We have a real problem with group rides. They are chaotic, dangerous and doing damage to our reputation on the roads.
The group ride has been around for almost as long as we have had bikes. There was a better way.
I propose solutions to fix the problem before we lose the group ride forever.
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We have a serious serious problem with the group ride. This might be one of the most important podcasts I've ever recorded. Let's cue the intro music. The big question is this. How do we use cycling as a tool to improve our health, our happiness and our longevity? That is the question. And this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Anthony Welch and welcome to the Row Man Podcast. Before I jump into today's podcast, I need to tell you about what keeps the show rolling. It's your generosity. It's Patreon. It's www.patreon.com forward slash Anthony underscore watch. As always, I'm going to put a link down in the description below. The generosity of your fellow listeners is why is why you're listening to this podcast today. It's what gives me the time to sit down and research this podcast to edit it to record to do graphics to distribute it, there's a cost. And that cost at the moment, it's been picked up by your fellow listeners. I'd encourage you to give them a dig out, give me a dig out. And if you're enjoying this podcast, jump on over to patreon.com and it's the place you can go and buy a coffee and say, you know what, thanks for this information. It's valuable and I promise you today is valuable. It's one of the most valuable podcasts I've ever recorded. Welcome Roman, we're back for another full length featured episode of the Roman podcast. The Roman Boys, what can I say, it has been a challenge. You know when you start a new hobby or a new task, I'm not sure what's the recommendation, how many days it takes for you to get fully into the swing of things. I wouldn't say I'm quite in the swing of things with the Roman Boys podcast. I had my cadence gone with this weekly one and I feel the Roman Boys podcast now. It's definitely a lot of extra work, but it's worth it. I'm getting great feedback from you guys. And I love the way I can take one topic and give that bite size recommendation of what you can do. Now, today is Wednesday, which means this is our long form Roman Boits, sorry, I'm, I'm brainwashed that Roman Boits sort yourself out, well, gee. It's Wednesday, so we're long form podcast today. So our long form podcast, it's typically been guest interviews. Occasionally I have done the solo cast where I have ranted and gone deep on a subject which I think is valuable and important. And that's what I've chosen to do today. I'm going to get back to the interview format again next week and maybe do a couple of weeks of interviews. But today's topic, I want to talk about how we fix the group right. I don't want to just talk about the problems in the group right. I want to give tangible fixes. The group right is dying. The group right is broken. She's in her life. She's on life support lads. She's on life support. We need to bring her back to life. This is a podcast that needs to be listened to. This is a podcast that needs to be shared with your club mates. This is a podcast that needs to be pinned to the top of whatever Facebook closed group you have. It's something that needs to be sent to every single new person that comes on the group ride. Because the group ride is something so special, so beautiful and almost romantic and it's in danger of disappearing on us. That responsibility to keep it alive, that falls squarely on our shoulders. I want to talk about the problems that a group wrote, my recent experience in a group wrote and then I want to talk about the solution. I absolutely love group writing. I want to start off and say that like I love everything about it. I love the kind of you know, you know, the people just pumping up their tours last minute in the car park. I love the clicking in as the last ride are fumbles to get into the pedals as we all get going out the gate and it's that romance and that love for it that brings me back to the group ride. But then I'm a few miles down the road and I realise why I rarely ride in groups anymore. Why I normally just ride with a small group of friends because the group ride is not what it used to be. It's changed. It's different. Now the group ride, it's a sortge and it's dropping Reuters and then we regroup when we get caught in traffic or we regroup at a traffic lights and some Reuters and they decide to sprint around cars and our coach will gap that's only big enough for the front two guys to get through and with no regard or no, you know, not even a passing soy thought about the safety of the Reuters who's 10, 15 Reuters. Back the whole spot is going on with the whole so I was there on a group rise with my local club who I absolutely never rode with and honestly I needed earplugs all the way. Howl, howl, howl, howl left, howl right.
It was terrifying. I'm going to be completely honest. It was terrifying sitting four or five hours back from the front and hearing screams of howl. And then what I had to start the end of my head was I had to start judging how big the hole was by how loud the scream was. It was absolutely ridiculous. If I heard a mass of audible howl I looked up and expected to be going off the side of a cliff. I expected it to be a well that if I cycle it into it, I was gonna get dropped down 10, 15 feet. Tiny imperfections on the road that didn't need to be pointed out. It was honestly deafening and then we have like wheels overlap and we have fist falls and breaks been grabbed. Everything has just been done so, so badly. And when I sat at the back of group and I kind of surveyed the group, like that's a very loose, it's a loose categorization of what this was because a group has some element of collectivity. This was a grouping of individuals rather than a group. I was just thinking like does anyone in this group realize how bad this is for our reputation on the roads? Like the relationship between motorists and cyclists, it's a fractious one at the best of times and haven't this sort of scattered all over the road chaotic lawless group of lads so it reminded me of you know when hell's angels rolling into town and a movie and they're just scattered all over the place that's kind of what it reminded me of and then in the group why I will most lightly think heard about going out with that group again is It's so dangerous. Like, Cyclone is a dangerous and off-sport anyway. You know, we've obviously that danger of on the open road with cars, but we have obstacles on the road, stuff discarded on the road with unknowns of mechanical failures. It's a dangerous pursuit at the best of times. And this has just leveled up danger zone up to a million times. Also, this is just not fun. I remember Group Riden and I sound like me dire. I remember back in the day. What I do, I'm old enough to remember when group roiding was amazing and that's what I'm going to get on to talking about how we get back to that. Like it's not fun when it's like this, when you're constantly adrenaline is just flowing because of all the screams and the wheels are overlapping with the brakes and the danger element and then you're avoiding that abuse from the traffic because you're just looking disrespectful on the roads. This is not fun and all it is, what it's doing is it's killing this tradition that we have of group-roid because one generation on or even a few years on, this is the example people will learn and they'll say, you know, this is what a group-roid is. It's this crazy, not-fawned, adrenaline-sappen-nerve-killing two-hours, three-hours that we spend together. And I think a big part of it is nobody seems to know the rules anymore. Who's in charge? Like I could roll up to a group-roid and I just don't know who's in charge. It's these aren't group rights. They're like they're like cycling Darwinism. It's a survival of the fittest where the strong just prey on the weak and The problem is We're using the wrong metric to judge who should be in charge of these things and this is one of my big takeaway For anyone listening to this podcast today. It's assessed the group right and appoint a group leader in the group What we're doing at the moment is we're prioritising fitness over experience just because somebody is training a lot. It doesn't make them an experience to go to a rider just because you have a new 10,000 euro bike and a power meter and you're training super hard. That's not a replacement for 100,000 miles of experience in the legs. not the same thing. And what currently happens is somebody joins a group and true, you know, maybe they're going off and they're getting coached externally and they're coming out with the group and they naturally just get fitter and fitter and fitter until they get to the position in the group of, we'll call them, local fast latch. Everyone knows who I'm talking about there. It's the guy in the group, the people kind of look to and go, oh, he's sort of figured it out. When we get to that position of a charity, most of the time And what these guys now do is, one, the stampter is already on the group by absolutely ripping them apart halfway on people, dropping people on climbs. Or two, they just leave the group and they go on a ride with a small subset of friends. And they occasionally come back from the group, but all the stuff they have learned is gone because they take it to the small subset of friends. And for those guys, and if anyone knows someone like that, this is the part you can tag them in it and say you got to remember you might be the fast going in your local group.
There's always somebody faster than you. And I remember when I was riding out in Canada and I had a mechanic friend of mine that was I was riding for Estelis in Canada or I was based in Toronto but they were a US team and we were out on a road and we were going to meet someone else and my mechanic I was telling his buddy, you know, Anthony's a pro and yeah, he's an amazing writer. I'm just like, just shut up. Just stop talking. Like, I'll stop saying I'm an amazing writer. I'm not like, it's a pecking order and there's always someone faster. And your man, the other guy, like my mechanic was loud and brash and loud and brash, triple good American. And my other buddy, or my mechanic's friend, was not loud and brash. He was very humble and reserved and an Italian old country guy. He's like, oh, yeah, my friend's gonna join us for today's ride as well. And I was kind of like, oh, yeah, hopefully he can hang on. And I got to. And I was like, what's your buddy doing? Is he doing much cycling? And he's like, yeah, he rides full time. And then down the road, I see a white jersey coming. And I'm like, hm, white jersey gets closer, gets closer, gets closer. I'm like, oh, that looks like the world champions jersey. And it was Rui Costa, the current world race champion at the time. And it just goes to show you there's always somebody faster. There's always somebody better. So if you are that local fast dude, stop walking around with a swagger on, stop thinking even ego because you can draw people in your local club ride. There is somebody faster than you. Park that ego and realize that when you get faster, what you shouldn't have is the ego. What you should have is a sensor responsibility that you've learned this stuff. You've graduated to the next step on the wrong, Now your job isn't to stand on people's head when they're faced down in a puddle. Your job is to pick them up. Your job is to show them the rules. Your job is to indoctrinate them into this beautiful thing that we have, the group ride. Because folks, I was saying, I'm old enough to remember before the internet. I'm old enough to remember before GCN, before parameters, before all that nonsense. There was a better way to do this. The goal of a group ride, it was the apprenticeship. It was the learning along the way. The end of it was the graduation and the graduation was the point where you felt a member of this community a member of this new beautiful thing and You learned from the leader, but in the process we all became leaders You know if I was one month into it somebody came in a week They're forced week into it. I taught them the stuff I learned in my first month likewise I learned from somebody who was a year in this who learned from somebody who was five years in it And I learned that you have to protect the weak from the strong. That was a great philosopher. I think was Nietzsche said it, the function of society is to protect the weak from the strong. And that's very much what the function of the group right is. We're only as strong as our weakest link in it. You know, we need to protect the weak links. We offer them food when they're hungry. We offer them water when they're thirsty. We offer them shelter from the wind. And that's what it is. So these are so many of the problems that I'm seeing in the group right. I didn't want to be that guy who just comes here and waxes lyrical on the soapbox about the problems of the group ride. I wanted to talk about how we fix this group ride because that's what we need. We need solutions. We need leaders to step up. Some of the problems that I just kind of noticed when I was on this group ride, it's... But in no particular order I'm going to rattle through somebody's and just pin them somewhere and say to people, This is how we group ride. When you're riding on the front, you need to be putting a decent effort in on the front. If you're someone who isn't hard right power, you need to be at least zone 3 when you're on the front, or it's going to bunch up behind you and people are going to be freewheeling and when people are freewheeling, they start getting bored and that's when they start accelerating and then going past you. But when you're on the front, it's not the time to start doing intervals, folks. Intervills are brilliant and they're an essential part of everyone's training plan. The group ride at the weekend isn't the time for them. The group ride at the weekend when we prioritize endurance, one, yes, but we prioritize scales. We prioritize learning to eat in a group. We prioritize learning to corner our people around us, learning to stand without throwing our bike back. These are things that we prioritize on the group ride, not going and just lashing it out full gas, zone five efforts when we're on the front of the group and tearing it apart.
The second, cardinal offense, which should be punished, by death, tag someone and shame them if they're doing this. It's half-wailing. Do do do do do. Intermission time, I've missed the intermissions because I've been doing the short-form podcasts. It's great to get back on the long-form podcast and the intermission is the part of the podcast when we take our collective exhalation and just go, ah, ooh, sah, I've enjoyed this so far. make no mistake, you are getting valuable, valuable, tangible information in today's podcast. The reason I'm able to bring you all that, it is because of your coin donations over on patreon.com. It's patreon.com forward slash Anthony underscore Walsh, buy me a coffee, buy me a beer, and I will thank you when I see you. Let's get back. If you're on the front of the group, there's somebody riding on your shoulder. The most disrespectful thing you can do is to start half-wheeling that rider. Half-wheeling is when we start just nudging the pace up a little bit. Just slightly nudging the pace up. So my shoulder and his shoulder started off right beside each other and now I just nudging my shoulder in front of the head. So I'm up in speed maybe half a kilometer and what happens then is he responds, the other rider responds because he feels under threat, matches your as soon as I get back to party, you then accelerate in order half a kilometer. The effect that this is, the pace of the group goes up and up and up. Writers think this is a sign of strength to be half-wailing them, but I can tell you absolutely categorically, half-wailing someone is not a sign of strength, it's a sign of insecurity. It's a sign that you're trying to show people how strong you are because you don't have a confidence in yourself, you You don't have a confidence in that strength. You don't have a confidence that you can showcase that strength when it really matters. Races against the clock, road races, you know, criteriums, these type of venues and settings when we find out who is strong. We don't find out who is strong on the group, right? Do not half wheel. Half wheelers should be chastised. Climbing. We have a group, right? Every Saturday morning. And the reason I set up the group ride was because I think the group ride is broken. Anyone that lives in the Dublin area, you're welcome to join us for a group ride any Saturday morning. It's 9.30am from the Bay restaurant at Clontarf. We do about three hours and I try and put in practice a lot of the stuff we're talking about here. And on the second half of the group ride, it's quite ungilane and there's a lot of hills. So you'll split up on the hills. But what happens when you split up on the hills? It shouldn't be intimidating for somebody who's not a good climber to come and ride a hilly route with a group. They get dropped and then they go home on their own. Do they know the way home? Do they have food? Do they have money? Do they know how to fix a puncture? You can't leave your weakest out like that on their own. So you ride a hill. When the strongest get to the top, they double back, put on their couch if they need it at the top. They double back down, fall into line behind the weakest person and they ride up information. They do not have wield them and they do not go on front of the weakest person. We reform as a group. Then when the weakest slowest two get over the top of the hill, the group recommences in one perfect group again. Another one I see. I'm rattling true with this because this podcast is a rant and I know it's a rant and I'm unapologetic for the fact that it's a rant. Look up! Look up! I had a coach. Big shout out of anyone's Irish that Martin O'Loughlin is a great coach of mine for a long time and he used to say to me, head up accidents down and so many riders are looking at their shoes, their feet, I don't know, what are you looking down for? Look up, you can't see what's coming if you don't look up. Make sure your equipment is good. Nobody has a problem with stopping for somebody who has a puncture but if you have a puncture and then four minutes later you have another puncture and then ten minutes later you have another puncture that's when nerves get frayed and that's when you're letting down yourself and you're letting down the group. You have a responsibility for the group to the group to show up with your equipment in good working order. If somebody does puncture there's no point in 20 lads standing around on the side of the road all offering advice on how to fix the puncture. The person that punctures the group leader makes an approach. Do you have everything you need? Do you know what you're doing? Yes, yes, Perfect, we're gonna ride down the road two or three kilometers. We'll do a U-turn and we'll come back and get you brilliant Everybody stays warm the puncture gets fixed.
We all stay together the weak protecting the strong. We starting to say a team here Help less experienced writers in the group give them advice Talk to them about what to ease talk to about when to ease check in have you been drinking enough? Have you been eating enough do you have a coat with you? Like maybe you should think about bringing a coat. Did you check the weather forecast this morning? Do you know Showers or Jew later? Do you know it's a good idea to check the forecast in the morning? Give them tips that you found useful. Don't give them random shit that you've learned of, you know, reading boards.au or read us. Give them the stuff that's been passed down to you from the group leader. Stay off the brakes. Stay off the brakes. Group roads don't work if everyone is on the brakes. We're going through corners, someone locks up the brakes, it causes a chain reaction of panic and it's miserable. Start out the ride and be self-sufficient. If you're coming to the ride and you're expecting handouts from other riders, it's not a brilliant starting point. You know, riders will offer and they'll give you stuff if you're stuck. Maybe you had a bottle which you had bounced out of the cage. That's what the group rides all about. But don't come out with no bottles. Don't come out with no tubes. you'll get this stuff if you're badly stuck, but people's patience and rightly so won't stretch that far if you show up every week with no tubes, no food, no water, no money for the coffee shop. This is a big one. No intervals on group rides. I hear stories about guys coming out on the local group ride and they're like, oh I'm just doing a form and an interval and then they shoot off and they attack the group and then they do four minutes and then they sit up. Like what is that? If you want, if you've intervals to do and it has to be on group ride day Do the interval before the group ride do the interval after the group ride Intervals do not get completed during a group ride. It's a learning environment It's a skilled environment, neither of which are compatible with you smashing intervals out the park Have a system for calls. This is a huge one the Terrifying nature that group right I spoke about it was the amount of calls and the variation in calls like half of them I know what the hell they are stopping slowing never say those two words again Like we can see your stop like I've always I'm looking up unless I'm looking at my feet see previous point I know you're stopping I can see you're stopping don't shout stop them because it's just gonna annoy me and It's gonna annoy everyone else around you, and it's just gonna give people a headache give people useful, the filter you need is, is the information I'm about to give, I'm about to shout, is this useful to the entire group? If this information isn't useful, keep your mouth short. There's no point in telling me you're stopping, I can see you're stopping. Likewise, there's no point in shouting whole, because it's telling me nothing. Where's the hole? Is the hole left? Is it right? Is two meters deep? Is it a tiny crack on the road? Like don't tell me that. Instead of shouting whole, just flick your wrist off the side of the bars. So you're still holding onto the bar, you're lifting your left hand to indicate there's something obstruction on the left. You're not swerving around the, at the vital point, you're not taking your hands off the bars and trying to navigate. Like a lot of people on group roads, they're beginners and they're just getting started. And so they come up with two hands on the bars securely for the entire group broad. But then they get to the part of the group broad which is most dangerous, the highest loyalty hooded in crashing where they come to a big hole. They decide to take one hand off the bars to swerve around the hole one hand and point at the hole. Like talk about increasing your chances of crashing. Maintain your line, move slightly to the side of the hole, don't swerve and point the hole by just or make the router behind you aware of the hole by just lifting your hand to left to show the obstructions on the left or your hand to the right to show the obstructions on the right. That sends a signal back the line. The rider behind you will see that you have done this. He will see the hole, he will flick his hand tell the rider behind him and it sends a Soyland communication chain all the way back to people on the left side of the line. Because people on the right side of the line, they don't need to know about the hole over there because they can't do anything about it. Don't give them pointless information. Likewise, this car up, car down, car left, car back, car top, car right, car side was, no consistency in this call.
At times, yes, we need to know there's a car coming, we need to know there's a car coming down, we're on a narrow country road, it's not wide enough for the car to get through and the bikes to get through, we need a shout. The appropriate shout is, car down, car's come down your throat and up your arse. That's the easy way to remember that one. Down your throat, up your arse. So there's a car coming down, it's car down and that's useful information the entire group needs to know it. Car up, rarely need to know it. Like why do we need to know there's a car coming behind me? What can I do with this information? If I'm 10 riders up the line in a group and you shout car up, what do you want me to do with that information? I can't do anything. It just puts people unnecessarily on edge and it's increased likelihood of a crash. Likewise, the Roy Leader is the one who makes calls on single-out. This single-out idea that I hear all the time, single-out does a car common. Like, no, we're not single-out does a car common. The Roy Leader gets to use his experience. Again, the Roy Leader is not the fast guy who spent 10k on a bike and a new parameter, the Royalty leaders, the one with experience who caused the shots. He decides if you're going to single out. Oftentimes, like what's easier to pass? Most of us are motorists and cyclists. What's easier to pass? A compact group of 10 Royaltyers cycling 2x2, maybe they occupy 200 meters of space on the road or a big long stretched out line of 20 riders in single foil, spanning 400-500 metres. You need a lot more free road to pass something like that. So oftentimes, it's easier to pass, double breast in a car. The ride leader gets to judge that. And that's where experience comes to play. So, folks, I'm sorry if this podcast this week is coming across like insane, tyrannical rant, but It's something, the group ride, it's something that's so beautiful and it's so pure. I remember going to France and my first group ride over in France, signing for the French team, Apoge, Super U. I hadn't ridden with any of these guys before and I didn't speak the language and I just went out into the group ride and we had our own language. It was perfect. hands flicked off the bars to indicate holes. We sped up gradually as we left town pace on the climbs. It was just hard enough that it wasn't going to drop the sprinters under the sense it was no necessary risks. It flowed perfect. If somebody was getting up out of the saddle to stand they gave a little flicker hand to indicate to the person behind them that they were about to stand. I I didn't speak the language native to the area, French. I did speak fluently the language of the group, right? And that's how I was able to go to France, to Canada, to America, to Belgium, race in all these places, and fit perfectly into the group, right? I was fluent in it. That's the problem now. None of us understand or know how to speak. this language of the group and if Reuters don't follow the rules which is Massively prevalent at the moment. They need to be talked to they need to be reprimanded There needs to be a strong talk and if it's a repeat offender they need to be asked to not write with the group again Because if you do write the group if you do follow the rules You will become part of the group You will become part of the bunch part of the peloton and membership for this club. It means something It's an exclusive club. Not everyone knows how to do this. It's a beautiful skill. It's an art and Please please please Let's not let it die. We all have a role to play in this every single person who's listening to this podcast today You have a role to play in preserving the group right keeping it alive for the next generation so they don't think that what is out there now represents group drawing because it's not the way. Back before all this, before the internet, there was a better way and that's what we need to get back to. So my mission to you today, I suppose it's like Mission Impossible here if you choose to accept it. I don't know, was that even Mission Impossible music? I don't know. Now, please get this podcast into the hands of your club mates. Get this podcast into the hands of your committee. If there's a committee running your club, into the hands of new guy starting pin it on your group, give it to people. Say, look, if you're common to do the group ride, you need to listen to this. You need to understand what the group ride is about. You need to understand that it's something special, that it's something important, that it's not something you just show up into cock measuring, half wheeling, who's got the fancy as bike, we're using the wrong metrics to judge success.
Somebody has a 6-7-8 grand bike. They're not the people we need to necessarily prioritize and look up to. It's the people we experience, the people with that know how to corner, the people that are graceful because this is a scale, this is an art and it's in danger of dying. Folks, thank you very much for listening to that and I know it was an impassioned rant but it's It's because I care and it's because I love this sport and that's why I wanted to dedicate and sacrifice this week's interview to get this into your hands. Another resource which I think is very valuable. Spent my time over the weekend putting it together and to living document it and I'm going to keep adding to calling it roadman resources. What roadman resources is a comprehensive list, brand neutral. These are not sponsors at a podcast. someone message and go, oh, how do I get on to the roadman resources page? This was a company. And I just messaged them back and saying, make a better product. Like there's no endorsement here. You're not getting on to this because you pay. You get on to this because you make a good product. And that's what the roadman resources is. It's a comprehensive list of everything I've battle tested, used and loathed from the last five, six, seven years. Some of the stuff is timeless and stuff I've been using for a decade. And this was really in response to a bunch of messages I get on DMs on Instagram and Twitter about, you know, what horror should I use, what we should I use, etc. But I had a friend who went into, I'm not sure if I even told this story in the podcast yesterday, I had a friend who went into a boy shop and basically a triathlete guy walking behind the counter, had voiced them to use like gator skins. And anyone that's used Gator skins and I know I felt victim for this one at the start I gotta set a Gator skins because the guy in the shop said me oh get a set of Gator skins you turn amazing tires They're solid rubber. They don't work, you know You shouldn't sell Gator skins in Ireland It rains five days a week if you sell Gator skins in Ireland mix them with moisture what you have is The slippiest surface known to man. It's like a combination of butter and ice and oil It doesn't grip. You go through a corner on gator skins, you slide out and you mess yourself up. I know you slide out and mess yourself up because I have slid out and mess myself up. I've used brake pads. They don't work in the wet. They don't work in the sense. I've blown tires out on the sense. I've tested broken, battle tested every single thing that I've put on this list. And these are stuff I'm saying to you. You need to check these out because if you're, You know, looking for reviews on line or your hope to get a trusted source from your local boy shop. Honestly, it's not happening. So that's why I wanted to put together that. It's called roadmanresources.com. I think it's valuable. I don't know if anyone in the cycle industry has done it before. There used to be a guy, I used to go to, called Sheldon Brown. I must search, see his website still around. Sheldon was the man for all things, boyke maintenance. Avoid any bike maintenance questions I used to head over to Sheldon Like me and I try and embody my own castle. We've done almost all of our training together back in the day It like we used to spend like every night working on bikes But if we ever had a problem like the catchphrase would be like I've you checked out Sheldon And that's what I want real man resources to be it's like oh, yeah, I'm thinking again I'm thinking to start and Taking some supplements like oh have you checked out Roman resources and seeing what they recommend and I'm chatting to the coaches in A1, some amazing lads that I have coaches in A1, you know, and they're feeding back into me what's worked for them. So it's not just, you know, my 10 year, more than 10 years out of now. A1's nearly 10 years old, folks, unbelievable. 10 years endure long enough to get noticed, is the saying. But some of the other coaches, All the other cultures have at least a decade of experience and I'm feeding that back into Roman resources as well. I think it's a valuable resource. I've gone on and off about it folks. Thanks for listening to this week's long form podcast on the group, the problems with it and how we fix them. Share it around and I'm going to catch you all tomorrow.
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