Coachinginterview

WHY YOUR CYCLING TRAINING HAS STALLED | ROADMAN CYCLING PODCAST

43:39·16 June 2025

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Dr. Christian Schrot coaches riders at Team Jayco. He came on the Roadman Cycling podcast and said something that most amateur cyclists don't want to hear: the reason you've stopped improving isn't that you're not working hard enough. It's that you're training in the wrong zones, and you probably don't even know what your zones actually are.

Key Takeaways

The zone problem is more fundamental than most people realise. Shrout's point is that FTP-derived zones have a built-in error because they don't tell you anything about how your individual metabolism actually works. Two riders can have identical FTP numbers and completely different fat oxidation profiles. Anthony found this out when John Wakefield tested him in the lab and dropped his zone 2 from 230 watts to 170 watts. The lab test, using spirometry and metabolic measurement, showed he'd been training in what Shrout calls the mixed metabolism zone, below threshold but above fat max, for long enough that he'd stopped adapting entirely. Fast initial gains, then a wall.

The fix Shrout keeps coming back to is zone discipline, not more intensity. Most time-crunched amateurs pull harder on the intensity lever because they can't add hours or sessions. Shrout says that makes the problem worse. The 80/20 split isn't meant to be applied to a single week or a sprint block, it's a seasonal distribution, and 15 to 28 percent still counts. What matters more is that when you do go easy, you actually go easy, and when you go hard, you stay in the zone you're targeting. On perceived effort, Shrout says a 7 or 8 out of 10 is already triggering the adaptations you want from a VO2max session. There's no need to push to 10 and accumulate fatigue you can't absorb.

Dr. Christian Schrot, performance coach at Team Jayco, states that lab-based metabolic testing with spirometry provides significantly more accurate zone calibration than FTP-derived protocols, because fat oxidation profiles vary substantially between individuals and are not captured by external power data alone. Shrout identifies a common pattern in amateur cyclists he calls the mixed metabolism zone, where riders train consistently below lactate threshold but above fat max, producing rapid early adaptation followed by long-term stagnation. He references the 80/20 polarised training model, originally associated with researcher Stephen Seiler, noting that the 20 percent high-intensity component allows for 15 to 28 percent flexibility and should be understood as a seasonal distribution rather than a weekly prescription. Shrout recommends incorporating VO2max work, including formats such as 4x4 minute intervals and 40/20 second intermittent efforts, continuously throughout a training block rather than reserving it for later phases. He uses a 1 to 10 perceived effort scale as a primary decision-making tool, noting that a rating of 7 to 8 already releases the adaptations targeted by high-intensity sessions, making efforts beyond that point primarily additive fatigue rather than additional stimulus.

If you want to hear how this played out with an actual World Tour coach, the Astana Zone 2 episode is the one to listen to next. And if your FTP has plateaued and you're not sure why, the seven fixable VO2max reasons episode gives you a checklist to work through.

KEY QUOTES

“very often the time frame is very limited that means you want to get the best out of your your training and it feels just awkward going super easy when you have limited time. So most of them have the tendency to train in my perspective too hard uh uh in in most of their trainings uh or in other way around don't have enough uh endurance based training um and give their body also time to recover”
Dr. Christian Schrot — Performance Coach at Team Jayco

“if you really try to measure those things for example first of all in a lab situation then you can get much more accurate data uh on where might be this fat max what you you have talked of and which is also now in these days pretty much discussed the zone 2 training um but there is quite some difference uh so from rider to rider if you you really measure it in a lab you might see um that especially the fat metabolism um is pretty individual and uh not always relating uh to the standard models that might be applied with an FTP and derived zone”
Dr. Christian Schrot — Performance Coach at Team Jayco

“I'd effectively got good at hack the system. I got good at doing 20-minute tests just because I jump on and race my friends and do tens a lot of time. But aerobically, I was shocking. I was falling apart. So, I'd fall apart after like two hours on rides. And he just looked at it and he was able to deconstruct and say, You have a huge hole right here.”
Anthony Walsh — Roadman Cycling podcast host

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT9 SECTIONS

Why Amateurs Can't Train Like Pros

Every amateur cyclist makes the exact same mistake. We look at what the professionals are doing, the intervals, the training camps, the altitude training, the brutal efforts, and we think that's the secret. But here's the twist. The secret isn't the suffering, it's the restraint. In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Christian Schrot, performance coach at Team Jacua, and explore the truth behind one of endurance sports most counterintuitive principles. Riding easy makes you fast. We dug into the science and the misconceptions around 80/20 polarized training model. We talk about what amateurs can and can't copy from the pros and why zone discipline is non-negotiable and how even the best riders in the world still struggle one simple command, go slow. If you've ever secondgued whether you're training hard enough or wondered if you can really get faster by backing off the gas, this episode is your permission slip and your road map. Because the truth is, if you're doing it right, most of your training should feel almost embarrassingly easy. Christian, welcome to Road Map Podcast. Thanks, Anthony. Thanks for having me on your podcast. I'm pleased. Every amateur looks at what the pros are doing in this Instagram era, especially when I'm looking if they're at an altitude camp. I'm thinking to myself, how can I reverse engineer this? What elements in your view of a pro rider's training plan can amateurs actually copy and which parts of it are completely inappropriate or even dangerous to emulate? Yeah, I think for for hobby athletes or amateur athletes, it's very important uh to focus on their time scaling and on their individual goals which might be different from rider to rider. But uh overall the most yeah critical point for an amateur rider I would say is the time restrictions because mostly they are doing this beside their job or studies or um yeah depending their family situation uh also a big point or a big topic for a rider who is not fully professional and with that kind of restrictions I think uh it's pretty pretty crucial to monitor the load in a good way and to have a good idea of yeah what what is feasible also to afford in a certain time frame. I I I think we're I'm going to try and go through and give amateurs quite an actionable idea of how they can take the best from the world tour and build their own training plan in this conversation, but I wanted to anchor a few terms because I had a chat to chat with uh Paul Antoine from Vecta. He actually flew over from Paris to our Dublin studio and got to sit with him for a few hours and drink coffee. And I know you guys are using Vea internally. And one of the things that's been quite confusing for amateurs and quite confusing for me is we've been so indoctrinated into training peaks into using chronic training load, acute training load, training stress balance, TSS as our dominant metrics for building training plans. You've slightly moved away from them now. Can you break down kiloals and how you're using that to monitor load? because it goes over a lot of our heads because it's just it's a foreign metric we haven't seen before. Yeah, I think um in in general um this this kind of monitoring is evolving. So especially with the new possibilities of AI and uh big data computing I think it has has a big chance uh and it's also something to look deeper uh when we look in the in the metrics. I mean in in cycling we have the good opportunity to record a lot of data. So um with all the kind of devices like power meters, heart rate monitors but also uh like HRV bands and stuff like that we we can really uh look deep into into data. Um but when we take for example the power meter data what you said it's basically the mechanical energy that we are counting from from the power meter unit. uh and you can relate that also then to the really carbo or hydrate and fat metabolism uh being burned and uh during an endurance ride or intensity right or whatever. And for us it's very interesting how much energy is burned in a certain training zone because the accumulation of that energy is then also related with the adaptations that we are looking for. And so for us it's it's really important to get a good scaling on energy uh expenditure at a certain training zone uh which we are looking really deeply when we are training high performance athletes and that's why I think that's related to your question why we also uh yeah want to monitor that and uh yeah have have a really good insight uh on this topic.

Lab Testing vs Power-Based Zones

Yeah. So if we take me as a case study for this hypothetical, how do we go about baselining energy consumption based on zones? Um it's uh it's depending really uh the goal of the season uh that you have and and where you're in. But uh to baseline the energy consumption first of all I think the the most um yeah valuable idea is to go for a lab test first uh in order to have like a really measurement because whenever we derive data from pure training data uh it's always obvious that this is somehow calculated data and not directly measured. So um if you want to really start from from a bottom point, I would say the best way to do it is really uh to have a metabolic test uh with a spyometry uh to see really how much carbs and fats you burn at a certain um power. Uh and with that knowledge and the fingerprint of your metabolism, you can really dig deeper then into energy consumption, for example, during a race or the demands of a race and what that might be. also related with your body composition uh and with your metabolism uh composition especially and that's how actually uh it's been done in in a professional world. So really looking from the demands of going going away from the demands of the race. So for example, you might have an alpine uh bike marathon or whatever uh and then you know okay I have to do this kind uh of altitude meters in climbing the gradients of the clims and the overall duration of of the event and with that knowledge you can then um start on thinking with your performance uh I might burn on this uh climbs going on I don't know 4.5 watts per kilo. Uh I might burn that in that kind of amount of energy in in the different uh energy systems. So back in the day, when I say back in the day, up until this conversation, sorry, excuse me, Christian, I'll start that question again. So back in the day, and by back in the day, I mean like 60 minutes ago before we started chatting, my world concept was totally different here. So I would sometimes get into a lab at the start of the season. If I did get into a lab, it would be lactate testing, but more often than not, I wouldn't get into a lab. So I'd use a field test to approximize where my 4 millles lactate threshold might be. So I might go out and do, you know, a full 1 hour if I was motivated, a 20-minut test, and approximate at 95%. Or even I know there's other protocols have emerged with like three by eight minute tests and things like that. Is there a way to approximate the fat max like the distribution of energy in each zone without getting into a lab? I mean you can you can do this also based on for sure uh any kind of assumptions from uh from power meter data. Uh there are different ways either you go in in the lactate direction what you said. So doing for example a field lactate test that could be something because with a available devices to measure lactate. This is also good to do it even alone on a climb for example just to do something like a simulated ramp test and try to calculate out of that LT1 and LT2. I think there might be even some some web pages online where you could uh derive that. And um yeah, if not um I mean what you mentioned is the classical FTP test um uh that has been proposed like uh some years ago already and derived that and based on that derive some some training zones. It's a pretty easy way but it also has a big error because you don't know um how much is that athlete really driven from the aerobic or from the anorobic side. And if you have an idea about that uh then you can also take conclusions where might be the threshold because in the end both systems are defining where the threshold is really located u and I'm personally working a lot with a with a metabolic approach which is based on V2 max measurements VMAX as the lactate building rate and or lactate production rate and the threshold uh which is then the outcome. come uh of that system. Um and with that um it really also explains pretty good um yeah how an athletees fingerprint is looking like like and where you might lead up in training uh in regards of which training um methodology or also which kind of trainings individual trainings might make sense for an athlete to move forward.

Individual Metabolism and Zone Errors

It's really interesting. So would I be right in simplifying this to say that the inherent problem with doing a 20 minute test or a lactate test and then approximating all our other zones off this is it doesn't allow for the individual characteristics of a rider. You could take someone from the ultra endurance cycling world like a Leel Wilcox who's just finished riding around the world. Maybe she doesn't test super well on a 20-minute test but she spent hundreds of hours riding zone one and zone two. So she's super well adapted to what we'd expect to see like using fat as a fuel source and other various adaptations in that zone one band. Yes, exactly. And and that's exactly the reason why I said it's if you do it on based on yeah one metrics and it's not a an internal matrix in in your body but more an external value like a pure power data. Uh you can relate it to but there is some some kind of error in it. Um and uh if you really try to measure those things for example first of all in a lab situation then you can get much more accurate data uh on where might be this fat max what you you have talked of and which is also now in these days pretty much discussed the zone 2 training um but there is quite some difference uh so from rider to rider if you you really measure it in a lab you might see um that especially the fat metabolism um is pretty individual and uh not always relating uh to the standard models that might be applied with an FTP and derived zone. So uh there is some error in it and so that's why I I personally prefer that methodology like really having a clear setup testing for um the anorobic system and the aerobic. You can also do that with with peak power data, but then you have to be a bit more advanced and try to calculate um then uh out of that data the different metabolism systems and um yeah get also some some insight which is still uh based on power data and not internal values. But like I was shocked when I got into the lab last year with John Wakefield from Red Bull. I think a couple of weeks before that now I'm I'm kind of fat. I'm like 79 80 kg. So the I think the week or two weeks before that I'd ridden like 401 for 20 minutes. And when I got in and done the testing with John using the my normal approximations I think I was working off like zone 2 starting at 230 watts using the old Andrew Kogan message. But when I got in and John spat out my zones at the end like he wanted me doing rides at like 170 watts cuz I was super cuz I'm a time crunched athlete. I'd effectively got good at hack the system. I got good at doing 20-minute tests just because I jump on and race my friends and do tens a lot of time. But aerobically, I was shocking. I was falling apart. So, I'd fall apart after like two hours on rides. And he just looked at it and he was able to deconstruct and say, "You have a huge hole right here." And it's zone one, zone two efficiency levels. Not sorry, not efficiency levels, my ability to carry out work in zone one and zone two. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's that can be exactly related to that because of for example when we talk go back to the starting point with talking about amateur athletes or also recreational athletes very often the time frame is very limited that means you want to get the best out of your your training and it feels just awkward going super easy when you have limited time. So most of them have the tendency to train in my perspective too hard uh uh in in most of their trainings uh or in other way around don't have enough uh endurance based training um and give their body also time to recover and also have a benefit from the training by getting adaptations in and those are really crucial topics in my point of view. Um and it's also related then to the outcome because what we see then when we see lab data is also that mostly this is related with a much more activated glycolosis. So uh much higher anorobic um um yeah system uh which is also then depressing for for sure the the threshold and also um yeah um might also lead to what you have said uh um yeah pretty under underperforming uh Arabic system uh and also in sense of fat max for example so I think that's maybe shift one that I've taken here is amateurs we're setting up our training zones wrong and we're not maximizing the adaptations because we're not we don't strictly know what our zones are.

Polarized Training for Amateurs

We're approximating our zones. If we were to move on past that and kind of layer and build as we go. If you take an amateur who is like almost all of them time restricted in some sense, we'll take someone that's riding 10 10 to 12 hours a week. How do you think about intensity and distributing intensity across that 10 to 12 hours? Are you an advocate of like the Steven Sailor message where it's like 80% easy, 20% hard? What does your head go to when you're thinking about that distribution? Yes, I think um a pretty robust approach um when we move back to to the older days where it was more more or less mainly endurance-based. this has shifted to in a direction what you have said somehow call polarized approach more in that direction and um I think this this approach is pretty robust also for a good variety of riders uh which we are talking about when we talk about amateur athletes as well and so I think that would be a pretty good starting point working off um having a good good amount of base work um but also being combined with some race specific intensity work uh especially focusing also when we talk about aerobic enhancements also with the V2 max training um and then in the leadup to the to the goal races um yeah sharpening more with threshold work and maybe if it's also yeah some kind of more punchy race or criterium or whatever then also with um that kind of uh sprint specific work Um that's that's for sure a good approach. I'm I'm completely on that and uh that is also an approach a polarized training that is uh also applied in high performance sports and uh among different sports but also in cycling very common uh to do it like that because it's a good way to build up uh the aerobic system. When we say 8020 just to clarify on the 20% are we talking about 20% of our total duration needs to be heard or 20% of our sessions need to be heard? Um that's a bit uh also uh I think there is uh this understanding you're right is is not always the same. Uh as far as I would say um it's not that it needs to be on that point of 20%. Uh normally it's seen on the overall duration. Uh so if you see all the trainings together then the 20% uh would be the time to to spend at the higher training zones but it can be also 15 28 and it will be still a good training or um five 5% up or down. I think that will not uh mainly change the the impact. It's more about having the consistency and also um yeah the quality of the training being able to stay in zones and not always trying to over push because also for example a V2 max training can be either more or less an allout training for some persons where it is still a control training um if you put it in the right uh borders of the training zone. So that's that's a bit the direction I would say. Yeah. So the 8020 it shouldn't be taken too literally from reading between the lines from what you're saying. Like if we're in a sprint block and we're training 10 hours a week to make the maths easy, it seems pretty crazy to think I'm going to do two hours of sprints inside a full week. So it it's quite dependent on what the primary stimulus is during that block, how strictly we adhere to it. Yes, that's what I said. So if you break it down to a narrow block then this is uh probably getting also super intense. So you have to see it more from an overall picture and when these kind of uh yeah overall metrics are derived uh for for kind of a c consensus on a training concept it's more seen on I would say on a seasonal basis or training uh period basis um and then it's also incorporating all all the training sessions. So, uh, but if you if you break it down, um, more to to one training peak, uh, training week, sorry. Uh, I I would say, um, it's, uh, I would always focus in one session on on a main target as as a really um, like a primary adaptation. Yes, exactly. Not to mix too much the different trainings in in one session because you think you might do good by adding more. Um the only time when this I think makes really sense if it's uh trainings that fit to each other and also when it's I for example a kind of simulation day where you might want to add up more fatigue to a rider in regards of having something like a race simulation for example uh then it might make sense for example to to start with threshold efforts and adding then a high intensity in the end uh because you want to simulate a race in a training but that's that's not the common training of a normal day.

Structuring Intensity Within Sessions

So normally you would either say okay this is uh a specific endurance training added by something that can be added for example short boosts of sprints um fatmax uh intervals in it or some tempo training can be related to it some blocks of intervals on that. uh this I think makes really sense. But when you go more specific on the higher training zones, I would tend especially for amateur athletes to have this a dedicated training and then also uh to shorten the training to really have the impact from that kind of uh stimulus that you want to have uh in sense of mixing in it mixing it up again with super long ride and then intervals in the beginning, middle and the end. So, I would more attend to the the first approach. Have you tried to watch pro bike racing this season? It's an absolute nightmare. The only thing that's maintained my sanity this season and allowed me to keep following pro cycling, it's Surf SharkVPN. With Surf Shark, I can set my location virtually anywhere. So, geoblocked content gone. Whether I'm trying to catch the highlights from Europe, watch the coverage in the US, or follow pro races around the world, Surf Shark makes sure I never miss a beat. But that's just the start. It also protects your personal data on public networks. So next time you're sitting in the airport lounge or a cafe trying to upload your Straa file from the day, you're not opening yourself up to hackers and snoopers. One of my favorite features, you can use it across unlimited devices with a single subscription. So I've got it running on my laptop, my phone, my tablet, and Sarah even uses my subscription, too. Plus, Surf Shark has a clean private search engine called Surf Shark Search. No ads, no trackers, just pure results, which is especially handy when I'm researching guests or training topics without being bombarded by pop-ups all the time. And here's the kicker. It's completely risk-free for 30 days with a money back guarantee. So, here's what to do right now. Go to surfshark.com/roadman. Or you can use the code roadman at checkout to get an extra 4 months of SurfsharkVPN. That's surfshark.com/roadman. And I've dropped the link and the code in the show notes down below. So if we continue with this kind of layered analogy of building up. So we've determined a new way of setting zones. We figured out the distribution of intensity across kind of a macro block. For me, the next logical step in building this out feels like what type of intensity do we introduce? Do we go with standard periodization, reverse periodization, or randomly allocated intensity based off our goal? Um, I think in in in general, um, there are always different ways to go around. I I think there's not one standard way. Um but having a a a classical approach to have some kind of buildup uh and this can be also already polarized. Um then um this makes yeah especially for an athlete who's lacking in in some on on the one hand in time uh that that's one limitation factor and on the on the other hand also needs to build his systems. I think it's good first to focus on um on the weak points which is mostly and there's the most benefit in uh to start off working on the aerobic capacities. Uh so with a zone 2 training with the uh endurance blocks but also for sure can be added already um either during in a process or blockwise then in in the process uh the V2 max work there are different approaches in that some coaches might tend to say okay I don't want to incorporate V2 max sessions in in a a traditional classical buildup uh some others say okay I I want to incorporate it my personal favor is to incorporate it continuously. So um and I do that also with high performance athletes that I really try to stimulate the V2 max regularly also in endurance training. So when you go to when you move on to monitoring kind of the the effectiveness of these prescriptions so you're giving out to you know one of the riders and team Ben Connor is going out and doing a long six seven hour ride. What metrics matter most during that ride? Heart rate, power, because a lot of amateurs are experienced on these longer rides is, you know, if 200 watts is my zone 2, I'll start out at 110 beats, but by the end of six hours, I'm closer to a zone three heart rate than I am zone two, I've had that aerobic decoupling. Yes, that that's absolutely true.

Power, Heart Rate, and Readiness

And I think um especially when we think on high performance athletes, a lot of preparation work in these days is done in altitude even and there you have even a more decoupling with a heart rate. Um especially when you when you don't want to cook an athlete in sense of that he can reproduce constantly high quality work which is mostly the goal having one sometimes even two sessions per day. uh then um I think it's it's a mixture of both still because the power that's clear it's uh reproductible you can it's always the same on the planet 100 watts is 100 watts but the reaction of the body should be still considered uh as an external factor to um yeah have have some guidance for your training and if the heart rate is then raising too much especially by being overheated or being in altitude or um yeah being just fatigued at the end of the ride. It might make sense really to also reduce the power and not to over uh too much. Uh I think personally a mixture uh of having a look on first power and then secondly to maybe adapt the power data in a training ride by heart rate. That would be my preferred approach. I know some coaches use like field tests like uh submac sub sub maximum aerobic field tests to assess the readiness of an athlete to do the session. If an athlete goes out the door and his heart rate is either super suppressed for his zone 2 ride because maybe he's at the end of a long altitude training camp or it's 10 to 15 beats higher than where it should be. How do you think about do you have a decision making metrics where you think maybe I'll adjust this session or maybe I'll can this session totally for the athlete? Yeah, first of all you have to be to be involved at that moment. Uh you are not always with the athlete. So the athlete has also to bring that that desire up. Um I personally I'm a I'm a big fan of the perception of an athlete because it's still I think the the highest quality feedback that you can get. So um talking with an athlete and then bringing his feeling into a kind of a matrix um by giving it for example a number or um a per perceived feeling or whatever. um however you might monitor that in in sense of what is this decision taker is if it's a number or a word or whatever but uh that that should be considered and that's actually um how I work with the athlete so I'm I'm always scaling from 1 to 10 uh mostly their feedback um how they what is their feeling um and um then also in individual talks you get a deeper look. It's not always possible maybe with an amateur athletes but but uh with a high professional athlete you can really talk individually very close and work on a daily basis. So uh then you have a good picture of um yeah what could be the cause of this uh uh heart rate shift. So, it's not always obvious and and super easy, but uh you get a better feeling and then you can also judge better on uh if it really makes sense to go harder to on that day or if it would make even sense to sh uh skip that training on that day or just go easier um because he might be already too fatigued or whatever. So, uh there is there is quite some room for interpretation especially with this heart rate data. That's always also the the big discussion point is it valid or not. I personally think still that it's a valid metrics because um it's exactly what your body is doing at that moment and whereas uh um yeah most of the other metrics are more external metrics. So they are super reliable but uh the external ones but the internal ones give give you some insight what's really going on and so it should be considered also uh for a training decision in in in my mind and um also athletes see that pretty similar when you talk to them and uh it's it's mostly very easy to find out then um with them together what could be the reason and what they feel in this moment and then you can also move forward with your decision- making process. And kind of extending from that, how do we know when it's time to sack off an interval session? And I think this is maybe more relevant for amateur athletes than it is for world tour athletes because often times you're carrying stress into a session, whether it's a long day at work, uh, compromised night sleep.

Knowing When to Quit a Session

So, you get out to do the session. You have 4x4 minutes V2 max prescribed. You're really motivated because you're super focused on your goals. Even though cycling is not the main thing, it's not what puts bread on the table. You're super motivated. Maybe you're a cat 2 cat one rider chasing an objective. You see quitting a session as almost a sign of weakness. But what are the guard rails where you think you're no longer getting value from this session? you're contributing fatigue without contributing adaptation. Yeah. Um I I think that's that's a good point because um the tendency of doing more because you're motivated is over always there in high performance sports and also in amateur sports. Um and that's mostly also one of the the the big mistake points um to really overdo in sessions and to build up a lot of fatigue with that because actually uh what we aim for in a high performance sport is really to cross with a certain um uh training for example a V2 max training to cross the borders of where adaptations are released and that's pretty pretty average or medium level of fatigue where you already get adaptations out and then there is maybe a zone where you could still improve by doing a bit more but then comes just a big zone of adding just more fatigue and not much more benefit in the adaptations and what I said before um even a multi- um uh training on a on a day like two trainings or even three trainings in in some sports are done per day and we see also that there is uh a lot of benefit in doing yet by adding up uh extra adaptations and um that's why I personally would say it's always better to not kill yourself in in the training completely uh and leave some room. This might be some kind of a perception uh thing. Uh also not every athlete feels it the same but um to really have the tendency not to go all out all out always not not every uh interval session is aiming for that actually and um I know there are these kind of um power meter related targets then when you drop this kind of percentage in the next interval then it's time to stop or or something like that but it's all already related quite high fatigue levels because when you start dropping you're pretty much done uh all you could do before already. Um sometimes this might be um the wish from a coach but for me personally it it's more or less u mostly in none of the the the sessions this is the major target. So um I I would also really encourage the amateur athletes to really say okay not trying to aim for the for the third fourth fifth series. So just focusing on good quality and when you have a perception for example when you rate it from one to 10 one is super easy and 10 is all out. uh when you when you cross some thresholds being at 7 8 already from a perception uh this is already a quite tough session and in most of the cases this is already uh releasing uh the the adaptations that we are really aiming for and there's no need to add up that extra fatigue especially when you're amateur athlete and you have not the sleep time sometimes you reduce even sleep because you want to extend the training in the evenings and stuff like that so Then uh I think this this is exactly um the point that and this kind of perception could could really help amateur athletes um yeah to be also then happy with that session still because you think okay I achieved that kind of u internal metrics that I have and uh it's maybe good to keep it like that um and not not aim for another session roadman whether you're a weekend warrior or a World Tour rider, the right tools can make all the difference. Enter 4's Precision 3 Plus power meter. The latest innovation from 4i. Designed to help you reach peak performance. The Precision 3 Plus power meter is a compact yet powerful unit. It weighs just 9 g and it's packed with features that set it apart, including integration with Apple's Fine Mind network, giving you the peace of mind by letting you track your power meter wherever it is. Plus, you've got up to 800 hours of battery life. We all know that accuracy is key, and 4 eyes delivers a groundbreaking plus or minus 1% accuracy thanks to their unique 3D strain gauge technology. For those seeking even more data, the Precision 3 Plus Pro meter offers dualsided power meter metrics, giving you detailed insights into pedaling efficiency, torque effectiveness, and left right balance.

Using RPE to Gauge Fatigue

For Eyes offers versatile product options to suit your needs. Choose from ride ready parameters with pre-installed units on Shimano cranks or up for factoryinstalled parameter where you send in your crank set for a custom installation. Ready to elevate your cycling game? Trust Fori's precision 3+ parameter. Precision, performance, and peace of mind allinone. Learn more by visiting fori Iii Iii Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.com. That's for i Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.com. I'm going to put that in the description down below. So would you almost benchmark an RP against a particular session type? So if I go out the door and for me two 20-minut threshold efforts are normally a seven out of 10 effort. If I'm 10 minutes into my threshold effort and all of a sudden RP has risen to nine, that's a sign that I'm accumulating fatigue. I I would say within that effort, I wouldn't see that. But piling up uh uh stocking up with more intervals then I would see it more from that side that you really because in in an interval you have have a target at the end of a V2 max for example on off intermittent interval like 40 20s or whatever you might aim for for sure the the second last and the last repetition will feel hard to somehow super hard or whatever and this is uh normal. So I think that that is also the goal. But adding up then more fatigues with more series at a certain point, you should really consider uh how you feel overall in that session. And if that makes sense to to add up then another one. Um if you want to go with a if you're more the the numbers based guy and you're really focused on the power number for sure also you can work with drop offs in power data. uh but as I said um this is then also very much depending what kind of efforts you are aiming for. If you're really aiming for uh short efforts uh then it's already quite some variation in the uh interval to interval data. If you aim for longer sessions, you can set the margins than uh then to a slower barrier, a smaller barrier. And um this can be also something, but I personally really would prefer um yeah setting not too high high benchmarks for that because um yeah, that will mostly lead just uh to to over fatigue in the end. What I've anecdotally observed from riders that I am coaching, amateur level, it's frequency. If we look at a zoom out, frequency seems to be what determines their long-term success or failure. The people who can train more often typically perform better. The one thing that typically undermines frequency and causes it to fall off is intensity. So whenever I see a rider with a 10 out of 10 training block, I feel like I'm looking at a rider who's about to have a two out of 10 training block. A 10 out of 10 is about to become a 2 out of 10, whereas an 8 out of 10 seems to be replicatable over a very long period of time. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Um yeah I mean uh then we are back to the to what we said before with a with a perception also of the riers but um yeah as I said so um this this might be also pretty individual um the second topic also related to that is also for for sure how often do you apply that during a week and um um yeah if you want to really improve and you're motivated for sure if you're not controlled by any coach or just self coach then the tendency of adding too much interval sessions can be another topic. Um yeah to to add just more fatigue and maybe um yeah don't get don't get the benefits then over the time but uh I think it's it should be a good balance especially as we are talking about athletes who are not having the recovery uh that a pro athlete is having in the end. But where does it break down? Because we've seen a lot of coaching companies in the last, you know, 10 years pushing this marketing message of if you're time crunched, you need to turn that intensity. So if we think about we have a frequency lever, we have a duration lever, and we have an intensity lever. So for amateur athletes, we can't really pull the frequency lever, we can't pull the duration lever. So people that are time crunched, like I'm talking working long hours in work, family, and they're saying, "Hey, I only have six hours a week where I can ride my bike, or I only have 5 hours a week where I can ride my bike." They seem to just yank more and more on the intensity level.

The Time-Crunched Athlete Trap

How do you think about building a training plan or distribution-wise for someone who is so so time crunched? Yes, I I mean uh it's always a bit depending also the basis the athlete brings brings along. So if it he has been already longer in sport and coming from different sports or even in his young years being being a competitive sport uh it's a bit of a different situation than if somebody starts as a beginner. Um all these kind of highintensity approaches for sure especially when you're a beginner have also a big impact on endurance. They have a big impact on maximum power. They have a big big impact basically on everything because uh you're starting with with that and uh they will level up your whole system but it brings also new gains. Yes, exactly. And uh it brings also when you just focus on that high intensity training. I think there are uh quite some downsides also because um in the end uh yeah uh this kind of overuse or accumulated fatigue problems that come up with it especially when it's not correctly monitored um can have also pretty negative impact. And in the end it's about having fun and doing the sport that you like to do. uh uh when you're amateur athlete even as a pro you should should aim for that and um when when you're then yeah just killing yourself with this kind of training methodtology I think um it's not what you personally are looking for so I think a good mix of endurance and high intensity work can be uh something to especially for people who are um yeah having not much time um and and have some restrictions there um to get out um yeah the the best thing for for them. The most common problem I see there is that a lot of athletes are pretty much training in the in the mixed zone. So uh they are not training zone two. They are not training low endurance. They are not really working on specific uh above threshold work but they are just pushing the pedals and that's mostly um yeah uh below threshold but above fat max. So it's it's a bit in that mixed metabolism zone. uh and that leads to fast adaptations and you can push then I don't know um uh a certain speed of your training group but uh there's a quick stagnation with that and then you're just not uh uh leveling up anymore and because you're not training your cardiovascular system in a way as if you would do it with a classical polarized approach with V2 max and and fat max endurance training and uh with that I think Um yeah, this this is really something what um amateur athletes should consider to to to pay a focus on not just ride your bike and and u yeah go hard in that that uh nowhere land I would say a bit u and yeah make it more specific and you will get a better outcome. Yeah, Christian thank you so much for your time today. I think it's been really helpful for amateur athletes to get some guard rails and some signposts to figuring out what the World Tour guys are doing and what we can be doing which is dangerous and helpful from that. Thank you very much for having me here and all the

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

why have i stopped improving at cycling despite training more+

Most amateur cyclists plateau because they train too hard on easy days, pushing into a mixed metabolic zone that is too stressful to recover from but not intense enough to drive meaningful adaptation. Dr. Christian Schrot of Team Jayco explains that the fix is stricter zone discipline, not more suffering. Roughly 80 percent of your training volume should feel almost embarrassingly easy, with genuine high-intensity work reserved for the remaining 20 percent.

what is polarized training and does it work for amateur cyclists+

Polarized training, often called the 80/20 model, splits training so that approximately 80 percent of sessions sit at low intensity and 20 percent at high intensity, with very little time spent in the moderate middle zones. Dr. Christian Schrot argues it works for amateurs precisely because most recreational riders already spend too much time in that moderate zone, accumulating fatigue without the aerobic stimulus needed to improve. Applying stricter zone discipline redistributes that effort in a way the body can actually adapt to.

is a metabolic lab test better than an FTP test for setting training zones+

Yes, according to Dr. Christian Schrot. A metabolic lab test using spirometry measures your actual fat and carbohydrate oxidation rates at different intensities, giving a precise picture of where your aerobic and anaerobic thresholds sit. A standard 20-minute FTP field test estimates threshold power but tells you nothing about your fuel utilisation, which means your training zones can be significantly miscalibrated from the start.

how do you measure training load without using TSS+

Dr. Christian Schrot recommends tracking kilojoules and energy expenditure by zone rather than relying on TSS as a single load metric. This approach lets you see how much work is actually being done at each intensity, making it easier to spot whether too much volume is drifting into the mixed metabolism zone. Monitoring perceived effort alongside kilojoule output gives a more complete picture of how the body is responding to the training programme.

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Key Takeaways

KEY QUOTES

“very often the time frame is very limited that means you want to get the best out of your your training and it feels just awkward going super easy when you have limited time. So most of them have the tendency to train in my perspective too hard uh uh in in most of their trainings uh or in other way around don't have enough uh endurance based training um and give their body also time to recover”
Dr. Christian Schrot — Performance Coach at Team Jayco

“if you really try to measure those things for example first of all in a lab situation then you can get much more accurate data uh on where might be this fat max what you you have talked of and which is also now in these days pretty much discussed the zone 2 training um but there is quite some difference uh so from rider to rider if you you really measure it in a lab you might see um that especially the fat metabolism um is pretty individual and uh not always relating uh to the standard models that might be applied with an FTP and derived zone”
Dr. Christian Schrot — Performance Coach at Team Jayco

“I'd effectively got good at hack the system. I got good at doing 20-minute tests just because I jump on and race my friends and do tens a lot of time. But aerobically, I was shocking. I was falling apart. So, I'd fall apart after like two hours on rides. And he just looked at it and he was able to deconstruct and say, You have a huge hole right here.”
Anthony Walsh — Roadman Cycling podcast host

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

why have i stopped improving at cycling despite training more+

what is polarized training and does it work for amateur cyclists+

is a metabolic lab test better than an FTP test for setting training zones+

how do you measure training load without using TSS+

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