with Sean Landers
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Sean Landers shares the devastating story of losing his girlfriend Gabby to a road cycling accident, and how that tragedy has reshaped his relationship with cycling, grief, and what it means to live fully. This is a raw, honest conversation about PTSD, road safety, driver aggression toward cyclists, and finding meaning after unimaginable loss.
"Tomorrow's not promised to any of us. We can get so hung up on thinking about needing a nicer car or a mortgage, but really none of it matters. Have a laugh, spend time with good people, and we don't know how long we're here for."
"How does somebody that's a normal functioning citizen in society, has a car, insurance, able to dress himself and go about his day—how does he get into the car and become a murderer? I don't get that."
"There's the most painful thing you'll ever do: wanting to tell someone that you love them and just staring at the empty side of a bed. That is the deepest pain you'll ever feel when they're just gone."
“I've had really bad not even flashbacks but like actual hallucinations you know like while you're yeah you a go man behind the bunch next year hasn't happened in a race look it's usually around cars but yeah um but yeah like it's it's crazy it's hard you know”
“I found someone that I couldn't live without and now I have to live without it you know and it's like that just changes your your mindset on things you know”
“I thought when more people start cycling we're going to have a critical mass on the roads and everybody is going to know somebody who Cycles so cars will be super respectful of cyclists on the road because that's what I'd seen in Holland and Belgium anytime I've gone away I think it's gone completely the opposite way”
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Apply for Coaching →Sean Anto welcome must have crack never thought we'd be sitting here yeah neither did I when I'm swinging out of your whale on a race I didn't think we'd be sitting across each other for a Spanish Inquisition yeah good to have you yeah thanks for having me on you're looking Lan don't necessarily feeling lean but yeah the eating this order is it yeah good stuff good stuff I've got very little training done this year I was actually just before you came in I was Scouting Around the laptop you know you're p looking for a few races that are going to motivate you the Irish calendar is not going to motivate me to do any training CU I'm like I've done that before I've done that before so I'm kind of looking around at some mad epic gravel races around Europe thinking that could be the one that could get me motivated would you be tempted to dip into the dark side I don't know not yet anyway young yeah too young yeah I don't know I think just for now just trying to focus on the Irish stuff and trying to get a bit of Ross Moon Ross again so what's it like getting into getting back into a routine like do you mean specific to cycling or just in general like life getting back to college getting back to doing your laundry making your meals training just the normal 9 to5 yeah yeah be surprised how much that stuff uh like though is is is is hard like you know you like when what happened happened like the first thing that I was trying to do is try to keep my routine going um trying to like keep up with the things that I'm always doing like be it like laundry cooking because such simple things like that can be really really really difficult like and then like even on the bike just trying to keep getting out on the bike keep doing training and even if it was the last thing you wanted to do um trying to get out was was yeah um just trying to keep up with all that stuff and like even going back to college was really really hard too but cuz I remember we raced a prit past the pl the spot where Gabby got knocked down that can't been more than a month afterwards yeah that was a few weeks because yeah like the race organizers contacted me and they asked me like would I be okay to have that race around there and like sure I mean this last thing she'd want wasn't it to have a race canceled you know for because of her so I said it's fine um was it gone through your head every lap cuz every single lap I thought of actually I didn't think of it I lie every single lap I thought about where you thinking about it of course I was yeah yeah but it's like every time I get on a bike I think about it's a passing by that spot isn't any way different I mean like I when she first died like I used to go back to that spot quite a lot so it was kind of desensitized a lot for me like me and a lot of me and Gabby's friends would have just sat there for hours and it was you used it like a grave kind of thing you knows more like coffee and car cake my relationship with cying it it changes every year really when I don't even have traumatic events like if I even think back to why I started cycling and I spent a little bit of time in the offseason just being a little bit introspective and I look back when I start at cycling cycling is this kind of Escape it gets you out of you have this little Zone that your parents are you're not allowed outside that and then you get a bike and it's Freedom it's outside that and then you start racing and it's like this peer comparison you're you know we're racing each other I'm like oh I'm better than John this week he's better than me this week and you're you're cutting up and then you go to college and it's something you commute home from parties or you avoid the bus and then you know I tried to make a living out for a while didn't work out very well but it becomes a tool to make your living but tramatic events most totally change that relationship with the bike again what's your your relationship like with the bike now it's hard like it's really hard like you know I think competitive cycling is hard enough anyway you know especially when you're trying to balance like full-time jobs and all that sort of stuff with it but like you know when you get out on a bike now like they symptoms of like I'd be suffering a lot with kind of PTSD and stuff and the symptoms would be stronger on a bike you know what I mean you kind of have this sense that there's always something wrong something's going to happen like even friends going out on a bike you get that kind of just a little bit of worry that something's going to happen happen and you know you'd get flashbacks like on on the bike and stuff like I've had really bad not even flashbacks but like actual hallucinations you know like while you're yeah you a go man behind the bunch next year hasn't happened in a race look it's usually around cars but yeah um but yeah like it's it's crazy it's hard you know but I think the part that maybe you're aware maybe you're not but you obviously had that no one had a closer proximity to Gabby than you but radiating out from that then there's a a group of people who knew her super well there's a group of people who knew her quite well and there's a group of people like me who maybe only came in contact with her a handful of times you know with nod to say hello to her but I think it impacts all of those groups all the way out like you know my girlfriend Sarah is out cycling this morning and she said she's going to do two and a half hours which is's not back in after 3 hours mhm and straight away your head goes to that dark place when that wouldn't have happened a year ago yeah I think a lot of people are saying that to me like it is it's just like you say people that didn't even know it but just knew just came across the news article now are a lot more scared of their loved one cycle on the road because it's it's kind of one of those things that like you always know it's a risk right like don't you like you is always something that cross your mind like when you're out training and but you never think it's going to happen to do and everything like they sure like this that's just what happens that's what you read in the news you know it's never going to happen and then when it happens to someone that like you say you know it's completely different then it just completely changes here I remember years ago probably five six years ago myself and mutual friend of our sha McKenna were out training and we were out in North County Dublin not too far away from where Gabby's hit near Blake's cross we were riding out towards scaries doing endurance ride and we came across a crash on the road and someone was down and we went to see if we could help or not and there was people already gathering around and one of the lads said look it's under control look you're not really doing out and here only you know causing more of a sing H there's an ambulance on the way one of the people here is a doctor so it's under control as best it can be and so we're like Okay cool so we cycled off didn't think any more of it you know you see crashes all the time especially with beginner type cyclists so didn't really think an of it went to scares had a cup of coffee uh riding home and there's a police checkpoint and said no you can't go back that way the roads closed and we were like what's the real clo for and he said there's a cycl fatality and that was the first time I'd ever come in contact with the cycl fality I didn't know this guy but that was the first time I ever remember starting to feel unsafe on the bike I think before that maybe as in a state of like ignorant Bliss where you know Big Data people do die on the roads each year but because I hadn't that proximity to it or that personal experience to it I never actually thought it was a possibility it's like you know like you always hear like I'm sure you've been hit with by cars plenty of times like you know only once oh okay you got a few Banks just cycling through town and stuff like just innocent lightting but like you never kind of think anything like really you never think you're going to die from it you know what I mean it's kind of it's crazy um I remember I don't know if you remember Sean Lynch as well in 2019 and the race in Wexford like I unfortunately was witnessed to that too and uh like again that sort of stuff really Prett kind of hauny as well like sure he's missing in the bunch as well like it doesn't seem that doesn't seem in the realm of possibilities that you think about as a cyclist you think about if I slip out on this kind of Frosty weather I could break a collar bone and it could be out for half the season or you know I've had bad crashes I had a I love that saying people go oh the slow ones are as bad as the fast ones like as someone who's crashed at 2 kilometers an hour and someone who's crashing at 95 km an hour I can tell you the fast one's a lot worse yeah I traffic Island coming off the p in the when I was racing out in France at about 90 95 km an hour and I had enough time going through the air to actually think about how s it was going to be hitting the ground I remember going through the air going this is going to be bad and I hit the ground and even on the ground going to move and thinking oh no I'm paralyzed yeah and think you got paralyzed in a bike race you're absolute idiot but then the relief that you know there's no serious some broken bonds but now serious Legacy injuries but that almost seems like we do consent to that level of accident happens especially as bike racers and you know I know training crashes like that are quite rare thankfully but in my head I've never thought that I consent to any sort of contact with cars that's been a a line that I've never broached it's it's funny like you know you go out for your session and like like you know I think it's fair to say like maybe not now but you were once an athlete on the R of this but like Gabby was an athlete you know what I mean she was top like top of the game and every time she went out on the bike it was oh what's my heart rate what are my intervals what am I this never like you say did it cross her mind that oh like you know like oh what could be hit by a car today you know what I mean it's kind of it's crazy and I think a lot of people's minds have changed now because of that how was the tragedy changed or reshaped your outlook on life I mean there's a lot of things that that Chang nothing even to do with the fact that the way she died but just when someone dies like that just changes your whole view on things you know like what's the stage of grief how does that work well like they say you go through all sorts of things like I think it's like denial anger depression but like you just seem to kind of have them all like at once you can have them all in one day like yeah you can have them all in one day like it's you know sometimes I've I've def well I've been for a long time thinking like is life even worth living you know with all this but then you kind of come out of it and you kind of go maybe it is worth living and maybe you need to appreciate smaller things like and you never know when your time is going to come and you realize like all the things that you would have been just stressing about little things like [ __ ] staying a little bit later and work and all this sort of these stupid little things we stress over like traffic and stuff it all just doesn't matter does it like you know at the end of the day we're all just we're gone and we're all here for such a short time so we may as well just do things that we enjoy and I remember talking to a friend about this recently who suffered a tragedy in his family and he had a quote that said like tomorrow's not promised to any of us we can get so hung up on thinking about you know I need a nicer car I need a mortgage the cost a living crisis but really none of it matters like it's have a laugh spend time with some good people and we don't know how long we're here for exactly and it's something they always kind of think like that it's kind of like you know getting hit by a carrots like you never think you know tomorrow like you never know tomorrow is going to be your last day and then eventually it is and um that's something that we just never accept we I think we always it's too uncomfortable and even the idea of death is so uncomfortable to even think of like like it's but it's knocking on the door for us all at some point isn't it so um yeah I read a lot of stoic philosophy and one of the kind of central tenants of stoic philosophy is is this idea of momentto Mor and they use a lot of symbolism around skulls and Debs that's very prevalent and people from the outside look at and say oh that's so morbid but the idea of momentto Mor is we will die that's what it means and that's not in some sort of fatalistic or what's the point we will die it's more in a enjoy your life because you never know there's a last time meditation which I try and do quite a bit and it's like imagine that today was my last ever bik right you know how would I Sav her getting kitted that morning would I do a oh my God I have to go out again on the bike or would I actually cherish that getting kids you can extend that to you know one of your good training Partners one of your friends one of your family if it was the last chance you ever got to ride with them what would you say to them what stories would you tell you know how would you share those moments because you experienced your last ever rid with Gabby but other people listening to the podcast they also will experience a last day a last ride a last hour or with their loved ones we just don't know when but we definitely know there's going to be a last day yeah I mean like and I can tell you one thing for sure there's the most painful thing you'll ever do is wanting to tell someone that you L them and that you're just staring to the empty side of a bed you know what I mean and I'll tell you that is the most deepest pain you'll ever feel when they're just gone like that you know and I guess that's what's kind of shaped my thinking I mean like you know it's kind of like I I found someone that I couldn't live without and now I have to live without it you know and it's like that just changes your your mindset on things you know was all your chats and talks with Gabby around planning for the future we at that stur relationship yeah it would have been yeah like um I'm studying physiotherapy now she had a nice stable job in Microsoft and um yeah it was just about getting me qualified and then saving up and she actually wanted to move to kill Kenny she fell in love with it after ran I think she only rode there in the rain so I'm not sure quite sure how she got over it but yeah I think that was kind of her spot she wanted to go to we talked earlier in the week and we were saying you know is it worth doing this podcast and we're saying back and forth that I think if one person listening to this podcast changes their drivve and behavior or if they share it with someone in their club or they share it with someone in their family and they Chang their driving behavior then I was like it's a massive success because the roads are dangerous and it's from what I can see largely driver in attention you can put speed phones reckless driving all into that same bucket of in attention MH like I was interested to talk to you because like I've done a few of these like podcasts now and and never really done it with another cyclist you know and it's kind of like people are asking me questions of what I think on the roads but like you know what the roads are like you've been on the roads longer than me like you know well like maybe you do you agree that they are they getting worse do you think they're getting worse I think when I started cing I'm cing since I was in second year we went to the same University second year in UCD so I'm cycl do mons on that 12 13 years and at the time there was very few people cycling I went into UCD Cycling Club and there wasn't a road section of that there was no one there I was the first person doing Road and we were building the club and at the time you'd go out on the road and and cars would be a little bit shocked to see it because we obviously missed that like Steven roach Sean Kelly boom where everyone talked about cand this was in an area era where there wasn't really Nicholas roach was kind of Performing but he wasn't very successful sorry Nic he wasn't super successful so there wasn't a lot of public awareness so going out on the roads I always thought oh it it's a little bit dangerous but it's just because cars don't really know how to treat bikes it's like if you see one of those Lads on the onewheel things now and they're dressed in helmets and they look like they're from the future and you're kind of like how do I go around this lad like how much space do I need to give them you're a little bit unsure and that's how I viewed cars back then and I had this in retrospect what was a naive view about how this was going to evolve I thought when more people start cycling we're going to have a critical mass on the roads and everybody is going to know somebody who Cycles so cars will be super respectful of cyclists on the road because that's what I'd seen in Holland and Belgium anytime I've gone away I think it's gone completely the opposite way I think there's so many cyclists on the road now you know some good some bad but drivers all seem to have a story about a cyclist you know taking up the whole Road or a cyclist running a red light dangerously or nearly hitting a pedestrian and there's such a hate for cyclists among drivers they've almost dehumanized them like I've seen memes with I actually sent someone a message on Facebook on can you take that down it's like it was a meme about how he hit someone in his car and he looked back and it was only a cyclist I was like the bit that people Miss is like they husbands their fathers their sons their daughters they're not cyclists mhm so it's got so much worse I think I for the first time started trying with a rare light this year yeah yeah like it's I think I I think it's gotten worse I think that aggression that that you get that real kind of you know like people just like like threatening you with their car almost like they're overtaking just cutting in in front of you and um you just like just shouting abuse out the window beeping at you it's it's it's like they're really just trying to get on your nerves and get at you you know what I mean and like yeah like I said threaten you you know what I mean it's scary like it's really scary because you come into contact with a with a any sort of carrier What A Catch Roan you know how serious I take my goal setting and I know how serious you take it too so whether are you're Chas in Fitness or lifestyle goals and 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what's in my backpack at the moment you can get hu direct to your home by going to hu.com roadman that's hu huel.com roadman like you're doing it's going to come off worse than that I was coming down through a local training Road here uh won't make any sense International listeners but down near Balo training Road I'd go on all the time and a few months ago uh towards the tail end of the summer a car came past and he came past so fast and close that he hit my knuckles with his wing bear and I was actually really I trying on my own I was super chill I was listened to call playay or something and so I cruised up I caught him in a little bit of traffic I cruised up and I wasn't aggressive at all I like tapped on the window and I was like oh hey man you were super close to me there I was like a little bit more room uh because you know if that was maybe an inexperienced Rider they could have went down and done some damage like I was thinking about if Sarah got a past that close she'd probably go down yeah and and he said next time I won't miss and I was like whoa whoa like how does somebody that's a normal functioning citizen in society has a car insurance able to dress himself and go about his day how does he get into the car and become a murderer like don't get that like these people like if you met him in the street like he he probably wouldn't even say anything to you know what I mean like it's just they're so hard when they're neck hards like I don't know it's like it's it's so scary like and and I always think like the scariest place for any cyclist to look at is the kind of common section on any of these online posts you see about um cycling safety or you know like you might see the RSA do a post promote one and a half meters if you ever go and read the comments on that like it's it's uh it's scary that these people are that typing these things are also driving on the roads and like even I put out a tweet before and and even like people obviously oblivious to my whole situation but WR writing comments like you know cyclists are wankers that's the problem and all this sort of horrible stuff and uh like you don't want to accept your own responsibility these kind of horrible things it's just just pure hatred isn't it like look I've tried reasoning on occasion where I try not get involved because I I typically find that if you go out the door and you're in that mentality they're going to get involved in trouble you're going to find trouble in the roads because it's so frequent so I try not to get involved but I think we were all a bit Twitchy for the couple of months after Gabby passed and everyone was reacting to stuff and I remember talking to trying to reason with one driver going like you've nearly killed me and he's like but you're too a breast and I was like okay well let's run that argument firstly let's park the fact that I'm legally entitled to be too aast because it's a subjective standard you can be too aasted unless it's unsafe to do so but the unsafe to do so is subjective not objective so objective meaning he can't decide if it's unsafe to do so I is the cyclist have to decide so I tried to explain to him okay okay fine we're too aess Grand we're in the wrong does it mean I should die and it was just a blank look on his face he couldn't you know process that the sentence he was dishing out for us being to a breast was a dead sentence and that sentence does not fit that crime no no it's crazy and like the analogy I like to use is like you know these people who are so stressed with their time when they're going to their destination that they need to be so precise to the second but yet like they'll walk into their local coffee shop and they'll be two extra people in the queue and that'll be an extra two minutes on their day where versus you know 10 20 seconds of cyclist adds on and they're not going to go cutting in front of those people and threatening to kill those people in the coffee shop Cube because they've delayed their day by two minutes you know what I mean it's just it's just this one soon as we're in lyer and have hair helmets on they have this just hatred towards us isn't it like I try to make an argument if it's anything where you know for a long time vaccines were a big Hot Topic among athletes you know is going to lead to some sort of myocarditis or not and no matter what my opinion is on something whether it's say provax or antiva I try and flip sides and go well can I make an argument for the opposing Viewpoint to try and understand what the pain points here might be and I tried to flip into the driver's seat that was a nice little analogy IED to flip into the driver's seat a couple of times in my head and think how can I rationalize that how can I rationalize hting somebody or bringing somebody down because they're too a breast or because they're slowing me up and I just can't yeah I can't say I can't either can't find any anything from it I mean like you know you can like you've been in the car I'm sure where like you've been behind cyclist and like it's slight inconvenience if you're in a rush but it's maybe we're just more level-headed because we're cyclists and we know that like you know like they're just out for a spin like you know okay I'm now going to be 20 seconds later to where I was going to be but like I'm still going to get there you know what I mean and if I can be patient I'll get there and then they'll get to their destination too you know well the wild thing is with the close passes I run a group ride on a Saturday morning which is very mixed abilities from you know some riders that are category one some Riders all the way down to doing their first sport heaths this year so very very mixed ability and I see the mixed ability people and they're not Wheels I would right too close to because they're very inexperienced like when we started you don't really know what you're doing they're not bad they're just at the start of that progression curve so they are not very good at holding consistently straight lines and I always worry that one of them is going to get close past at a time where they look over their shoulder and they Veer two foot to the left and that's gone it's game over and this is not a p in the sky thing this is there's a percentage chance that's going to happen on every beginner groups B anywhere in the world yeah and like sometimes I even think like is there even any point like like me doing this podcast and stuff because like am I even going to be able to change anything like you know before this happened to me no one would ever listen to me you know no one I'm just a stupid cyclist like whatever like but I had to take the most unfortunate circumstances for people who I get a lot of messages from people who don't know me and don't know Gabby but friend of a friend or whatever and they say oh I heard your thing and I'm going to take consideration with driving it was very good whatever but like the mentality seems so fixed and horrible from drivers sometimes I think it's even any point fighting it and then I even think like is there even any point just cycling at all you I mean it's it's it is really really scary place and like if I had kids I'm not sure I'd be wanting them to go out on a bike I same I I talk with these friends who are you know cyclist and xpros all the time now it's like would you put your kids in the cycl a sport look I absolutely love it it's given me so much and you know I've made Amazing Friends travel the world with it but it's so so dangerous at the moment out there that risk to reward I wonder would we be better off you know taking up mountain biking or you know taking up running or CrossFit or something yeah like I it's hard to say in this it comes up but I'm not don't think I would be happy if I had kids in there they recycling do you mind taking me back to the day it happens because I'm assuming it started out like any Saturday morning you're going for group roid or coffee Spin and we talked about that last time meditation you I'm guessing at time there's no appreciation of taking in those things you're probably running a million scenarios in your head ever since and I wish I done this different I wish I said that no idea yeah what was that day like it was actually a lovely day today show sponsor is pillar well we're all familiar with the importance of electrolytes and carbohyd hydrates and our role in our race preparation pillar is taking a completely different route it focuses on micronutrition ensuring we're ready to perform even before we hit the start line it's all about promoting a good night's sleep facilitating effective recovery and replenishing those crucial micronutrients so you can perform at your very very best I've been running my own personal little experiment over the past month and I've been incorporating pillars triple magnesium supplement into my evening routine I take it about 30 minutes before bed and the 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Shop and use the code roadman on your local website for 15% off your first order if you're watching this in the US head over to the feed.com pillar and use the code roadman for 15% of that first order as well now let's get back to the show we were just after doing the Ross and it was like a week out like 5 days after the Ross finished and just out out out for a spin we were going to we were just going to go for coffee sit outside it was like it was really sunny um it was uh just a really nice day it was a Saturday morning and I actually just stopped on the road I stopped for a piss on the road just um just you and Gabby our trainer yeah and she just went on ahead and I was catching back up to her and I he turned the corner uh you know where the road is so yeah we were going like North we were going south to North on the road and I just saw a car with completely big Smash in the front of it the wind screen completely smashed and I saw her bike then uh like my f before I even saw her bike I just thought this is a car crash do you know I mean it didn't look like a bike crash didn't look like someone tapped the bike you know it looked like a car crash and um yeah and I saw her biking and I just I clicked in I was like oh no [ __ ] this isn't a car crash like this is she's in his crash and um yeah just but the scary thing was like there was she was nowhere to be seen you know like you know normally like people are just lying with their bike or whatever clipp in even she was nowhere and like she was very she was far from her bike you know she was a good bit from the bike and took me a while before I even found her like you know I was calling her name and no answer and um obviously that was really horrible like and I eventually just saw her she was upside down and in the ditch and um really horrible injuries because is it even hard to process at that time cuz we talked about the range of possibilities on a training Spin and we calibrate these as cyclist subconsciously all the time if you know me and you were going for a bunch Sprint in the Ross you're going into that with an awareness that I could get badly injured if this goes wrong likewise on a training spin you kind of have a different set of circumstances which you think are possible when you're on a coffee spin the set of circumstances that you think might potentially happen they're very very narrow you don't even anticipate you know a broken chain and going over the bars there was it hard to initially process this and go this is a bad accident and reconcile that with I never imagined there could be a bad accident on this spin well like I think I just I panicked not even panicked but I think I just went into pure crisis mode and it was just absolutely like what like what can I do now to save her like you know because it still even took me a while before I even went into that M because I didn't even realized she was dead initially you know like I first saw her and picked up her hand and I just went to hold her hand you know like can just comfort her and say knew instantly this is bad well not until I picked up the hand and it was um it was really floppy you know and I just checked for a pulse and no pulse in the wrist and no pulse on her neck and you kind of look at her then and you're like a [ __ ] this is not good and it's almost like you get that real sinking Moment Like and it's like like I'll never forget that you know um just started doing CPR to her chest like I just didn't know what no idea like what what training you have for those sorts of situations like and I just didn't know what to do so I did that and you know it was just like the most like violent kind of injuries that she had like you know severed abdomen and stuff and all her skin was ripped off and off her chest and it was horrible like absolutely horrible and you're there down in the Deep of the ditch like pumping CPR while you're waiting for the ambulance to come and people went and got the fibrillator like a few people passed by like there's um couple of cyclists and drivers that passed by and they helped me got defibrillator we set it up up but when we went to stick it on her like there was so much skin loss like on her top of her ribs it was just nowh you could even stick a patch like it was that she was that bad like and um it was when we couldn't stick the defibrillator patch on that the ambulance hadn't even come at this point it's kind of out there I don't where's the closest ambulance or closest hospital to that um I actually don't even know which one came I think they sent it them from a few different locations but um yeah bit in the middle of nowhere but yeah I just crawled out the ditch like and just fell on the ground and just just crying just in shock like you know I mean like what the hell did you do like that's it like what do you do yeah like it's so weird because like there's some parts of that event that I can't remember at all but yet there's some parts that are so vivid In My Memory you know and I guess just like I I'll never forget that like I gu happened that's a lot of my problems is like that real PTSD of the feeling of like pumping her chest and stuff and that sound of it and it was yeah and did you waste there we like are you still trying to resuscitate till the ambulance comes no I I when we couldn't stick the diff player patch I I couldn't I had no more energy left to give I just I knew it was you know like I think I think when you when you break down her injuries it was nothing any like it could have done at all and one of the other passor wise stepped in for me and and did the CPR until the ambulance came but I was just like lying on the ground and just um yeah just waited for them to come did you go in the ambulance no my dad came down um so there's a long time passing here to your on the side of the road oh like hours yeah like CU then the guards came and and I to like give all her name and address and stuff and and then I to do the identification of the body and stuff because they wanted to save me I want to go down to identify later that even so they said if I was happy to do it there so I identified it there and yeah it's there for a good while while they just I mean I couldn't move I was in shock like I just couldn't speak or move or you know I remember we've our Saturday groups beenin which goes to the coffee shop which I guess guess you guys were going to that day the little coffee H in Oldtown which is you know only a couple of kilometers away from the site and I remember getting in from that coffee ride and having to text off a friend that a sist had died out that direction and immediately I was just like obviously every life is equal but I was like I hope it's not someone I know because they're training roads that like we use and you know a lot of the local cyclists in the north Dublin Community use those training roads and instantly it's like a hope that's not someone I know and then later on that evening I got a text from another friend anding it's Sean's girlfriend Gabby I was like oh my God I actually can't believe it because there was another death uh recently I not recently but around the same time that I heard about and you know every debt is tragic but I was able to compartmentalize that other cycling debt because I was able to look at it and say okay he was quite inexperienced by Handler and it was a you know we call it in cycl Pilot error there was a little bit of you know mismanagement that was bike that that resulted in him having the accident and then the consequences were tragic but with Gabby none of us could do that because it's like well she's won the national league she's the best female rider in the country for the last 12 months her bike handling is at least as good as mine if not better so any situation that resulted in her getting injured that bad could have happened to me and could have happened to anyone else I love yeah and she was so safe on the roads as well like it's it's like out of anyone that you know like you know we've all gone downhills fast and so on but she was so safe like there's no one she really didn't deserve her to happen to her at all like is is this stuff helping is the is talking about helping I mean it's hard to know like it's nice to think that maybe I'm helping like you know I feel like I have a voice now that people will listen to and I don't even mean it's a helping the the community I think undoubtedly it's having a huge impact bigger than you know on road safety but is it making it harder on you I don't know really like it's probably just hard anyway so I may as well you know like like I'm going to be sad anyway so I may as well talk about it you know um like I'm doing lots of counseling stuff to try to desensitize to it and get rid of all the PTSD stuff and then also help me with like the real kind of grief and depression side of things like if she because they're two different things aren't they so I have no idea sorry I'm super naive on this what's the difference between PTSD and the normal grief that you go through after a bement well like grief would be like someone just died in their sleep so that's like just sad just missing someone you know what I mean like like all the the normal things and I'm sure many people listening will have lost someone they absolutely love and um like my heart goes out to them because it's an absolutely horrible place to be in especially if it's someone you love so deeply like a partner like that's as you know like that's an extension of yourself isn't it like that's the closest person to you it's the person you share the most intimate moments with and you have all your plans and you do everything to every decision you make is with them and then all of a sudden just like that it's it's all over so you have that and in the PTSD I mean I guess the best way to describe it as if you saw anyone in the ditch like that that day it didn't have to be someone you know you saw a body and you back from Battle it's same thought yeah like you know like that whole thing of like you know blood all over you like and seeing like you know what I mean like her like she had horrible horrible injuries I don't even want to say but like it's horrible stuff that were her body just cut open in all sorts of places and it was like that would mess you up if you saw anyone like that and uh but then when you make it the person you love the most it's it's pretty hard I'm not going to lie how do you go about managing that Perfect Storm I don't know I've probably not done it the most healthy ways I mean like there's been friends I've leaned on a lot there's my family are great but it's I guess just kind of talking about it and trying to even physical exercise like I've been cycling not so much more running gym going to the gym and stuff but just kind of doing exercise and that but just staying close with friends and it's not always been easy but you just kind of have to keep socializing keep yourself busy but not be too busy because you have to let yourself feel things you have to let the tears come out I don't think you can avoid this you just have to go through it you know but like I mean like I've I developed a quite unhealthy relationship with drink and other substances and I've kind of you know You' be drinking alone and stuff and that's horrible just to know it or is it to forget it to know it's you're in so much pain it's and the pain is physical you know it's like you're there it's like my hands are painful you know I mean my face is painful and it's like you're in college and it's all just getting a bit too much and you just feel you need to escape the world a little bit and you do that but I mean I'm out you around of that thankfully now but what's the role of friends been like in this is it it's difficult for them to know how to interact with you or is that maybe just the outer layer of acquaintances rather than your good friends well I've been a huge pain in the years like I've just been like there like I get a lot of people who are sending me really nice texts and I absolutely love that because it's just nice to know what they're thinking of me but then there friends will just come and meet me um and even I'll say I don't want to meet you they'll just come and they'll be like all right we'll sit in silence if you don't want to talk you know and I think that's just really nice and you know they say oh I've booked dinner at this place at 6 o' for x y and Zed you know we'll all be there you can come and all those things are really really helpful and then the cycling friends would be bring me out on the bike and they're patient with me and encouraging me to keep cycling and because like if I lost cycling I don't know where I'd be like it's I I kind of need to keep that going and they're really good for that but yeah and then like I've like gone a lot closer to some people as well which is is really nice and I guess like like a lot of people are sharing the grief with me too like a lot of her friends are really really upset and you know miss her every day and a lot of them can't even hear me talk about the day because it's too triggering for them and um think she's missed by a lot of people and it's nice to kind of share that with them remember we went for a brew a couple of months ago and like was good phone but it's the first time we'd met probably and arranged to meet outside of cycling kit ever was the first time in cies I didn't even know you own jeans and t-shirts I thought you only own cycling kit but I was definitely left after the conversation wondering like have I helped at all there or is have I made this lad's problems worse because and I would say a lot of people are kind of taking a backseat and they want to chat to you more about it and they want to offer help or they want to get involved in stuff that you're now starting to advocate for like cycling safety but there may be just a little bit scared to how do you have this conversation because orward conversations are hard yeah it's hard like and even when we met like that was like I was in a really bad place then like I was in a really bad place um like I'm better I think now but like you know I definitely leaned on a lot of people to take me out of there um but yeah I guess it's something that's heard like I think even people are afraid to talk to me even bring her name up but I think anyone that's lost someone really close will know that like there's nothing I love more than to talk about her because when someone dies that's all you have is just memories and talking about them you kind of feel connected with them again so it's i' I'd sit here and talk about her all day how do you think we could improve Road Safety that's such a good question like and I think it has to come from the human aspect of it of behind drivers because like like I don't know if you agree but like I think that when when one day hopefully soon we have self-driving car there probably will be no more accidents on the roads because they'll be all controlled by machines they'll be set up to all they'll know each other are coming and it'll be a bit of a utopian world but probably will happen one day self driving cars um and I think then cyclist will stop getting killed but and does that kind of then answer like how do we get there then today with humans driving the cars and I guess it is just I think people are don't think that they don't really realize they're driving a weapon do they you know and like even like anyone that's ever killed anyone on the road has never set out to do that that day do you know what I mean and like probably their lives are all changed forever as well and I think people just need to realize how like they're they're holding a gun you know what I mean and they have their finger on the trigger and it's a matter of where they if they decide to shoot it or not you know what I mean and I think people just don't fully realize the responsibility they have when they're behind the car they just think like oh it's you know I mean like it's a mode of Transport is a mode of Transport but like you know in some utopian society would we have everyone who's training to drive have to do some mry 20 hours of cycling on the road I mean that would be bad IDE that would be very good I mean if we could do that but I don't think you're going to get all sorts of objections to that like but Do's the system same in Northern orelans which is the best system I've seen anywhere in the world I'm not sure if they rolled it out beyond the pilot but basically you have uh a police officer who is a cyclist who dresses up in cycling kit and goes out training all day and when he gets a close pass he has a GoPro or some similar camera equipment on his bike and he radios ahead to they working a tandem so it's him and a motorbike he radios ahead with a motorbike to the motorbike sends across the footage motorbike pulls up the cars like you close past here's the footage how do you play to it guilty on the spot fine for it and if there's enough of those out there I feel like motor will go okay there's a chance he's a police officer but I think it's at scale it's got to be mentality shifts and somebody the I even hear politicians and stuff talking about accidents and they be like was he wearing a helmet and it's like helmet's a mitigation of damage helmet's assuming that we're going to get hit now how can we prevent the damage being really bad when we get hit like I've gotone into hospitals with broken collar bones and they're like were you wearing a helmet I was like it's my me collar bone that's broke where obsessed with this helmet and I think it's people view it as Motors view it as this bubble of safety around cyclist I can close past him because he's wearing a helmet yeah there's a study out of Australia to show that when cyclists weren't wearing helmets Motors weren't pass them as close yeah I saw that that's interesting like they probably probably wasn't even a scratch on Gabby's helmet you know what I mean it was probably one of those things like it's a yeah it's it's like I think it's some sort of Shield we have isn't it yeah we're pushing this green agenda here in Ireland and you know around the world a lot with trying to get carbon neutral and because of that a lot of governments are putting money into cycling infrastructure and that's a little bit of a bug bear for me as well I'd love to hear what you think on this one because there's cycling tracks that are costing tens of millions going in all around here right now and I you know they are brilliant but I'm like could we take 10% of that 20% of that expenditure and actually use it to try and create a mentality shift there was a campaign I seen run in Canada when I was living out there a few years ago and it was on in the cinema before movies and it was like you know this girl i' be like hi I'm Cynthia I'm a mother of three children and I'm a cyclist it's like hi I'm Ed I'm your Postman I deliver your post every morning you're super friendly to me every morning I'm also a cyclist and it's trying to De because theyve dehumanized cyclist they're a cyclist on the road they're an obstacle an inconvenience but it's trying to get back to going actually other people it wasn't a cyclist that got hit and killed it was Gabby it was Sean's girlfriend it was you know someone's daughter it was someone's friend yeah like I do think that we like I don't know how we do that though do you know what I mean but I think you're right like as in no one wants to like you know if if someone actually you know was in their car and they actually stopped for a second and go like they like oh they see a cyclist and they think actually no that's that's not a cyclist like that's someone like you say someone's daughter someone's friend like I don't like there's no way they can have aggression towards them like I just I don't think so anyway so like how do we get that into their minds like you know like do people need to hear me talk do people need to like or ads the right thing like even that like police thing in Northern Ireland like you know part of that makes me think like is that just going to create even more hatred and friction between cyclist cuz people are just going to hate cyclist even more so like I just think we need to get that out of out of it's the US versus them isn't it yeah but how do we do that I don't know and I've seen it gone the other way I often think that I looked to North America for Trends because when I was living out there racing I seen a lot of stuff that they were doing seven eight years ago we pick it up seven or eight years later be it fashion trends like Canada Goose be it coffee Trends or whatever and I'm seeing degression Trends coming here like to the point that I'd have teammates in the US and they' they'd be riding with like a a pocket full of quarters for to show our cars in traffic to damage the paintwork it's crazy and it's just keeps building on that o versus damn o versus them but that's do no good for the relationship between cyclist and drivers either like I think we like we are often like like you said there you had a good interaction with a driver where you kind of kindly stopped and politely said hey you didn't give me enough room there but I think like sometimes cyclists aren't doing us any favors and like they you know effing and blinding and like just going swerving and you know maybe sometimes it is better to single out and let a car pass and just give them a away and then that is a positive interaction you know what I mean but some psychist some people even I go out with where like they just get angry with cars and I'm just like man that's doing no favors for this relationship that we're trying to build here like you know well one of my ones on that is people are bang on the side of cars or tap on the side of cars going through like you know obviously I've been riding the bike a long time and I've tapped on the side of a lot of cars in my time you know with different degrees of ferocity in it it has never helped the situation it aggravates 100% of the time when you hit someone's car they're shocked and they respond with aggression every time but I see so many riders doing oh give us some space and tap on the car and it again it's just it's creating barriers not Bridges and then that driver the next time they see a cyclist will have that in the back of their head and then that cycl just be innocent they just then do something to them you know so almost there's a concept in law called cumulative provocation and it came from a housewife that was maybe she the the guy came home from work and he'd had a few drinks after work and he hit her a couple of slaps and this happen week after week month after month year after year and eventually he comes home from work and he hits her a couple of slaps and she blows his brains out and then she goes to court and self-defense isn't really a defense there because like you were only slapped and you shot someone that you know that's not proportionate there's no proportionality there and that's why this battered wife or cumulative provocation came up and I think about the relationship with cyclist and drivers on both sides is this it's a cumulative provocation because sometimes you will react but when you react it's not because someone close past you it's because you've been close past hundreds of times and you've seen consequences like you've seen and that's why you react but it's the same the other way around for drivers because as you rightly said they're having loads of these like little mini confrontations with cyclists on the road and they're remembering it the next time they see a cyclist m and like I think it's I don't know it's like a certain cohort of people as well that are typically the worst for it as well like you know like people even like know when they're driving their range overs and stuff like those kind of people seem to be the really aggressive ones I could just hate cyclist you know what I mean um but like yeah I don't know like how how do you change that mentality like you know yeah I I don't know the answer to it what do you think Gabby would wanted you to do in relation to what exactly in relation to you said you've had dark thoughts and you've you've thought about ending it all now you've gone a road where you're you're speaking on podcasts you're becoming an advocate for road safety what would she be whispering in your ear she's right I mean I'm saying stupid things on the podcast and stuff she but I don't know she I guess she'd be would she be happy that like I'm trying to make something come of this horrible day like that it's not just like I I sort of think like when I'm deciding like you know when people ask me to come on things and do interviews or whatever and I'm just like deciding like if I want to do it I think like I could just sit here and do nothing you know and I could just you know she died and that's it and I could just try to fix myself but I had this opportunity to be able to maybe change other people and use the worst thing that could have ever happened to her and me into something not into something positive but you know what I mean get something positive out of it and if it stops someone else going through what I'm going through then I guess it'd be worth it and she'd be happy I'm doing that she'd just be happy to I'm still here I guess yeah I think me like much of the our cycling Community we've interacted with you occasionally through the years at races training spins whatever and I'm watching you from the outside in I'm watching you change and you're becoming different you're going for from a young lad to becoming a man you're becoming resilient articulate and honestly Sean you are fast becoming like the best Advocate we have for all safety yeah well that's a nice confident to get so I appreciate it but I feel like I've been taught a whole lifetime is worth of lessons and I'm only 25 you know what I mean like I feel like I've gone through a whole life of you know learning about life and yeah I mean if I can keep on like it is hard I'm not going to lie like it is hard coming in and talking about it and you know some some days you just want to stay in your bed and do nothing but like I said if I can like if someone listens to this and it slows them down or like you know even something that I was working out with another thing I did that got like that got like 150,000 views and you kind of work it out you know roughly calculating between accounting for like International listeners and people that don't drive and stuff but like that's roughly like 40 drivers have heard that have heard me speak and when you're out training it doesn't take you very long to hear to pass 40 cars and then that when you think about that it's like one in 40 people have passed me on my spin today have heard me speak it's kind of like that's pretty good you know and if I can make that even more then that's even better Sean thanks for your time thank you an so if you like this video click on this one I think you like that too and subscribe to the channel because we load more amazing content no as ni as windy
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