HOW TEAM BORA BUILD ENDURANCE: JOHN WAKEFIELD ON ULTRA CYCLING TRAINING
with John Wakefield — World Tour cycling coach at Team Bora-Hansgrohe, formerly at UAE Team Emirates and Science to Sport, works with elite riders including Primož Roglič and Jai Hindley
John Wakefield is Head Coach at Team Red Bull–Bora–Hansgrohe and one of the most respected coaches in modern cycling. Before joining the WorldTour he built his reputation at Science to Sport, working with Cape Epic legend Matt Beers and Ashleigh Moolman-Pasio, and his current roster at Bora includes Primož Roglič and Jai Hindley. His approach combines rigorous fatigue monitoring with a deeply individualised view of how to balance volume, intensity and life load.
01John Wakefield (Team Bora-Hansgrohe head coach) prioritises sustainable power in a comfortable position over aggressive aero. If you can't hold the position past hour 4 of an ultra, you've handed back the gain.
02Late-stage ultra-cyclists run on Newton-meters of torque, not watts. As cadence drops, the workload shifts to muscular strength — explicit reason to include low-cadence/high-torque training.
03Wakefield's fatigue-testing protocol: a 3-minute effort at threshold to 110% of threshold every 7–10 days. Lets him adjust load before accumulated fatigue starts costing adaptations.
04Train high-intensity even for ultra events. You won't race in zone 5, but raising VO2/threshold lifts the whole physiological ceiling, making the in-race endurance pace less costly.
05Consistency beats peak weeks for ultra success. Limited hours done well across months produces better results than sporadic 30-hour heroic blocks. The same floor-vs-ceiling principle Seiler argues for.
John Wakefield coaches Primož Roglič and Jai Hindley at Team Bora-Hansgrohe. He spent 45 minutes breaking down exactly how he'd build a training plan for an amateur targeting Badlands or Unbound. The periodization structure, the fatigue testing protocol, the neuromuscular work — all of it.
Key Takeaways
Wakefield runs a submaximal fatigue test every 7 to 10 days with his athletes. Three minutes at threshold to 110% of threshold power, then a short questionnaire covering RPE, sleep, mood, and bodyweight. You do it in the first 10 minutes of whatever session is already planned and carry on. He says when athletes report honestly, it tells you almost immediately whether your training stimulus is right, whether you're stagnating, or whether you're digging a hole. That's every 7 to 10 days, not every 6 weeks at a lab.
On the neuromuscular side, Wakefield is blunt about why it matters for ultra events. Watch the cadence data from any long gravel race and you'll see it dropping hour by hour. By the back end of a 780 km event like Badlands, you're not turning over a high cadence anymore, you're grinding through torque. His fix is to train that specifically, both off the bike in the gym and on the bike with low-cadence strength efforts, from day one with a new athlete. And yes, he still includes sprint work even for ultra-distance riders. Raise the ceiling on VO2 max and peak power, and everything below that ceiling improves with it.
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If you want context on how pros actually structure their training year, the episode where I trained like a pro for 60 days covers what that looks like in practice. And if your aerobic numbers have stopped moving despite the work you're putting in, go listen to the seven fixable reasons your VO2 max is low.
CLAIMS FROM THIS EPISODE
Each tagged with the strength of evidence behind it.
EXPERT
John Wakefield is Head Coach at WorldTour team Red Bull-Bora-Hansgrohe and was previously a coach at Science to Sport working with Matt Beers and Ashleigh Moolman Pasio.
Source: Wakefield's stated coaching role on the Roadman Cycling podcast
EXPERT
Wakefield's standard fatigue-test protocol is a 3-minute effort prescribed at threshold to 110% of threshold power, performed every 7–10 days, used as an early-warning adaptation signal rather than waiting for performance to visibly decline.
Source: John Wakefield, Roadman Cycling podcast
EXPERT
Wakefield observes that as ultra- endurance fatigue accumulates, cadence drops and riders shift from power-driven (watts) to torque-driven (Newton-meters) effort — making low-cadence high-torque training a necessary part of the programme.
Source: John Wakefield, Roadman Cycling podcast
EXPERT
Even for ultra-endurance events at sub-threshold race intensity, Wakefield includes high-intensity training (e.g. 40/20 efforts) on the basis that raising VO2 and threshold lifts the metabolic ceiling that governs sustainable endurance pace.
Source: John Wakefield, Roadman Cycling podcast
EXPERT
Wakefield's framing for amateur ultra-endurance athletes: training consistency over multiple months matters more than total weekly volume — the same training-floor principle Stephen Seiler argues for generally.
“the minute fatigue kicks in which it does and you can't turn a higher Cadence or higher power you need to then revert which if you if you watch Cadence of these Ultra cyclist the Cadence always goes lower and lower and lower as fatigue sets in and the sessions go harder there will be a point where you're not running on watch you're running on newton meters of torque and when that fatigue kicks in you need to revert to torque to keep going”
“it's a three minute test at a specific power range that you would prescribe to that athlete so hypothetically it's anything from threshold to 110% of threshold as a power value and they would perform that three minute at that specific power uh as I said every sort of 7 to 10 days”
“just because you don't do it during the event it doesn't mean that you don't do it in training because essentially that stimulus you want increase your V2 you increase your V2 your threshold can improve your metabolic phase improves so you want to improve as an athlete essentially going forward from a physiological Point regardless of whether you're going to be doing 4020 type simulation in that endurance event”
Roan welcome back today's guest is the amazing Mr John Wakefield John is one of the very best cycling coaches in the world he came to my attention a few years ago for his work with science to sport where he was transforming athletes into some of the very best athletes in the world I'm talking hitters the likes him Matt beers Ashley M pasio I obviously wasn't the only one who noticed this because he's since moved on to World Tour team AA over there he is working with the likes of Primos rugit Jay Henley he's Hands-On with the very best riders in the game today I attempt to focus his considerable knowledge on solving a single question how do we optimize our training if our goal is to go for this could be a century ride this could be just a Long training ride a gravel event or even an ultra distance race you're going to absolutely love this conversation with John Wakefield to support this podcast please check out the sponsors in the description below and now it's John Wakefield John welcome to the RO man podcast yeah thank you thanks for having me um still still wondering why you've chosen me but thanks for having me your reputation predes you you're one of the most requested guests i' have to say yeah sure okay well definitely not from my ex but I'll take herent she actually sent me in a number of questions for this but thanks I appreciate that we're talking a little bit offer and some of the events like tracka Unbound Badlands these are the biggest events in the amateur cycl world at the moment and I'm not entirely sure that athletes that are participating in them the non-pro athletes I'm not entirely sure we train correctly for days our training hasn't evolved from when road racing was our priority for the season so that's what I want to figure out today I want you to sprinkle A Little Bit of Your World Tour magic onto the training plan of someone getting ready for one of these events to to start it out is there if someone came to you and they're like I want to do uh Badlands so it's 780 km split over three days not even split over three days 780 km go it's going to take you roughly three days to complete it and they're like I only have 6 hours a week training because of work family and social obligations is there a point where you're like well that's an undoable Feast that's too many kles you're going to get through over 780 kilm in gravel considering you only have six hours a week to prep like where does the where do the guard rails kick in on this um yeah it's a good question because as a coach or you know someone that's inquiring about that that definitely is a a variable of what you get um however it's not always a limiting factor training essentially is is quality over quantity but there is that point where you say to the the gentleman or the lady you know what I I don't advise this I don't think we can prep enough but essentially it's always up to them to go and give it a go um what I try identify if there is a very limited period of of of volume that they can do or or time depending on a a busy schedule is understand first off if they actually going to get to the training that I would prescribe them within those hours that they have available or whether it's going to be I can do like Tuesday but then I'm not really going to do something the next session because I'll miss it because I'm busy Etc so if you can utilize that full amount of time and you able to prescribe a stimulus to get what you want out of that athlete then yeah you you essentially go for it um but if you have those limiting factors then I would say you know I would never tell someone don't do it but I would give them reasoning why it may not be the best idea going forward but essentially it's always up to them to decide what they do you guys are working with some super Young Writers like I see Joe pockock is on your website Tom pick's younger brother as one of the athletes you guys are working with I raced him at Easter weekends in Ireland in Ross Moon he won the last stage he's mov moving super well when you look at an athlete like that you're probably looking at a 10 15 maybe even 20 year time Horizon for what his career is going to be how do you take that long-term planning for a athlet who is I suppose age group to use a triatlon term who's someone balancing conflicting demands on their time work family Etc and they're coming in to do an event like this which is a stretch Target are you looking at them and saying look if you do an event like this this it has potential to be one andone like you're going to have to go so deep the experience is going to be so miserable that it's unlikely we're going to have them the following year as well um it really depends on how narcissistic they are at the end of the day so I know it sounds rough but but you do have to have that sort of En enjoying the the the suffering where I you know we we've mentioned Badlands where I've had guys do it firsttime athletes and they've done it and they've just completed it nothing else there was no goal their goal was just to complete it took them a significant amount of time and they went through all all levels of hell but yet they've gone back the following year you know so it's you know where you know you sometimes get messages during it because you you have that availability and you're just like you know hey bud let's keep going you know like let's get to that next point at the end of it you have your debrief and then you know you keep them on as an athlete cuz they've enjoyed that journey and then they tell you the following I'm going back you know but then the goal is hypothetically if it took them 72 hours now they want to do 68 you know so that's a goal going forward in a progressional point where if you take someone like ol you know if he were second your next goal is for him to go first you know so it's it's really dependent on the athlete and the goals and what is a realistic goal you know a guy that finished a day and a half behind ol is not going to win the following year no matter what you look at it so it it really comes down to the athlete the person what the goal is what the objective outcome is and can we make that Improvement and Dylan Johnson on the podcast the American YouTuber gravel reuer and he had an interesting take on aerodynamics he thinks slower Rider should be more focused on aerodynamics which does make sense because you're going to be out there for longer so the potential gains you get are greater yes and no because when you go aerodynamic it's typically based on a position and if an if we call them an amateur cyclist compared to a pro that's going to win so if we take that age group amateur cyclist and and anything aerodynamic is based on whether you can hold that position for a period of time for that period of time so you know if you put them in this aggressive we say aggressive aerodynamic position and they can't hold the position position it's pointless you know so to me I don't disagree with him but I don't I for me it would be what you can sustain power in a comfort level as long as possible which will make you go faster so hypothetically if they do 220 Watts for the full duration in a nonaggressive arrow position that is better than them doing an nrow excuse me an nrow position that they can't hold and then everything goes kind of to hell because they now in a change their position because they don't have that durability to to hold that so for me yes it's important but I would go more on on what is sustainable power over a longer period of time and what makes it more durable versus aerodynamics yeah that makes sense so let's talk about how like tactically how we go about building out a training plan I Rob Britton was on the podcast and Rob was talking about his average power is so low like even winning Badlands I don't I think his was s of 190 Watts for the entire event which for most trained Riders that's zone two right yeah how do we go about thinking around volume and intensity distribution in a training plan for one of these guys um so I would still periodize the training plan per normal periodization of of what we want as an outcome in terms of volume is maybe jump in there even clarify that like what are we talking about normal periodization are you an advocate of reverse periodize plan standards three weeks each building on the next and then kind of a decompression week yeah so I would depend again depending on the athlete but it would say be a three three plus one so three weeks on one off or maybe 411 depending what that athlete can can handle from a load perspective um and then build up from you know like your if we go really traditional from like your base period your preep ation like medium intensity high intensity taper and go you know and you know sometimes I do play around where I mix sort of some blocks up um and some phases and micro Cycles up but essentially I would per block periodize it correctly going into the event and again whether an athlete can handle 3+ one or 4 plus one it it's completely based on them um but I wouldn't mainly reverse periodization one or two cases I have but that's you know it for for someone just entering the answer would be no um put it that way a strong Focus that I do have uh for these Ultra events is I I put a lot of focus on strength obviously off the bike um and then also your neuromuscular efforts and your metabolic effort on the bike um for me that's a really important part because the minute fatigue kicks in which it does and you can't turn a higher Cadence or higher power you need to then revert which if you if you watch Cadence of these Ultra cyclist the Cadence always goes lower and lower and lower as fatigue sets in and the sessions go harder there will be a point where you're not running on watch you're running on newton meters of torque and when that fatigue kicks in you need to revert to torque to keep going and obviously with torque your low your power is lower but your torque is higher and you're still producing power or strength to go forward on the bike and that's something I'm a strong advocate of and you start building that in immediately with someone as soon as they come in the door with you yeah 100% especially for an ultra sight based or an ultra athlete um and I do revisit that during our our whole training phase going in and that's off the bike gym work and on the bike all scho strengthes as Alan DAV called yeah yeah yeah correct 100% And when we think about a normal Joe freil style periodization system like this we're typically cycling from endurance work into adding a bit of tempo work in one phase coming into the next phase or adding a bit of threshold into V2 and Sprint but do we still need is there a role for Sprint type training in this because we're looking at some of these files I've seen people aren't really getting n of 800 watts all too often sure but uh so the answer is yes but just because you don't do it during the event it doesn't mean that you don't do it in training because essentially that stimulus you want increase your V2 you increase your V2 your threshold can improve your metabolic phase improves so you want to improve as an athlete essentially going forward from a physiological Point regardless of whether you're going to be doing 4020 type simulation in that endurance event above that to pull it up kind of correct so you still want to improve your Peak power because then everything under need improv okay very interesting and someone that's coming in I'm I'm trying to think as we're chatting about the differences between the clients you're working at in Bora who all day to ride their bike versus Average Joe coming in and one of the things that we touched on a couple of times is we can't just ride our bike all day you know I wake up this morning I want to go r my bike but we do a podcast and have another couple of emails to get back to I'll ride my bike I'll come back have more work to do and that's the reality for most of us so fatigue is a big issue because as was the outcome of a session we're trying to get is to get faster on the bike not to take take a box and just say we done a session so it's that recovery gives us that space to get the adaptation how do you think about feedback mechanisms um yeah so feedback comes in in many forms one being what you see in a daughter fall obviously from an athlete you can see if the session was was done well within the ranges Etc that you want for myself personally I still believe very much in that human Communication in terms of feedback where it's like a simple message is hey how do you feel and then from an external side um I use the submaximal fatigue test um which is every sort of 7 to 10 days and that tracks everything essentially tracks progression whether you are or or aren't progressing uh with with your specific athlete um and that to me is when you correlate kind of all of those together you get a full picture of where the athlete actually is hey Ro man excuse the short Interruption I love riding the bike but on account of being so busy with the podcast at the moment I'm now what's called a time crunch Rider I never thought it see today but I have a tool I'm using W bike to keep myself sharp and on point with specific sessions to maximize that available training time I have a what bike atam right here in the recording studio beside me and when I have an error in between interviews I jump on it's removing all the friction points from me there's no more 10 minute setup unfolding legs banging my knees off stuff getting my hands dirty usual connection issues it just works every single time the atom's perfect for virtual racing as well because it has crisp gear changes it has 1% accuracy and it has Max gradient cap capability of up to 25% if you're looking for an indoor trainer I honestly couldn't recommend this any higher I've been using a w bike since 2013 honestly it's the last indoor trainer that you're ever going to need if you head on over to what bike.com now and use code roadman 10 that's r o a d m n t n and that's going to get you 10% off your W bike what's the sub maximum fatigue test um yeah it's so it it what it started off as Lambert's submaximal fatigue test as a company we um sort of took that data and just sort of fine-tuned it a little bit so it's a three minute test at a specific power range that you would prescribe to that athlete so hypothetically it's anything from threshold to 110% of threshold as a power value and they would perform that three minute at that specific power uh as I said every sort of 7 to 10 days depending where they are maybe in a block of racing if it allows it or not then you would move it up um once the athlete has completed that there's a very short questionnaire which um involves RP value for the three minutes your time to exertion uh and then other external factors like sleep mood Wellness uh traal weight Etc we get that back um as correlated data and then we track that and that can track whether an athlete is progressing so is our stimulus correct between intensity as an example in recovery or are we going in the opposite direction where the athlete is fatigued and we need to change training or is the stimulus not correct and he's plateaued or stagnated um and that is you know when when done correctly reporting from the athlete it's almost Bulletproof the other benefit is is that if they are kind of lying on it and you you can pick up to be honest and uh make sure that it's uh and you say to them hey like these these factors and metrics aren't kind of correlating Let's uh let's make some changes can this be a field test or do you need them in the lab doing lactates Jing it as well like what's the protocol for it uh no it's outside so they they do it kind of any day so as an example if I give it to you and you have a two-hour recovery ride or even if you have intervals you would do that within the first sort of 10 minutes of your ride and then go and do the rest of your training for the day very interesting I hadn't heard of it before and yeah is there enough time so it's every seven to 10 days you prescribe a training block 10 days I do a sub maximum fatigue test 10 days later is there enough time for my body to absorb that training and make an adaptation that's noticeable in the data yes you typically get really good data straight away from that is this standard in world tour at the moment or is this something you guys are kind of pioneering um it's not standard I um I we had introduced it um obviously my myself and my business partner Jen SWAT we at UAE together and we had introduced it there um and we had introduced it as a company with our athletes with specific kind of category of athletes and we had obviously then brought it over for monitoring there and I've just carried it over to to borrow with with my specific group of athletes that I use now that or that I work with now it's a great idea because most of us intuitively know inside you know you're starting a 20 minute threshold effort inside two three minutes you have a really good idea how you feel you have a really good idea how the rest of that session is going to go yeah like you start I started a threshold effort after a long day and it's like you get on it and within two three minutes heart rate's not wor it's should RP is not worth should you're like I'm gonna suffer so bad for the next 20 minutes yeah correct um and what we ask is obviously as they do the three minutes they fill the the that sort of very short questionnaire out straight away so as soon as they do it I get that feedback straight away um and I would look at it and if things really aren't good I would make contact with that athlete straight away and say like look I've bought the session or like if it's fine I I just I don't report to them straight away and they carry on going feedback is an interesting one because feedback is are the athletes ability to communicate feedback too and some people with different personalities are good and bad at feedback bu have you played around with introducing personality tests uh yes not really a test in itself I try adapt myself to that athletes personality instead of them kind of always adapting to myself um like you need to find a happy medium but for me I you know if you get an athlete that's a little bit on the on the Spectrum side versus an athlete that kind of is normal um I kind of had two very different approaches when I deal with each athlete so that kind of like I sometimes feel I have a really good potential to have multiple split personalities um you know I could be a great serial killer I think um but yeah that's I know some teams and that are doing that and introducing that slowly now um I haven't personally ever done one with an athlete or got one to do it I just kind of do it on feeling and and try adapt accordingly yeah it's an interesting one because I know a lot of companies are started and the links between top performers there it doesn't necessarily have to be sport I've noticed a lot speaking on the podcast to people who are CEOs of big companies and the amount of common traits they have with valry butas who drives an F1 car with Greg lemon multiple tur of France Champion high performance is a tread that links all these people together and personality tests are definitely creeping into corporate world more and more yeah like you know someone says to me oh why do you you know coach this age group athlete and for me sometimes an age group athlete is the easiest athlete to coach especially if he runs a really highend company like if I co there's a a CFO that I coach how he approaches work is how he approaches his training you know and he's the easiest guy to coach I ask him to do something it's done the feedback is there it's it's bulletproof you know and you kind of think I wish that some of the professional athletes at at you know Pro Conti or amateur or you know World T level are as professional as what this guy does um you know so that when you speak to him is like well that's what my life is like that's what I just transfer straight over to my training you know so what you say is is 100% correct and is that you know let's maybe unpack that idea of professionalism like what makes him so professional and is that a trait that you can see repeated among top performers is it the same reason RIT is successful is it the same reason vas off is successful what is that trait that we call professionalism I would say how I like to look at it and then it's also quite a wide rout but it is the attention to detail you know it's it's it's it's a very structured attention to detail um you know someone says has asked me oh who's the most professional person you've ever worked with as an athlete and I didn't personally coach him but I worked with them Clos I landed up doing a lot of races with him and stuff at when I was at UAE and that was Alexander Kristof he was probably the most professional athlete I've I've ever seen um you know and yes don't get me wrong today winning the tour is super professional rage has been incredible since he's come to to Bora but they all carry that same trait where yes they fun and they laugh and they make good jokes and stuff like that but when it comes to their trade it is just super focused super professional their attention to detail is incredible um and I just feel that that is what makes them you know like you walk in their room and their bag is packed it's clean where you walk in some athletes Riders B rooms and it's like mate you've got a flush a toilet you know it's like you know so so when you look at it that side I do feel that that then follows over into the actual racing on the bike I remember having a football manager back when I was a kid I played football tried to make it as a pro got to kind a pro in Ireland which is not really Pro about the level I got in cycling I had a football manager who fined me for having dirty boots one day and I remember going home I must 14 years old and I going home and just baffled at this talking to my dad I'm like like the the boots are gonna get dirty I'm going on to a dirty pitch why does he care if my boots are dirty starting the session and my dad said to me because how you do anything is how you do everything like that's such a beautiful turn of phrase because it's so true yeah correct you know like even you know with our lab here in Tona you get people that come in with a a good clean bike that we work on and then you get guys that you know it's like going to the dentist with peanut brittle in your mouth you know you just don't don't do that um and I just feel that you know if that's how you do this it flows over and flows over into into every other part of your life or what you do um you know like going back to the ultra stuff there was the one Rider I work with super professional super successful really wins races podiums like fantastic and then he's like at the end of the year where I'm like you know man this was unbelievable he says I like what can we do to be like two 3% better and you sit there going like I thought we could maybe let go of two or three% and just have it a bit easier um you know so but yet you see how that is you know and it's it's everything from tire pressure to do I need to eat this at that time and it's just those small small things that have a really big impact at the end and I I and how modern cycling is especially at World T level now it's changed so much over the last four years and even now coming into the Ultras side and as you said the gravel which has also become a lot more professional you need to apply your trade 100% so you can get a 90% reward almost nowadays like nowadays that oh I've got the talent I can get by doesn't really cut it anymore the line is difficult isn't it for amateurs and I struggle with this myself as well because you the nature of cycling it sucks you in and it's why every time I go out to Jona for two weeks I'm like I'm going to go out and going to do a bit of balance of work and training and then I'm like 200k deep into a roid out near France or something with a load of full-timers I'm like what am I doing how have I got sock back in this deep yeah that's hard because it's a sport that you can always give more to I have a friend who's training for the moment for tracka for the 500 one or the 520 or whatever it is and he's trying to win that at the moment and I was chatting to him and he's like I think I've done everything I can I was like you can always do more in cycling like you're not in altitude and you haven't done camps it's like yeah at what point is that healthy balance for amateur athlete to say I'm being professional and I've done enough but I'm not running a you know train without a driver through my whole personal life and my professional life um yeah it's it's actually a very good topic that because I have found lately that that line is is so thin and linear where what I say to people is what are you being paid to do and they'll say oh I'm being paid to be an accountant and you're like okay but that's where your focus is you're not paid to be a professional you know so yes they are 100% into it and they you know dot the eyes and cross the teas but there's some of them that are doing more than what a full-time professional that's landing on actually landing on the podium at tracker is doing yeah and that is where it's like too much has a negative effect um you know those people I sometimes say do less you know like you you are more intense than my most intense will to athlete and that to me I think just becomes like it works negatively you know that that line between in performance now that line between success and failure is so thin where before it wasn't and I just feel that the more that athlete does that serious amateur athlete and goes deeper into it because they possibly have the finances the resources they fully invested they they are clever and they have a brain so they invested into it has a negative effect it's like maybe do less bring the fun back into it and you'll actually have a better reward does a strange counter utive phenomenon I've observed at the moment in friends and this is non-cycling friends but you could equally apply to some of the world hor guys their life is really good they're making a good income they' have a great social family set up sport balance everything and then they make a financial decision to make more cash which actually makes their life worse so they're already making enough cash to cover everything they want to do but they take that promotion and it actively makes their life worse they spend less time with their family less time on their Hobbies less time on everything and I've been trying to figure out what is that what motivates people to make this decision time and time again and the best I can unpack it is they're viewing the world purely through a financial lens that that's the only yes that's only metric for success is the number in my bank account going up and I think the same could be extended into Riders who just get a little bit too obsessive they start to view the world just through performance to the detriment of everything else and if you unpack this longtail you look at somebody like who I'm a huge fan of Bradley Wiggins I followed him all my career coming out the far end of that and observing it 15 years later was it 2013 he won the Tour 10 years later yeah can we call that success if he's wrestling with potentially some addictive properties or personalities if he's divorced if he's you know a little bit antisocial that system that made him the great Champion that he wins the Tour of France and then the Olympics six days later is also a system that's left him in a less than Optimum Place post career is that success R man I know how serious you take your goal setting whether they're Fitness or life related goals if you're looking for a powerful alloy to support you on this journey look now further than hu hu has become my secret weapon for when I don't have time to prepare a balanced meal it ensures I get the nutrition I need without sacrificing time or taste plus it stops me from reaching for that takeaway menu I always throw a bottle into my backpack when I'm heading into the city to work and it stops me eating junk convenience food snacking on crossons and bars of chocolate because I know they don't support my training goals it's a handy nutritious meal on the go and it's got over 22 gam of protein hu is perfect for athletes that don't have time to cook or prepare food before a training session it's convenient nutritious fuel at your fingertips ensuring you hit your daily fueling needs for that session hu ready to drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals in every single bottle you're getting a whopping 175 health benefits plus it's made from natural ingredients like Topeka Sunfire seed coconut and more the best part it's the flavor there's eight crazy beautiful flavors iced coffee is what's in my backpack right at the moment you can get hu directly to your home all you got to do is head on over to the hu website hu.com Roman yeah to me personally if I look at it I would say no you know like that uh and and and I I will always say to me Brady Wiggins was essentially the ultimate cycling comedian he had success on the road incredible success on so on the track multiple Olympic champion success as just a one-day road racer small tour it and then he went and won The Grand Tour you know so anything you gave him to do on a bike he would morph into it and do it I can't really tell you any other Riders current previous that have done something like that so he's definitely one in a million and he had success if you look at it from a Paul Mars but where he is today is that a a success of that success to me no but I have no context but if I just look at it from what you see on the outside to me no you know to me like a success would be you know doesn't matter whether you got divorced or not that's that's a a series of life but it's like is he happy is he Living Well if you want to call it is he healthy mentally physically Etc and when you look at it from the outside to me it doesn't look like it but I have no actual inside proof of it you know so to me it was like all that success didn't work you know and so is there a coaching job there for Wiggins if you could you know we had a time machine and we go back and we're working coaching Wiggins is there a pull on the rein here and maybe you don't need to devote 100% your focus to high performance that it's better to maintain some friendships another one that Springs up there's a brilliant documentary narra by I think it's called the weight of gold by Michael Phelps if you haven't watched it it's brilliant and he talks about how he was serly depressed and suicidal after winning the record number of Olympic gold medals and it's like how can these two things be true in the same sense it's such a it's such a paradox sure like but there with Olympic athletes it is common for for like for for all athletes I I am in the belief of this is that you know the highs are so high and the lows are so low that you do go from you know like a dog not seeing you for two weeks and running around like a lunatic to you know sitting there completely and utter clinically depressed and with the Olympics there there is a long history of you've worked so hard for say four years go to the Olympics you do your event whether it's 100 meters it's over in 10 seconds and if you get the result you wanted that's great if you didn't also not great but both effects after that is what are you doing there is nothing else if that's your last Olympics yeah you know so they never thought of anything on the Monday after the Olympics they only thought of everything until the Sunday until the event and In fairness often this is maybe a bit of aggressive thing to say is that once you're done with the Olympics your Federation doesn't care they just use you for the Olympics like let's be completely honest you know so there is no forward planning from that yes unless you back in the system and you go to the next Olympics or whatever the case may be or you have a two Olympics in you and you in the program but as soon as you done like unfortunately you done it's like it's any job if if I'm programming computers and the company finds somebody better and there's nothing for me I'm out you know yeah it's rootless and to Pivot that our conversation on Ultra endurance there's a phenomenon I've definitely experienced I'm sure you've seen it with athletes I call it the post stage race Blues you're with the guys for eight days you're living having the laugh you know there's there's motorbikes there's time checks there's crowds and then you go home and it's like there's none of that and it's hard to cope with that that's the same I think that's similar for Ultra endurance guys though how do you deal with that like the ultra endurance guys that I've dealt with and and I do deal with they are how' you say like they they are special um you know to go that deep and that long you need to have a bit of a dark side inside yourself to be honest that you have to tap into um otherwise I I I really don't believe you can complete them never mind complete them well and finish them but there I try you know like so say someone has come off Badlands my communication with them is to in the first few days it's like they're still on the high because they've completed it and they're good to go if there's nothing planned in event so hypothetically say they go I know the DAT don't work but say they go from Badlands to tracker it's easier to keep them in track with you're going hey we're going from here you know two weeks recovery what have you and then we're going to build a Tracker but if there's nothing that's when you need to start getting on the phone with them what is happening where we at and kind of identify where they are from a mute perspective and then give them what I try to do is give them smaller goals so even if it's like oh we're going to try do a new 5 minute power they have a goal to achieve and it keeps them there it's almost like boredom creates depression the job of a coach in whether it's World Tour or whether it's getting ready for these Ultras it's morph from purely physiological into physiological and psychological there's no doubt that in any of these events whether it's Rob Britton win and Badlands or whether it's your age group are going to complete it over five days you're going to experience a period of profound darkness of a moment where you're like why the hell did I sign up for this like what was I thinking I good life back home this is stupidity what systems can we put in place to almost preemptive systems knowing that that's going to happen is there a mental framework um struck by some of the team Sky Lads and talked to one of them and he had this idea of pressing his tum and his forefinger together his job was to bring Wiggins into position for the base of somebody as Pine climbs and he'd press his tumb and his forefinger together and for him that was the moment where he's like okay I've been away from my loved ones altitude camps and training camps for the better part of the year I've missed so much kids first steps communions friends birthdays weddings there's been so much sacrifice and the sacrifice is for this moment right here Wiggins needs to be in position at the bottom of v two it's go time or all that was impossible is there anything like that that we can tap into for when that inevitable dark hits yeah it's a good question um like yes there is what is it is right now I I I really don't have an answer exactly but yeah yes and no um yeah I I as I said I I don't have an exact answer what that specific point SLG go to is but I do believe that that is something that has to be in effect um going forward and and that's in a white thing whether it is that super domestic making sure that that one kilometer is the most important kilometer of the whole of July for him or whether it's someone as you said coming off Badlands and they got to Reb back introduce themselves back into sort of society by going back to work um is super important do you think you should replicate the darkness like should someone who's think we've we're stuck with Badlands is a common example so we stick with it but someone going to do Badlands should they do a ful length race wcky that puts them into that dark place both physiologically and psychologically no because I don't think you can replicate something like that to be honest I I really don't um that I believe you either have it in you or you don't yes you can improve it and learn to learn to use that Darkness if we use that as our term but I don't think you can replicate that in training like that term dark sounds like we're talking about Star Wars or something yeah exactly but but it is like you know like the last year like it's funny now but you know I I laugh about it now and we both laugh about it but the one athlete I was I that had done a race last year was like something like a 4,000 kmet nonstop I mean it it was stupid and like really it was stupid and uh towards probably halfway in towards the end you know I was getting voice notes at 300 a.m.
From him that he was literally saying to me like it amazed me he got he knew he was messaging because he was like hey John um just want to let you know this is an update book iPad orange elephant and we're gonna go swimming in the morning and that was his voice note and I'd be like mate like this is and then I'd voice him back and I'd be like hey like thanks for the was note like really good you know like keep going because I could track him obviously so I'd be tracking and he'd be going good and then like whatever 2 hours later hey just let you know I'm at kilometer 2800 and I'm going to be you know seeing my wife at 5 and then we're going to go do this on like Sunday night and I'm like mate it's Wednesday and you in the middle of nowhere you know but it he was completely like completely gone but yet he had enough sent to know he had to message me I suppose maybe that was a connection of his thing but I can tell you he was in an unbelievably dark place like there was no question about it but yet he was still fully functional so there he had Embrace that learn to use it and as I said I'm sure I wasn't the only one getting voice notes about elephants and stuff like that but you know there it was a positive Embrace and and I believe that that Ultra endurance takes a special mindset to do that you know like I've done a 24hour mountain bike and it was enough for me I mean like years whats up groups I've ever been in was at Badlands they set up a WhatsApp group for all the participants so you're watching us like after you finished and you're just seeing the the messag is coming in so you see this they use like cap to identify you so your number so someone puts in a message and it's like you know there's not a lot of traffic going into this it's really only for emergency updat so it's like hey guys cap 75 here I've run out of water and I'm in a pretty bad way it's like you're just sitting there you know you go for a bit of lunch or you walk down the town or whatever they like let's have a look how this drama unfolds and then it's like hey guys cap 75 again here I'm I'm starting to get really concerned with a chocolate milshake but eventually it P out it's like guys cap 75 send help it's like I've Rin I've rined fluid out of my sock I can get to like kilometer 90 you know but it's like why do we do it to ourselves yeah like I I do think that that sense of accomplishment when it's over is that ultimate high and I've never done that like as I said the most endurance thing I've done in one go is like a 24-hour mountain bike race you know yeah it was but even there 3:00 a.m. I was seeing stuff that should I should never have seen you know visually but you know there that's minimal compared to what is in today's Times you know it's um you know even when you speak to the guys that are doing the long gravel races of like 320 and 270 and just the nature of a gravel race like they go through some pretty rough PL places mentally in that yeah I seen lacklin on one of I can't remember which one it was one of his YouTube videos or maybe was he telling about at roller or something but he was going up a climb I think it was Badlands on the last day and he said he was looking up at the corner and he'd see the corner and then he'd ride for like 20 minutes and he wouldn't get any closer to the corner and he'd be like oh well that's weird I'm not going anywhere and then he's like I looked at the sky and he's like who there's a lot of stars and he looked at it again he's like wao there's an impossible amount of stars he's like oh no I'm in a really bad place here this but uh like as I said I think the outcome of that is like the ultimate High you know that's what brings them back to doing it again and it's almost like it's a bad example but it's like you know it's like a drug addict that needs a he gets the fix and they on the ultimate high and then that's like finishing the race and then they come down and they need that high again and that's when that specific personality athlete goes I'm going from Bad lands to 560 tracker you know because they they keep on Hunting that and as I said it takes a special person to uh to to to do those stuff you know whether it's they winning or even just finishing it to me it's it it takes a special person we get this drip down with everything from the world tour and everyone's been pushing Fuel and carbohydrates carbohydrates seem like the new arrow and the new doping mixed in together everyone's gone high octane on this 120 130 140 what happens if I take 180 to I explode and as a proxy that started to happen in Ultra endurance where people are really prioritizing this high carb in take yes you think it's necessary in Ultra endurance to take that many cars I would have taught a higher percentage of our workload has been fat fueled um straight out road racing um yes and no so if we just go to the the the road cycling side of it is especially over the last sort of four five years the nature of cycling has changed you know so it's I find it's a lot more aggressive from the gun to what it was before you can see it races are Foster now you know that it's as clear as daylight like rub now was Foster than the previous years yes there's a lot that comes into weather wind Etc but in general racing is a lot more intense you need to feel that intensity the only way you're going to do that is by fueling yourself the only thing comes in is that as an athlete yes you can train your gut for better absorption but there is a point where you can absorb it but or intake but is your body absorbing it so there will be a time where you as an athlete can only do 120 you can do it you can maybe take in 160 but you're not really absorbing it yeah you know so there there is that element that needs to come into effect from the ultra indurance side um again it's very personal on athletes yes when you look at it from a data side you are using predominantly fat that's where you are so you want to be your fat oxidation level needs to be good but again you still need to fuel you know and um with an athlete we had put a a really big focus on that last year and he did increase his carbohydrate intake we had gone from sort of like okay he was low he was on like 90 to begin with and we're now on 130 and there was a huge Improvement in performance I don't believe yeah I don't believe he can go more than that for many reasons because when you are totally smashed three days in and you've had 3 hours sleep in three days it is hard to eat so we had also changed what he ate at the same time um and we are looking at also just introducing which I'm not a fan of in world to a level I I personally believe there's not enough data but I also don't believe it's of any use a glucose monitor um I'm not anti it but I just think it's pointless at wter level but at the ultra endurance which is this is coming from one of my business partners who is a nutritionist he had given me this information which made sense especially on the ultra and stuff maybe a glucose monitor is good to just understand what he's or he or she as the athlete is doing over that long period of time because you can get you can stabilize over that period so but going back to the athlete was you know we we introduce a higher carbohydrate intake he definitely felt an improvement but then it was how we getting that in especially after 3 days you know like it's hard to eat solids after 3 days you also can't pack correct food for 3 days especially you pull up to petrol station and they only have X Y and Z you know available to you if it's really a a raw endurance event where they just say well here's a start here's a finish we'll hopefully see you in five days um you know so there we kind of tailored it to okay what response do you get out of certain stuff at a petrol station so to speak you know and what can you carry that's easy so if you can't take fuel like big solid stuff we now taking sort of like baby formula you know high in nutrition but easy to carry and just add water or just like baby slash so from the endurance side we've kind of started trying to specialize a little bit that way for him uh to improve but you know I can't see him doing I mean if he does 180 grams you need to ride with a string around his ears and a packet between his legs you know like you'll just be going to the toilet all day so yeah it's crazy specialed it's very very interesting that the trickle down is it's real from so much of this stuff from World there is performance gains just to finish open and circle back to uh one of the initial premises of the conversation that are listener to this they're balancing these conflicting demands and they're trying to get the best return on investment use a financial analogy they're putting in six hours a week eight hours a week 10 hours a week they want to maximize the adaptations they can get from that is there anything recoverywise that you're doing at Bora that you think amateur athletes should be implementing I'm thinking you know ketones post training you know space boots massage foam rolling ice Bots like the whole the whole plra of stuff what should we be doing um I would say rest is is is genuinely if we take one word I would take rest as your key kind of take home from it a lot of the time they do more than what they meant to and they scared of taking rest because I think if I don't rest I don't train I don't get better but often if you rest you get the adaptation and you do get better how you do that recovery or that rest whether it's as you said massage boots ice bars you know those three things if we take it as a reference there is no scientific evidence that shows that they work it's more Placebo but yet for myself if I have a massage I feel like a whole new human you know like that's what it is so whichever your goto is for that keep doing it um and and get that effect back from it so it's not like there's anything special that that you do it will to it's just that when you do recover you do it 100% correct make sure your nutrition is correct so you're eating correctly you're resting correctly and whether as you said it's you know ketones whether it's um yes there is evidence on that post training but I really wouldn't kind of try tell people everyday people to go and go that route but just make sure you recover properly and and don't be scared to to to rest to be honest like often that is where your um problem comes in is that they too scared to rest and when they go worse on the bike or they see a negative training or negative feelings they think oh I'm not fit enough I must train harder we do the absolute opposite take rest and you when you get back on the bike you'll typically feel stronger I'm mat Mich on the podcast and he had one really simple insise he said it took him almost a decade to figure out that the purpose of training was to get faster not just to train and it sounds so simple but but to think of someone at his level that's one Classics already is just having that Revelation yeah correct and look Mor like a legend let's be honest you know so you know for for and and I've heard how you know he's he not scared to train and stuff and you know as you said for him to have that Revelation now is you know if he does that he'll be even more dangerous you know so I my thing is is always that people are scared to rest and when they go worse on the bike they train harder which is literally the the worst thing you could do in my personal opinion take one step back and go two forward and you know that's even worse for amateur athletes because if you think about we typically have frequency how many days a week we can train duration how long we can train and intensity how hard we can train for amateur athletes we typically can't upper frequency we can't up our duration so when we're going bad it's normally we need more recovery but what do we do we yank at that frequency lever or we lank at the intensity lever and now 4x4 V2 Max becomes 6x4 V2 Max and we just go harder and harder and dig forer and further into that hole and I think the best way to get out of a hole is to stop digging the hole yeah and what what that amateur cyclist doesn't understand often is that they train they often have a wife and kid they may have a mistress they have a job they have yeah they've got all these other external factors that take a lot of energy to manage and do and you know if they train you know from whatever 6:00 to 8 in the morning they then go to a full 95 office job it's a lot of stress you're not really recovering you then got to your home see your wife see your kids as I said maybe your mistress is somewhere else you know there's there's a lot of stuff going on where you know that takes away from recovery time that they don't take into effect you know so it's not just they get to go home and not every pro cyclist goes home and puts his feet up but the availability to have more recovery at the end of a week in terms of hours is more than me and you going to work 100% John really enjoyed this conversation thank you very much been so generous of your time and best of luck at the yeah thank you looking forward to it if you enjoyed this video and you want to keep binge watching the content check this video it's a cracker also don't forget to subscribe to the channel that way I can catch you in the next one see you then
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
How do you periodise training for ultra-endurance cycling events like Badlands or Unbound?+
John Wakefield recommends building training in structured blocks that prioritise consistency over raw volume, especially for amateurs with limited weekly hours. The programme moves from general aerobic development into more event-specific work, with fatigue tested every 7 to 10 days to ensure the athlete is adapting rather than accumulating unsustainable stress.
Does bike fit matter for ultra-distance gravel racing?+
Wakefield argues that sustainable power in a comfortable position is more valuable than an aggressive aero setup a rider cannot hold for 12 to 36 hours. If fatigue forces you out of your aero position after hour four, you have given back any aerodynamic advantage and added unnecessary muscular strain. Fit for ultra events should prioritise long-duration comfort above short-term efficiency gains.
What is torque training and why does it matter for gravel racing?+
Torque or neuromuscular strength work involves riding at a low cadence under high resistance to develop force through the pedal stroke. Wakefield includes this in programmes for ultra-endurance athletes because gravel and mixed-terrain events place repeated demands on muscular strength, particularly on loose surfaces and steep gradients where smooth, high-cadence pedalling is not always possible.
How do professional cycling coaches monitor fatigue during a training block?+
Wakefield uses structured fatigue testing protocols every 7 to 10 days to assess how an athlete is responding to training load. Rather than waiting for performance to drop noticeably, regular short tests allow him to adjust volume or intensity before accumulated fatigue compromises adaptation. This approach is applied with WorldTour riders including Primož Roglič and Jai Hindley at Team Bora-Hansgrohe.
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