the year. Because the skills do get more and more advanced. like for someone starting off at a local race, there's not really how a pilot team tactics going on there. It's more just follow wheels. But as you start stepping up, you need to learn all these new, you need to figure out how to lead riders out, which you need to figure out how to ride crosswinds, how did this end that's being in the bunch. And I suppose it's constantly in apprenticeship. Yeah, definitely. Definitely like you never stop learning. And I think even just as an individual racer is, you race more and more and more. you know, you're, I don't know, you're a four races, you know, you're gonna be like this far away from the next rider and then, you know, as you get up, it's like everyone moves slightly closer until you're literally like touching knuckles with people. And I don't know, it's like being a fish in like a big school. It's like, you know, it's a little gap in you. It's just getting used to all that weaving in and out. And I don't know. Yeah, it's just... I also think that in the bunch, if you're... People are always asking me like, well, how do you stay in like the top 10 in the bunch? But the bunch is like a dynamic creature. Like if you're not moving forward, you're moving backwards. There's no like staying intent. Yeah, it's learning to read it. There you go and learning to read the bunch in different weather conditions and across different terrains and things like that. So you constantly, your mind's constantly going. Do you have to crash there at a dream? Yes, where you're like a touch wheels in the dream and then you wake up abruptly as you hit the ground? I haven't had that yet, no. You're not a road, yeah. They're getting that recording dream. No, I'm pretty good for not crashing actually, Touchwood. Yeah, you screwed yourself there with the jinx. I think I have. Let's talk about time trials because you came into the sport almost as accidentally practicing your time trials for gas in and out to work. And you've obviously been, you've been National Time Trial Champion and there's so much goes to the time trial from training specific for us to the kitchenware and to arrow fit, helmet, tires, chains. How much do you geek out on the tech side of it? Oh, I love it. I think that really helps actually, like, because I love the sport. It's like a big evolutionary arms race. It's, you know, that one person does something, you know, you've got to keep one up in each other. Yeah, I love it. And I love knowing how the bike works. and it makes you think beyond just pushing the pedals like. So what time trial bike are you riding? So I've got a S position at all. So if I had to give advice to somebody regards position, it would probably be learning to keep your head down. I think that's probably the biggest one. You see even riders, you know, you metal at national championships. They'll have a beautiful bike set, but then they don't practice riding in that position. And so after a time like you see that, they'll look like this and like their beautiful photos on Instagram nice and sharp and then in a race boat. Oh, it's like they've got this big floppy head in the wind and you know. Every time I've done a error test, that's like the one takeaway.
You spend like 1500 euro or something or if you're in a national squad, you spend your day doing an error test and and someone like, oh what did you learn? You're like keep your head down. That's like, yeah, golden rule. I could just say anything. Yeah, think about that before thinking about any fancy changes. Everyone looks to you know all the expensive, you know, fiddly bets that something as simple as just keeping your head down and you know, your golden. Have you looked I hope that the Torah choices. Hi choices, only recently. Yes, that was only something that I did this year. So what are you running? Vittoria quarter speed. Nice, fast tower. Leg techs and attudes as well. Yeah, like I said, that was any this year I started doing that. And that was maybe only the last couple of time trial. So I don't know if there's much of a difference yet. I can't tell. I'm sure. I used to fully geek out on it where I'd have my tubular tarot, like up in the attic age and like a wine, where I'd have like, because if you leave them age and in the dark for a while, the rubber gets real supple on them. So I'd have them labeled like, this is my tarot for three years from now. This is my tarot from four years from now. And I'd have them sitting in the attic, like a tarot connoisseur. Yeah, yeah. I suppose a salary changes you and things you can fiddle with for time trials. Like, I always thought there'd always be something else that I could do first before I thought about that sort of thing, because the marginal differences are getting like, you know, smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. So I thought, you know, start with the big things I can control and then the more I refine them, you know, the more I can work down to. But I think 100%. That's the big, you've just hit on the biggest mistake I say, writers, when they want to get into time trial and they start spending all their energy on focus on the little thing, like, they're, I'm getting messages about like the Troy rig break versus is somewhat a break over and you're like, you know, your position, like you're up like this and you haven't looked at you at all. No, I want people to keep their head down. It's such an easy way to go fast. I done a time trial course a couple of years ago, I recorded with David Miller, the British time trialist and we were over in Bristol and we'd kind of, we'd two days of film and just time trial tips and we were chatting and I had this whole bit talking about aerodynamics and I was thinking he was gonna geek out coefficient of frontal drag because he's quite a nerdy guy. And then he just kind of, before the camera said, he's like, don't know what we're going to talk about here. He's like, basically, if you look fast, you're air fast. I was like, yeah, yeah, it's true that even what we need to, we need to buffer this out a bit like, yeah, I've heard that a few times, if it looks fast, it is fast. And yeah, there's something to that you can tell most of the time. I mean, obviously, there's more to it than that bit, you know, and for someone doing a local 10 what's kind of the big two or three things you would help the focus on for speed, for beating their friends? Oh good question, I don't know. I'd say practice you pacing, so that's a big one. So a lot of people, especially in our days in Smithdon things like that, they'll have an idea of what their FTP is but that's just a theoretical number, it doesn't mean you can actually go out and hold it straight away. So I think a lot of people start, I mean, I'm still guilty of this, so it's really, it's probably rich coming from me, but setting up like an absolute hero at the start of the ride and dying off. What you want to do is start just a little bit too easy and then build and that's how you'll get your fastest time because you can always wrench yourself for a minute at the end, you know, I mean, when you know the last sort of kilometers coming up, if you do that at the start, you know it's game over so pacing is number one and then yeah number two is like head down and then number three I don't know um I wouldn't I don't actually concentrate on beating my friends because I can only do what I can do I can't control anyone else so I'd say maybe just that would be my third bit of advice is forget anyone else's there and just do your own ride.
On skin-to-choices, how much choices do you feel like there's a fastest one? Or is it right? Our preference are very much body shape determinant. Oh, good question. So that's the kind of thing that I think we definitely need measuring. That's you can't tell intuitively. I think it comes up to a point even I Don't know he's even said the skin suit that we wear this been 11 one for You know Irish races that on me is a little bit loose and it goes against all conventional wisdom that would say you know Skin suits got to be like, you know super super tight But where it's loose it sort of like straightens off any angles in my body so it's actually faster So I tried a war in the tunnel. And so you would put it on and think, oh, it's really backy, like, it can't be a good suit, but it was the fastest one that I tested. That's the one that we've got just because of the way it sits. So that's the kind of thing that I think you could only find out with, you know, some kind of measurement involved. But if it makes you feel good, then, you know, you'll probably go fast. I think that is a big thing. I remember back in the day, and I, before I came into cycling, I had a soccer manager, he fined me for having dirty football boots. And I couldn't see the sense in this because I was like, well, the boots are gonna get dirty and go now onto a grass pitch. Like, why am I getting fined? And he's like, well, if you go into the nightclub, like with dirty clothes, dirty shoes, you're not gonna feel good. Who are you gonna attract? Not someone very good. He's like, if you feel good, you look good, you're gonna perform well. And it's definitely something that I've taken into cycling. If you have a clean bike, if everything's looking cool, you're gonna feel better and perform better. Yeah, and I think that just filters down to a general mentality to sort of be a little bit meticulous, if your meticulous, you'll say, if your equipment's looked after, so I think that's just, I don't know, a spillover effect, I think. Have you tried chopping the arms off your skin sills? Don't you want to leave? Yeah, I feel so crazy doing that. When we do that, race is like hacking them off with the nail scissors that we've got. Yeah, I don't know. That was faster for me and hacked them off and then like taped it up with insulate and tape a brand new speed suit. I was like, no. Oh, you were allowed to do that. I don't think, I didn't think you were allowed to tape them up, isn't that? Because it's a modification, although technically cutting them up is a modification. Yeah, actually, you're probably right. Again, we maybe we just both screwed ourselves, sorry. It's all to me about your race day nutrition. Okay, Rodman, that was our little sneak peek at one of our speakers, Kelly Morphe from this year's Roadman Cycling Virtual Performance Summit. That's a mouthful, isn't it? Roadman Cycling Virtual Performance Summit. It sounds cool as fuck and it is. I absolutely can't wait for it. Make sure you secure your free ticket. When you do, you're going to get the full interview of Kelly along with interviews from another 29 amazing speakers from physiotherapists to bike fidders to world-tore-roiders to it's just phenomenal it's off the hook go get a ticket now I'm gonna chat to you again tomorrow thanks for listening roadman roadman before you go I've got an important announcement to make because over two days and the eight and nineth of December I'm gonna speak with 30 of the world's leading fitness experts and I want you to join me free of charge from the comfort of your own home this This is the first ever Roadman Virtual Performance Summit for aiming to bring together the best minds and fitness and they're going to share with me their secrets for biohacking your physiology, melting away body fat and smashing your cycling goals. Would you like to learn their secrets? It's easy. All you have to do is register for your free ticket over at www.roadmansummit.com forward slash free. That's www.roadmansummit.com forward slash free. The link is in the bio.