1.Felt like I was capable of winning that sprint

I felt like I was capable of winning that sprint. I felt like I was the valvary that opened up super early and played right into my hands and I went from thinking I was going to win this thing to when the last about 50 meters, I really just cramped up total electrolyte deficiency cramp. And if you even watch the race finish, I basically sit down. I couldn't keep my calf turning over. or just total cramp and so is just this like, I saw winning the World Championships in the last 200 meters of the race. I saw it, I could feel it, and then it was gone. The big question is this. How do we use cycling as a tool to improve our health or happiness on our long journey? That is the question on this podcast, and give you the answers. My name is Anthony Welch, Welcome to Roadman Podcast. Welcome back Roadman to another Roadman Podcast. Yeah, there we go. Me singing again. Shocking stuff, shocking stuff. It's getting almost cliche at this stage for me to say, but I've got another unreal guest today. You don't get to stand on the podium in the elite world championship road race unless you are an absolute hitter. Today I'm talking to Canadian Michael Woods. It's funny because although I didn't know Mike before this interview, our Pat's ran parallel for quite a little bit so I've always followed him with a little bit more interest. Someone that I kind of thought, you know what, with a different rub of the green, maybe that could have been me or who knows, maybe I was just dreaming. But anyway, he's a super interesting guy and he takes us inside, You know, not only what it takes to come back from his current injury at the moment, which is pretty horrific But also the dedication to stand on the world championship podium and what it's like to inspire a nation because Let's face it if you're Canadian and you're listening to this you're not noted as a cycling culture and Steve Bowers there a writer how she does there Mike Barrie There's been a couple of stand-out writers through the years but I can list them on one hand and Mike is definitely up there as somebody who is inspiring of future generations and that's really cool. Obviously the mantra on this podcast is health, happiness and longevity and we dig a lot into that with Mike as he tries to explain to me how he's going to keep cycling a part of his life long after his world tour days are over. Fascinating insight into one of the best riders in the world. Before I jump into that, let me just tell you about our Patreon account because Patreon is how I keep this podcast going. A big thank you to anyone who's already subscribed over on Patreon and if you haven't, please do check it out. It is patreon.com forward slash Anthony underscore watch. The reason to set up the Patreon is to make this podcast sustainable. It's so I can cover costs and keep this podcast coming to you week after week with these top quality guests. So if you're enjoying the content and you're saying to yourself, you know what, it's pretty cool that Anthony's connected me in this conversation with one of the best writers in the world. If you'd be willing to buoy me a point of beer to say tanks, if you'd be willing to buoy me a coffee to say tanks for the owner, that's what Patreon is. So it's, I'm going to leave the Patreon link in the description down below, but it's patreon.com forward slash Anthony underscore watch. And you can make a small donation, which might seem small to you, but it means a massive, massive amount to me on this podcast. Thank you guys in advance. Now I'm going to jump in to the juicy base, Canadian Mike Woods from EF education. Mike Woods, welcome to the roadman podcast. Thanks for having me. How are you Mike? I'm doing well. I'm I'm in lockdown here in Drona at the moment. Sit in my house, it's pissing rain outside. And longing for some nice weather and a moment when I can get back out of my bike. How's your injury? It's coming along quite well. I broke my femur now six weeks ago tomorrow and I'm allowed to start weight-bearing tomorrow. So a big milestone tomorrow and yeah, sick of not being able to walk, but I'm really happy with how much my progress has been made. I'm really fortunate to have some great sponsors and the team behind me. I've got a UK based physio that's been allowed to come and visit me on almost a daily basis as well as a massage therapist that's really kind of lighten the load for my wife and help my recovery. And yeah, I've made big routes, so it's been nice to see that progress. Mike, how are we? It's 2000 and so are Dan. I took an awful long drive from Toronto all the way across to Ottawa. Race started at 7am in the morning, I slept shit on someone's couch the night before and I went into the climb, position perfect and then some skinny little lad wearing a garnell kit hit it right at the base of the climb. Fifteen minutes later I was in the car.

2.Skinny little dude was you and I've had a rush against you ever since

That skinny little dude was you and I've had a rush against you ever since. So your race was this 2013. Oh, was it your WC grand prix? Yes. Maybe. Yeah. Did you win that thing? No, no, I don't think so. Or maybe it wasn't an OVC grand prix. It was in a park? Yeah, good. In the Gatineau grand prix. Gatineau grand prix. With Bruno. I want we want one to Bruno Langua, Waden and I was second. And I remember going into it on like big we're talking about a mutual friend. We have Anton. I remember Anton going past me and saying like, who let the whale go and I was like yeah that was me. They just cleaned up me off the whale. Yeah I had no race tactics at that point but I had the lungs, I had the legs and I tried to use every feature possible to just make the races hard just so I could prove myself and move up. So it's funny because although we never really chatted our way or never buddies or anything because I raced against you a little bit. I kind of followed your journey a little bit closer than I would a regular World Tour dude. Even that year, I think I raced toward a boats as well. I can't remember. I think you were top 10 overall in that year. Yeah, yeah, I was a bit heavy, hanging out too much with Bruno Langua. Bruce, a great guy, but loves the beers. And I still wasn't really focused full time on cycling and I was still working full time and just kind of doing this more for fun as opposed to trying to make it somewhere. And yeah, look at pictures of me going up and gigantic tour de boats, which is the main climb. Oh, dude, I'm so hurt. Yeah, and just looking at pictures and then comparing them to me now. Uh, I was pretty overweight, uh, but I still managed to do well and, uh, turns them heads and, and, uh, start progressing in the sport. But how'd you got a clue back then? Like, did you dream that it was going to be this big? Yes. And now like I started, I started with the quiet. I didn't tell anybody really this minus my coach at the time that I, I was getting into the sport because I wanted to try and make the Olympics. I'd made the, I achieved the Olympic standard for the 1500 years, the B standard for the 1500 meters, but just kept on getting injured and running. And so I was just chasing after this dream still of going to the Olympics and cycling was, I was hoping would fit that goal, would enable me to get it to the Olympics. So I started with that ambition, but as I started riding, started realizing how difficult that would actually be. But along the road, I was fortunate enough to run into a couple of people, particularly when I, my first year where I was really racing properly on Garno, I ran into my now coach, Paul Sedania, who told me to quit my job, focus on cycling, he'd sort out some funding for me, and yeah, I was, because of guys like him that I'm not in the world for. Because before you went to Guernau, you had a successful running career. You were two-tales in the foyer, I think, were you the junior Canadian, fastest mile, fastest 3,000 meters. And I think if you're fastest in the world, at some point, you're 23. Yeah, as a junior, I ran the fastest time in the world for the mile, won the Pan American Junior Championships and was supposed to be the next big thing in cycling, but sorry in running but I just didn't have the right mindset at that time I was too invested in cycling. I started to invest in running, too invested in the wrong things. I owe it was over training. My dad was terrible, had bad guidance and I was 19. Was your dad coaching you? Sorry, my dad. Oh, your dog, sorry I said your dog's terrible. It's like, no, I'm going to get heavy right here. My parents were fantastic. I'm really fortunate to have great parents. They've always just been super supportive, but yeah, I know my diet was not great and there are a lot of factors that led to me just continually breaking my left navicular bone to the point where I couldn't raise anymore. Which are sort of world-to-our knowledge on diet and preparation and everything like that. Do you think if you had employed that to run on, we would look at a very different outcome? Certainly. I'm especially with the support network that I have now, the coaching that I have now, and just the experience and confidence that I have now. I didn't have that when I was 19. And for a number of reasons, I didn't have that. But I'm fortunate that I didn't have that because I wouldn't have found cycling in the end. And for me, it's been a really, really nice term of events to be in this sport. And enjoying has something that, like as you explained to me earlier, how you love riding. I'm in the same category. I love what I do. And I feel really fortunate to be in this sport. So you kind of went off my radar then from I finished up in 2014, kind of chasing that dream.

3.Kind of went off my radar then

And you kind of went off my radar then. I wasn't paying much attention. And you went to Kelly benefits or something like that. But you popped back onto my radar. I think it was 2016 on Wollongahil. Was it 2016? Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, what the fuck? How did he get so strong? Yeah, I went on a bit of a journey, to be honest. Had some setbacks when I was riding for Garno. I was doing OK, but I certainly didn't turn enough heads to really step up, although Garno was a continental team. Certainly not. They weren't certainly professional in any way, shape or form. Great, great continental, great development team. But yeah, they weren't the same level level as a Kelly benefits or rally or now will opt him at the time and now rally. They certainly weren't that tier of continental team. And just before I had a real opportunity to turn some heads, I was scheduled to do the World Tour races and Montreal and Quebec represent the national team. And then even potentially do the worlds in World Championship and Florence, I broke my car bomb. And so I wasn't able to go to those events, had some interest prior to the breaking of the collarbone, but all of a sudden, those interests dried up. Teams like strong continental teams like five hour energy at that time. Mike Creed, smart stop. And Rowley all had expressed interest, but no one signed me. And then I heard word that Garnell was going to do more of a focus on crits. So I was kind of left in this position where it was maybe I should no longer race or, you know, hey, stop. Yeah, move on. But then I was kind of thrown a lifeline by a Mortivita, this Italian continental team, which was kind of like the last chance you of cycling. That a Canadian director at the time, and they made me this ridiculously good offer that eventually they wouldn't follow up on. but they told me to come out to Europe and come to Italy and I could race and all these great races. It ended up being this crazy insane experience when I don't regret. Everyone always has an insane experience if one takes on it for Italian things. Yeah, particularly for Moravita. It was insane just from all levels. There was corruption, know crazy crazy stuff happening. Guys getting popped for doping and our bikes never worked and just the laundry list of crazy things that happened. However, in other ways, it was a lifeline like I did. I got this opportunity to race near. I learned a lot. And because of it, I came out a better rider halfway through the season. I managed to transfer off the team go to an American based team called Five Hour Energy. And then I got the ball, the one from there, really did well at the World Tour races in Montreal, Quebec. And they just signed for Optum the following year. I'm not an Optum. That's when I really earned my spot on Cannondale that you're following. Because when you... When you... When you got to a Utah and came second overall. So when you finally got the Cannondale, you've had a bit of a journey together. You're not young. No, no exactly. And I think in many ways it was... I didn't have to go through that journey as a runner. I was kind of like the, I guess I was level of Remco Evanple, but I was, you know, of that tier almost where you're just getting recruited by everybody, everybody wants you, and you don't have to really grind it out. You just get to the top, click because you're potential. But in cycling, I didn't have that luxury just because I was so old, I was so inexperienced, such a poor bike handler that I really had to grind it out. and I think it made me a better cyclist in the end, gave me more perspective and made me better adapted for what is the most important thing in the world to just being hard, being tough, being able to face adversity. So what's that step up like? Obviously I never got to make the step up to World Tour where you take a race like, you know, Tour de Bose where I would have said the last two stages of that, particularly the circuit races. They're tough races and they're technical and there's a lot of corners, a lot of twists. And then you go into the World Tour and you have the nickname, the Rook. I'm not sure if you even like the nickname. I love the nickname the rook. I love the last question. Especially because a lot of the guys that were calling me the rook were significantly younger than me. And so I always loved that. But I think that was one of the reasons why I was able to make sure it's a world tour too, is I was never ashamed to show that I didn't know a certain aspect of the sport. I was always willing to learn, even if the guy was 10 years my junior, I'd be willing to listen and glean knowledge from that person. But yeah, the step up was massive. You talked to a Bracek Tour De Bose versus the World Tour. The thing with the World Tour that I think a lot of people don't realize is that every guy in the World Tour can win a Tour De Bose.

4.It's just everybody there is a winner

It's just everybody there is a winner. have to get in order to get to the world tour, it's not that you can't be the it's not about being the best dumbest to get the lower levels it's about winning races. So every guy that's in the world tour is one races at the lower levels and is capable of when race at the lower levels and guys who are guys who are in the world tour are great at everything and significantly good at the city giving a better at one thing. Like you look at a guy like Swain Tuff for example who's I think maybe at that tour de Boast or maybe the year previous years there but in the world tour Swain was a guy that was considered a non-climber. He couldn't climb yet. It raced like tour boats. He's finishing within the top 10 on the gigantic and winning the overall. We see that here and when Cavendish comes back to the UK or something and it races a hilly circuit race. You're like he's a security fucking wins the hilly circuit races. Exactly. He gets made fun of for being a guy who can't climb within the world tour but the guy can climb. Like Kittle, for example, when he was in his prime for sprinting, a big boy, but man, he could even get over it, he was shocking how many times he'd get over it. Gripal, another example of that. It's like everybody can do everything in the world tour, but what keeps you in the world tour is being great at everything and then being great at one thing. But I thought that's so good for you, you're just name, drop and kettle, gripal, cough and dish, and you are one of these lads now. Well, I wouldn't put myself in the same category as the greatest sprinters in the world, but... Yeah, you stand on the podium in the world, which we'll get to. You've made it. You're one of the top boys in the world. Yeah, I really feel... Yeah, I feel like I still have a lot more to improve on in cycling. But, yeah, it is a bit surreal, especially because my goals... My initial goals in cycling were to never get to the level that I'm currently at. and it meant that I did, once I achieved the goal of making the Olympics, I really had to kind of sit down and re-shift, my focus, re-shift, my what I thought I was capable of. But ultimately, I just, I really enjoy what I'm doing and I don't spend too much time dwelling on where I stack against other guys, just focus more on enjoying the process and enjoying racing my bike. What's your career capable of now? I don't know. I mean, especially under the circumstances, under the current circumstances of the sport, I think things are going to change significantly in the next couple of months in the next years. I'm not sure if that will impact me in a positive or negative manner, but I'm really hoping that the Olympics continues and happens in 2021. I'm hoping the World Championship still goes forward in 2020 and based off of what I've done in the past and how my training was going prior to the injury and how I think I can respond from this injury. Those two races particular, two races I could have success at and I hope to meddle at. Are we going to have two speeds in the peloton when it comes back? We've some guys like you used in your own it in total lockdown, just trying to weigh on swift and even though Italy's been badly hit, the lads over there are still trying to. Yeah, totally. It all depends on when we start back up. If we start back up in four months, I don't think there'll be two speeds in the sense that once the lockdowns are lifted and there's some time to get back out and train, two months is at an adequate period of time for guys to get back up to speed. If anything, those that took some downtime will probably be even more rejuvenated and ready to go. I think it's pretty difficult to maintain form and motivation when you've got nothing on the horizon. Yeah, I think, But if we were to start tomorrow, there'd be guys trying to merge on the freeway with milk, that's for sure. Well, because I see him for a very day talking about he just thinks that in our trainers, that's the way to to born out that he's only down a narrow day, which is probably a low able to make for a course. I wouldn't be surprised if he is. I think that's not an inaccurate statement depending on where you are in the season. I think you can you can a guy like Matt Heyman was on the trainer right right up to almost at that point I wish he won Rubé. But when you're, I think motivation in the mind are super important and hard to underestimate in training. And if you're slogging yourself on a trainer at this point this season with no real goal in mind, I think Falveri is right in saying that it's difficult to maintain that and be ready for when the real motivation is needed. you think mentally more than physically? Yeah, certainly. Certainly, I think mentally more than physically.

5.Think that's, I think the world tour is all about mental strength,…

I think that's, I think the world tour is all about mental strength, such a mental game. The margin between the best rider in the world tour and the worst rider, as I was kind of describing earlier, everyone's good. And so the margin's so slim that abilities are actually quite similar. It's like almost everyone can do six watts per kilo for the same, obscene period of time in the world tour. more just the guys that are more motivated, the guys that are willing to really hunker down, get on the regime and be fit and lean coming into a race that can separate themselves. So if you have that ability, that mental bed with to really abstain from eating too many chocolates and focus on getting the right training in when it matters, you always have an advantage over your competition. How's your discipline around, do I? At the moment, terrible. I've been let loose. My doctors have told me I'm OK to gain a couple pounds just because they want to make sure that I don't compromise the health, the healing rate of my bone, of my femur. And do you count calories? No, I don't. I do count KJ's when I'm training as a metric for energy output but I don't count the calories I'm putting in. I just go more off sensation. But yeah, I think at this period in time it's going back to that kind of bandwidth for discipline. I'm saving it up for the end of the season if there is one. My God's is a compelling deal to listen to. Welcome to your intermission. This is the moment where we take that little collective exhalation, we go, we gather ourselves, we stick on the pedal, we fill our bottles, if we're out on a ride and we get ready for part two of the podcast. But it's also the place where I would want you that right now is the time to pull out your phone, head over to patreon.com forward slash Anthony Underskall watch, I'm buying me a beer and I'm buying me a coffee, it's what keeps this show on the road. Thanks for listening guys, and let's get back to being mesmerized and hypnotized by stories from pro palletone. Take it away Mike. Let's rewind 2018, I'm on the couch drinking a beer and I'm screaming at the couch, at the TV and you have birthday on your whale, Faveredy on your whale, Moscon is just taking the Soyanite tablets and you're just cruising on in Zbroke. Well, I don't know if I take cruising on, but that was pretty much a career to following in moment would you say? Yes, certainly. I think the couple weeks earlier, I want to stage at the Boelton that fueled some extra confidence going into the world championships. I felt like I was ready to to win at the highest level. I was lean, I was fit, and finally my skills and my understanding of the sport were lining with my aerobic capacity. So, yeah, prior to the race, I did a recon of the course and the first time I'm going up that the defining climb, the whole climb, I turned to my teammates and said, this is where I'm gonna go, and this is how long I go for. And how long was it for like four minutes or something like that? Eight minutes in total, but there's a four minute section where it was just incredibly steep. And that's where I identified where I was going to attack. And I knew that if I wrote a certain pace for four minutes, it'd be difficult for, especially if I attacked for a lot of guys to follow. And yeah, it was one of those days where your son a special day and you're able to execute on a plan and I did and went up that climb and did exactly as I planned on doing this. Are you pacing that up a parameter? Or are you just like full gas, all-school, Pantanis, all the work in it? Yeah, definitely not looking at the numbers, just going by off sensation. I'm such a, I come from a running background and I produce the majority of my power and my best numbers. I'm not, I'm actually a mediocre a seated climber. You know, I'd hardly make the world tour if I was just doing seated climbing, but once it gets steep enough in the drafts less relevant, my running background really comes to the fore and I feel like I'm one of the best standing climbers in the world. That's interesting. Yeah, so when we hit that steep pitch, I knew, when I saw that steep pitch I knew I really had a shot at doing well. Coming into the line it's you birthday and Valverde like Finch me there coming in throughout What are you thinking you know cuz I was thinking looking at it. I remember going fuck Mike is fast Like I know Valverde's fast was like Mike is punching in the finish here. This you could win the world This is pretty crazy Yeah, I honestly when I crossed the line There's funny arranged my swine year right away John Adams is a Canadian guy But also he works with National Team, but he also was one of our swine years on EF. And we were at two opposite ends of the emotional spectrum across the line and he was just like, oh my God, I can't believe you did this.

6.Is what he was so pumped

This is what he was so pumped. And I was devastated. I, yeah, in the first minutes after that race, I was really upset with myself. I felt like I was capable of winning that sprint. I felt like I was, that Valderity opened up super early and it played right into my hands and I went from thinking I was gonna win this thing to when the last 150 meters, I really just cramped up total electrolyte deficiency cramp. And if you even watched the race finish, I basically sit down. I couldn't keep my calf's turning over. I just total cramp. And so I saw winning the World Championships in the last 200 meters of the race. I saw it. I could feel it. And then it was gone. Yeah, I was devastated in the moment after, but after about 10, 15 minutes of collecting my thoughts, I started realizing, wait a second, I still met the World Championships. This was still a huge achievement. So I'm the only Canadian besides Steve Bauer to have met all of the World Championships and he did that in 1984. I was still a big achievement. And yeah, although it was a bit of a missed opportunity, I'm really proud of it. But when you're a bit removed from it, living out in Jirona, is it sinking in, like just how big a result that is? I lived in Canada for a Canadian girlfriend for a long time and I was back and forth to Canada and spent a lot of time out there. You know, people turning up on the donut ride on a Sunday morning, like, how's it sunk in, how big it is for them and how motivating it is? It's nearly inspiring another generation of Canadian cyclists. Well, I hope so. I hope that it can inspire more people to get on bikes. Cycling, as you know, is not a big sport in Canada at all. It's one of the reasons why I didn't get involved in the sport. I bet you if it was as big as it is in Europe, particular Spain, Italy, France, I would have probably been on a bike much earlier in my life, but it's just not that big of a sport. And I think that's what made me so proud of that moment, was that when I was a kid, uh... when what motivated me to want to do the Olympics was watching the Olympics in ninety six and seeing don and barely in the four by one hundred year Canadian team uh... uh... best the americans in take home gold and just feeling like i was a part of that victory in feeling that pride as a as a Canadian uh... was uh... so motivating it did not inspired me to want to get into sports wanted to want to do uh... the Olympics and yeah when i was watching the flight go up at the world championships i was really hoping that There's another kid, there's a kid back home in Canada thinking now it's not possible. I can achieve success in the world level. Maybe he's motivated enough to kind of bike and maybe take on the World Tour in a couple of years. Yeah, it's pretty cool to think that there's a kid back there trying to drop his mates, going up a local hill now, thinking he's Mike Woods and just picturing you with that kind of a very rare day. That's pretty cool to think. Yeah, that influences how I race. That's how I want to race. I want to be active. I've lost races because of this style, but it's a style I'm proud of that I try and attack. I want to be aggressive because I just want people to see Canadian up there. I want people to think, OK, if Woods is doing it, then maybe one day I can do it. You're a long way from Ottawa now. You're living in Gerona. Why did you choose Gerona? Yeah, so Gerona's my winter training base just because I'm now an indoor and resident. but in the summer I'm up in Indora at altitude. Talk still, sure. Yeah, yeah, certainly for the tax benefits, but also just because it's, we've got a place of 2,000 meters and I really benefit from the altitude camps too. So it's good riding up there for again, and good for getting some good climbs. But yeah, I know, Drona and Indora, I have to be here, I have to be based in Europe, just because the calendar revolves around, is based in Europe and being back home in Ottawa, it's just not feasible training. I'd say about six, seven months of the year, it's not really capable of putting in good hours. It's often wet in the shoulder seasons and then possibly cold in the winter. I think it's access to China partners as well. Actually, the one surprising thing is where I live, Ottawa has become quite a bit of a we've got Alex Cadaford, who's a pro cyclist, Ryan Furze, real cyclist, and Academy who's based out of Ottawa, and Matteo Delson, who is former national champion and rides for the Pro Continental Team. Oh, he's actually teammates with him, but... Rali, Jeff Hill. Oh, yeah, yeah, awesome. Yeah, so you know Matteo, then a big boy, great guy, and yeah, pro cyclist. So I have a couple guys that I can smash with when I'm back in Canada.

7.That's cool. when I'm back in Canada

Oh, that's cool. when I'm back in Canada. Oh, that's cool. Is Jerona getting nearly two? I've been going over to Jerona I think since 2012. I've probably been getting over two, three times a year. Just go ride the bike and chill out and drink some nice coffees. But I often find now that I'm booking my Jerona time for off season. I'm going in like October, November, December, January. Summertime, it just feels like the influx of cyclotores is nearly getting a bit claustrophobic. What's that like for you? Yeah, it is pretty incredible. The influx in cyclists and you're right. My favorite time of the year is probably October here where the weather is just perfect and it's a lot more quiet, less tourists in general, not just cyclists, but just tourists and yeah, all types of tourists. But yeah, in the summer or two, I'm not in the drone. It is often and I'm more up in Indora, but I do. Yeah, it certainly has increased. I think that's gonna change a bit now with this pandemic. I think it's gonna calm some tourism down a bit, unfortunately for the economy here, but there's a reason why it's just always popping off here. And although it is a bit suffocating, the riding is second to none. I mean, I've lived in Italy, I've trained in a lot of places in the world, and it's really hard to beat your own and you've got just the great climbing, great adventure riding, but also really good flat riding, which doesn't exist in many other places. You don't have that variety. And the fact that you can go in every direction, it's not just, there's not one exit of the town. There's like, I don't know, 15. You can go literally north, south, east, west, and you're gonna find good riding. And I often just find myself doing almost a clock. The clockwise rotation of the direction of my rides each day. I start each week. And I've been here now for five years. And I laid down a big block here over the course of the winter and was still finding new roads that were just amazing. And then finally, yeah, finally the traffic. The traffic second to none. Coming from Canada, where you're getting buzzed and honked at all the time. Or even in Italy, Italy has incredible riding, but the traffic is just so much more significant there and so much more stressful. you come to the drone and just sits that bad laid back how and vibe where people just sit behind you in the car and not even care. They'll just wait and then all of a sudden you'll go okay or two and you realize there's a car behind you and you just can wave and they give you a wave and they drive by slowly without causing you stress. It's luxurious. Do you have a test clone of your drone that you like to do to know what it you're in for? Yes, yes I do. Rocket Corba, but it's not. That's not the only way I do it though in order to test my form, I call it my form finder. I do two, I tack it on at the end of a six to seven hour ride where I'll do two big climbs prior to it and then go full gas on it. So I'll ride out to O-Lot which is based for amazing climbing, really good climbs and I'll do two big climbs out there that were roughly 30 minutes. kind of medium, medium effort and then one at like skies on the front, pinging it for the, on the second last climb where everyone's, you just Friday and six watts per kilo and everyone's just kind of on the, on the rivet and it whittles it down to 25 guys, then it ride down to Rock Corbin, full gas. That's my big test. And what's the sort of times of Brooker-Kobah? Oh, I almost got Noxie's time on it last year. James Nox has the record on at at 2717, I think it was like 2730. And his Noxie is the fastest time on it, because you know he always hear like Wiggins rocked up and Donut put he didn't use Strav or whatever. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if the unofficial time is faster, but I actually do think Noxie does have it. I've heard that it was the high 27s, low 28s, prior to Noxie. And the Noxie really knocked it out of the park with the 2717. I actually was, when I got close to him, I literally came by him with like three K to go on the climb. He was just puttering up at, I got to the top and I was like, how fast did you go on it? And he was like, I think I did 2730 or something. I saw like 27 or something on my clock. And I was like, oh, I got you buddy. And I went and wrote down that climb, wrote home thinking I just got the calm and then love to travel to only see that Knox still had it. It's a stink and climb I wrote last time. I was over a Christmas and there's a dude there now and he has a table that with drinks and refreshments halfway up which is nice. Yeah, it's lovely. That's necessary on those hot days for sure.

8.Tell me, tell me. Where's your passion at the moment

Oh, you tell me, tell me. Where's your passion at the moment? You know when you get started in cycling, everything's new and everything is just fresh and I was meant to chat with Christian Morrow tomorrow and I was listening to a clip where he was talking about when he got started in cycling, he had this amazing passion for a put towards the end of his career, his passion moved towards coffee. And he was so excited about the coffee festivals and learning everything there was to learn about coffee. Is your passion, are you still falling in cycling or have you got one eye on kind of what's after cycling? I definitely have one eye on what's going on after cycling just because I've ruined one athletic group before and I've always been terrified that this could end any day. That only seems more relevant now than ever. And yeah, I use Christian as a huge source of inspiration in that sense. The guy had one year left on his contract, but by that point had established such a strong business and such an influential business that he was able to leave and focus on something that gave him just as much inspiration. So certainly I have some irons in the fire and I've had to have a coaching business back home in Canada called Malton Marathon that focuses more on running. Nice. But yeah, it's gone quite well and it's certainly something I want to take part in in years to come. I'm also invested in the service course with Christian and it's a business that I really believe in and would like to be a part of New Year's to Come as well. Give that a bit of a shout out because I've been to drone, I don't know, 40 times or something stupid, but I just research and Christian and the concept of the service course. It's actually amazing that I've only really used it as a bike shop, but tell us kind of what the concept of it is. Yeah, well I guess it's Genesis started from Le Ferbrika, and it's amazing going to the service course, Le Ferbrika in drone it now. Well, just coming to drone it now because prior to Christian in part, the Fabrika, which is his coffee shop. There was no, there's, there wasn't a good place to get coffee in Drona. Now, now after the Fabrika, Drona has, I don't know, eight, nine, yeah, as a quality coffee shops. Yeah, it's just there's, there are dime a dozen, they're all quality. And that all started with Christian. I think it really is indicative of Christian's I for, I for business in his mind for business. And after creating Left For Breca, seeing the demand for having quality coffee in the area, but also the amount of cyclists just rolling in and enjoying coffee, he I think Christian saw a whole, and also saw an opportunity for also providing quality writing for those people enjoying his coffee. And so that's, I think that's how the service course came about creating this place where you can get all the amenities of being a pro cyclist, all the things that I get to enjoy. Christian enjoyed when he was on Orca Green Edge, now Mitchellton. And also, yeah, enjoying those great things about Gerona and then getting good coffee at the end too. So that's where service course was. It's not just a bike shop, it's a place where you can go and meet some really good guides, have some great infrastructure around your rides, and yeah, just have this complete bike touring experience. I'm looking off that I've had some amazing businessmen tourists, but one of the really great pieces of advice I got was start at the finish line, think about what success it looks like, and then success leaves clues, look at someone who's achieved what you want achieve and then figure out what they don't get there and work backwards. Is there anyone you're looking at and going, I like what he's done post so I can. Oh yeah, well I mean Christian, this is the perfect example of that. Even a guy like Simon Garens is now leading the service course on a business perspective. I have a lot of respect for guys that don't just hang it up. For me, the big part of life in general is pursuing something, it doesn't matter what it is. And I always have respect for guys who realize that their room for growth has expired within the realm of cycling and wanna keep on pushing themselves and challenging themselves in something new and taking a bit of a risk. So yeah, Christian's a great example of that. I've been chatting, looking off the last few weeks to chat to some really cool, cycling people and a common trend everyone is talking about the moment. It's what you, any effort call, alternate racing, but they're calling just gravel saying. You know, Tyler Hamilton's talking about it, Ian Boswell's talking about talking to Ted King yesterday and obviously he loves it. Do you see yourself going into that afterwards? Oh, yeah, certainly. I think it's one of the reasons why I'm proud to be on EF. Again, this kind of like JV is another guy that has kind of has his figure on the pulse and realizes Realizes where the sport's going and I'm just tickled pink to be on this literally to be on the pink team literally Yeah, yeah And to be kind of on the forefront of that I think this is a team that you know 15 20 down the road, we're going to be looking back at and seeing them as a real influencer, a team that really changed.

9.Move the needle and change the sport. And I do see more participation…

Move the needle and change the sport. And I do see more participation races being playing a bigger role in cycling in the near future and even in the distant future, particularly with millennials and this generation of of cyclists, people want to have more of an attachment to the racing that they're following. And that's where the gravel scene really comes into play. Obviously, your background is running. So just to draw a running analogy, Martin is just explodes. We have 20,000 people or something to do with Dublin City, Martin. I know it's bigger numbers around the world. But there's such a detachment from Martin to truck running. Are we looking up potentially having that same detachment between you guys in the world tour and then these participatory events like Dirty Kanza? Yeah, I mean that's an amazing, that's a really good point. Something that I've thought long and hard on and yeah, like, you're one of the few people who have kind of brought that up that I've talked to before I brought it up but it's like running back in the 80s was at such an interesting point in the sense that you had a marathon scene really burgeoning. Like burgeoning where it's on scene people starting to do Boston, starting to do New York, starting to do all these big marathons. But you also had a really strong track scene, characters like Seb Co and Carl Lewis and big names but uh... uh... the sport of atlex was never able to to uh... leverage it to to connect to the two and now you see uh... people doing marathon they can tell you they'll have thirty thousand people do this one marathon they can tell you the guy that wanted to get no clue they have no clue they can't they don't know what's going on the world at like championships they're certainly not watching the marathon that takes place in the world atlex championships And cycling is at that point in the 80s now where you've got these big stars you've got but you've also got this burgeoning scene and if cycling doesn't figure out a way to connect the two then it's doomed to go the path of athletics which is as much as I hate to say it because I love the sport it's dying it's if not dead and yeah I could see sea cycling really they don't capitalize on it also being one of those kind of relic sports that people tune into every couple of years just because something interesting is going on but not really following it throughout the year. But I just let Ted King about this as well and I think it's interesting where it's such a delicate tipping point at the moment because what is cool about gravel is it's almost punk, it's counter-cultural, it's you know show up in a bunch race, use aerobars if you want. He said the rule is like don't be a douche you know if yeah we all know aerobars are faster but like don't be a dick don't use them like and that's the rule that governs it but then you have all that's cool and counter-cultural there and it's kind of edgy but then we have sort of your teammates the EF boys who seem like dudes but they're going across to the gravel and there's no counter-cultural about world tour it's like always my saddle to ride a mountain behind the bottom brackets is you know everything's muchy-matchy and it's marrying those two worlds in a way that we can sort of the roys until I lift both them and it doesn't sterilize gravel I I think is the challenge. Yeah, I think it's a challenge for sure. But I think there's also some counter-cultural aspects to cycling too that will always be there. I think it is a hard man sport. You've got to be tough. You've got to be willing to eat shit. You've got to be willing to crash. It's not pretty in a lot of ways. I'm sitting here with a broken femur. And I think if cycling can figure out a way to leverage those stories, like pro cycling can leverage those stories and connect them to the idea that one thing that is most beautiful about the gravel races is this concept of facing adversity, challenging yourself, taking on your fears and really kind of pushing and recalibrating what your perceived limits are. They can show that pro cyclists, that's what they do every day. I think that would be the saving grace for the sport. I was chatting to Tyler Hamilton the other day, and then I was reading the Hunter S. Thompson after that. It's kind of, you probably know me as a sort of mythological status nearly as an American rider, but I found a quote, and it's like, it's not. Yeah, I want my favorite rider, actually, if not my favorite rider. You probably even know this quote, and I just thought this just sums up cycle, and it's like, myths and legends die hard in America. We love them for the extra dimension they provide. the illusion of near infinite possibility to erase the narrow confines of most men's reality. Weird heroes and mole-breaking champions exist as living proof to those who need us that the turn needed a rat race is not yet final. It just kind of sums up cycle and more so to gravel movement for me.

10.It's just such a cool quote

It's just such a cool quote. What buck is it all from? I think I'm actually not 100% sure. Now I'm not sure. I just screen capture it's so I couldn't tell you what book it's from but I just it's one of those ones it's like yeah you know what I'm gonna say that when I chat to Mike what's gonna do I don't understand. Mike before we wrap up sort of my goal with the podcast and coming back it's I'm just trying to figure out how I keep on cycling and make a career out of cycling so I don't have to go and enter into that a hundred times with all the rat race because cycling to me is the antithesis that I You strike me as a man who just loves riding this bike and is kind of on that same journey to just figure out how you can keep cycling a part of your life. Would that be fair? 100% 100% true. One of the parts of that that's for me I've come up with this credo for the podcast as well as and it's held while you cycling as a tool to achieve health, happiness and longevity. One of the things that's been very powerful for me is morning routines. I looked at us, I got a chance to travel around the world, speak with a maze and high performers in different sports and business. But I tried to pull common traits from all their experiences. One of the things I found was morning routine. So I tried to craft my own morning routine, or get open the morning, I have a cold shower, I do some photo boil modulation with this Lloyd Junus, walk the dog, have a coffee, journal, meditate. It takes me about a narrow total and that'll be kind of my morning routine. If you look at routines or is there any routine to use the moment? Yeah, I'm trying to get more into a routine at the moment, particularly just being in lockdown and finding that I'm aimless if I don't have one. But yeah, I'm a huge believer in mindfulness and meditation and all those things. One thing that's also kind of thrown a wrench into the spokes of my morning routine is having a new baby, having a new baby girl. She's really determining our routine every morning now and it's been tricky trying to figure out what that routine is but yeah, I mean once I figure out how to navigate that and Get an idea of what what what her routine is which seems to be no routine at the moment Hopefully I can get back on one and and share that with you But I don't have one at the very this very moment in time Mike it has been a pleasure shot with you I know we're going to have poyles of listeners scone mics a bit of a do what I like him I like him. I like all things. I like to call to his job. Where can they follow you? Well, I'm on Instagram rusty woods rusty underscore woods and definitely anything you have to lay to do if you go and you've gone racing or Check out our website There's tons of content on myself, but also some really interesting other guys that are kind of trying to pursue exactly what you're Your life goal is as I walk them, and Martin and Alex Haus, who are really stuck into the alternative scene and just exploring their limits and try and keep biking as a part of their rest of their life. Amazing, Mike. Thanks for chatting. Thanks for the time, man. Oh, I totally enjoyed that. I really did. It's almost calling to say it, but it is like a childhood fantasy getting to talk to these guys, getting to vicariously live that piece of action through them. It's absolutely amazing. What a story when Mike was talking about 150 meters to go and he thought he could win the World Championships. I genuinely had goosebumps during that chat. Unbelievable stuff. Guys, thanks for listening this week. As always, we obviously are a coaching company. If you feel like any guys with your coaching, pop me an email info at a1coaching.net head over to a1coaching.net and have a browse around the website. And don't forget Patreon. It's patreon.com forward slash Anthony on their skull, watch, buy me a point, buy me a coffee, that's what makes the podcast tick. And I'm gonna be back next week with another world tour guest, another phenomenal guest. It's top class, you're gonna love this one. I think it's the best episode yet. Chat you next week.