And that sort of thing. And we've got a small garden in the back so we can sort of at least sit out and things like that. And... Well Dennis, one of the things... You know, I was trying to sneak out the boy treadmills. He's trying to sneak out that guy. That was quite a... What a retire to tweet. Yeah, I mean, I kind of get where he's coming from in terms of like, I want to get out of the house, but I mean... Yeah, a centity or a boat. He's not going to put it up on Twitter. Yeah, I'm not sure. I'll do it in that maybe. But also, you want to get out of the house. Like, you don't have to advertise that you're out of the house. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, he lives up at the golf course, which is a fair way out of town, which I can kind of imagine. You could do a nice walk around the block up there without really having any place or an invention. So I'm not quite sure why you have to jump in the car and get out, but anyway. It's kind of this thing for everyone. It's different. I got mates who are struggling a lot more than others. And it's something you really have to put a perspective at the end. And for me, personally, I've sort of been quite low-key in this whole thing and just sort of doing my thing. And yeah, I kind of ride every day on Zwift. I need to exercise. It's a part of just to keep me sane, you know. And, you know, like I said, I'm super fortunate that I have a garden and the family's healthy and all those sort of things. And how's the business? On the other hand, you've got... Yeah, the businesses are obviously closed. I mean, it's... we're in the same situation as everybody, right? I mean, you can't sort of sit here and say it's kind of all smiles and sunshine and it's going to be awesome. I mean, our big portion of our business in the service course is travel, obviously, and that's more or less canned for the year, I would say. It's hard to see, isn't it, like, are people going to have a change in attitude to travel when this comes back? September 11 changed forever, our airport experience. It's just miserable to go show airports now, especially London or US. Is this going to just change our outlook? Are people going to have staycations and stuff in there or they're just staying at home and doing shit? I think to me the general sort of feeling with our clients is the moment they can come, they're going to come. That's kind of the sentiment. You know, like most people are like, as soon as I can get the geroenom coming down. Or we have this trip planned to Jika Stan and the customers that have signed up for that are just like they're chomping at the bit. Like as soon as we can go, let's go sort of thing. I mean, it always kind of depends. I mean, I find in general cyclists, especially quite abbot cyclists, they're quite a resilient bunch and they're generally quite adventurous, right? So they're probably the first ones who I would say are back on the plane to get somewhere next to a rather bike. Very sure. Very sure. But I mean, the big problem is we just don't know, right? So I mean, we go through this sort of trying to plan another, you know, in part of the season, which you kind of have to do. But I mean, really, you don't know when people are going to be able to fly again. Speaking of not knowing, let's rewind for a second to when you're getting started on this whole crazy cycling journey. You jump on a plane from across the Atlantic and you head for Belgium and you literally don't know what the next step is. What's that like? I mean, it was, I don't know, for me, it's always been, I mean, that trip for me was quite a big deal. You know, I mean, I grew up in Supergirl, Canada. That was the first time I I kind of really actually got on an airplane that I could remember, right? I mean, I did once when I was like two years old or something. And that feeling of, okay, here I go. And the thing that I always sort of just told myself was, you can always just ask someone for help. You know what I mean? Like, if I, I mean, I, so I'd come on the plane and fly to back through London Heathrow. And I landed in Heathrow and I thought this is Insane like this is pre-internet as well like town. Oh, yeah, I mean I had no idea I mean I was non on Google. I had no idea. There was no Strava. There was no GPS's there was no I mean just kind of you know like the old days he jumped in and and got over there and got a map and and just set off really, I'd set off with a map in my pocket and then ride and just sort of discover places and explore and then after about an hour and a half, two hours, I'd see where I was in the map and try to find a different way back home. Isn't that crazy, like kids listening to this now, like when I was in France as well, I used to go try to map on my pocket as well.
Like that most scene to them like something like Fred Flintstone like they're like a map in her pocket. What age are you lots? Oh, exactly. I mean, you're also thinking like I didn't have a cell phone at this point even Right like it wasn't something you just had. I mean because all you found in my eye photo what 2011 2012 Yeah, I mean I remember you know, I'm not I'm getting up there, but I'm not that old I'm 35. I'm not like, like I'm your granddad here, but you know, I mean even like when I was in my early 20s, it was still a flip phone. You know, the cool phone was the Motorola Razer, right, or the, or maybe a Blackberry by the time I got to like 2024. And there there was no surfing the web on your phone, you know? It's changed super rapidly, that's for sure. But that's our idea of just asking for help. That seems like a common thread that's, you know, kept you perpetuated your whole life nearly up to this point where it's like, you know what, I'll just try to see how it calls and you know if it doesn't work? I can always reset or I can always ask for help along the way. I mean, that's key. I mean, you kind of have to realize that I mean, how are you expected to have all the answers? I mean, it's kind of unreasonable, to be honest. And generally, there's always someone who has more knowledge of a certain thing or is better at you than a certain thing. And the best way for you to grow is to ask questions of those people, right? And there's also a lot of benefit of sort of trying things and making your own mistakes along the way. But whenever you have the opportunity, I mean, what I always sort of did was taking as much information as possible from as many different sources as possible. And then within that information I was able to sort of find, figure out what worked best for my situation. situation. You know, I would. There's a quote I love and it's like, you know, I've had read or to verify our books and one of them is like, you learn from your mistakes, but they don't have to be your mistakes. Oh, exactly. That's fantastic. Great quote. You can take that on your own. Yeah, pretend it's yours. Use it. I will. Come out with a lockdown and just spout in these quotes, like some sort of crazed philosopher. Exactly, exactly. So looking back on, I don't wanna just give it a 30 seconds down, but your whole pro career, because your pro career was class and something I'm massively envious and jealous of as someone who never got to step up to that level, but you've done so much stuff post pro career as well. But looking back on the pro career, National Championship, winning classics with girl, Is there a hoylikes you look at and go, you know, that was the moment I thought, fuck it, I made it. That flight over from Canada was worth it. Yeah, I mean, there's definitely moments that stand out for you. I mean, I think, you know, being national champion is always quite a cool one. You know, wearing that jersey for the year in Europe and was quite special. But I mean, there's some other like really great memories and, you know, the basic ones down to when I signed up for that stash year with Garmin in 2008, flying over and getting picked up in Barcelona and arriving into Jirona and having my suitcase full of all the goodies and my team bike with carbon wheels for training and it was just kind of like those memories are super cool, you know, and that's sort of feeling of, I kind of remember driving on the highway and just kind of being immersed and seeing like the mountains of Spain and all this sort of stuff. And even though the team car broke down and they picked me up and we ended up doing the rest of the drive on the back of a flat. That's a different story. And then, you know, also, you know, you know, being a part of some big successes with Simon and others, I mean, is always super special. Tour de France is a really big highlight for me. Finishing on the champs is, I mean, you really can't explain the, you know, the Tour de France. It really is different. It is bigger every day is a queen stage essentially. And sort of having completed that. Did I read somewhere that you were like parking in Vegas the week before the tour and didn't expect the ride? Well, I was in Vegas the day before. I said, yeah, I got called up like super last minute. I mean, I flew from Vegas back to Vancouver, met my friend at the airport with my bags, flew straight to the UK and started essentially the next day. I had a day and a half for the start. So are you flying to the tour or were you going to hang over? No, I kind of gave myself a day to Vegas. I knew I was heading over. So it was good. But it was a super special event. And it was really great. And the family was there. And for a rider like myself, I was never going to probably do 10, 15 tours. But I always knew I kind of had a shot to do one. And that's really what I tried to focus on and doing it was amazing.
It was a beautiful experience. Do you have a realization during your pro career that you are the guys you used to look at, that you are, it's funny the detachment from us, chatting to a buddy of yours, Mike And I'm like Mike you're one of the best riders in the world like is this not sunk in like I used to race Mike a little bit in Canada and It's almost like he still thinks he's to do race and locally from Canada's like you're one of the best guys in the world like you're But Verdi's hoping you ease off going up the climb in insperc in 2018 Do you have that you know awareness when you're a world or gone? You know what I am one of the very best bike riders on the planet at the moment I I would say for majority of guys, probably not. At the end of the day, most of those riders out there are riding because they just love cycling. And it's kind of funny because I didn't really ever think about it. Probably also because the majority of us start really young. And you kind of like have this, you're just kind of in that flux, right? So when you progress generally, I mean you're sort of progressing with a group of guys around you that you kind of all progress together, if you know what I mean. So a lot of the guys that I was racing with my pro career and that I sort of knew and that was guys that I come through the under 23 ranks with, right? So you think about like Tony Martins and Rui Costas and TJ and Gardin and a lot of these guys who do the same age coming through and you kind of keep moving. because you kind of grow through it together and that that that timeline is quite long. I don't think you really ever realize it's not like you just kind of get plunked in and be like okay now I'm here with the best. It's a really gradual drawn-out process to get there right. So it never seems like sort of an outside shot. I guess is it the nature of contracts as well or you never really feel secure and safe that you've arrived? It feels a little bit promising. Yeah, I think it's a good one. I mean, you kind of have that, OK, I've arrived. But you also think for the vast majority of guys, there's always someone kind of better than you. And we're always so meticulous about trying to just be a bit better and a bit better and better. You kind of get carried away with it, right? You're always surrounded by kind of the best in the world. And when you're in that bubble, I mean, You don't really see the outside world. You know what I mean? I mean, you don't really see that you're a better cyclist than, I don't know, six billion other people. You kind of think like, what you're thinking is, actually there's five guys that are better than me and I want to be better than them. So it's kind of like the whole outside world that kind of doesn't exist a bit. So I've been chatting to the buddies at the moment, like a buddy who's finished, Royden Pro, He's back home in Ireland. He's only got the Conti level, but he's back home and he's not trying as much and he's sort of saying, I'm doing noting a gun crap on the bike. I was like, but you can still go to one of these mass participation events, like a grand fund that was Sportif. There could be 20,000 dudes there. You're still like the 10 fastest guys there, even if you're not trying. That's crazy. Imagine going to the Barcelona city, Martin, and being one of the fastest and dudes there. still pretty elite even when you're not trying them. But it's funny though because even myself now, I mean I still ride quite a lot. Well I ride a lot. How many hours are you in the week now? Like non-lockdown times. Well non-lockdown, it could be anywhere, I don't know, up to, you know, in the summer when I'm guiding or I'm doing things, 25. Solid. Sometimes 30. You're still proud. the pro. But you know it's different, right? It's not a structure and then some things like that. But you know the thing is whenever I ride, I mean I still when I look at my power meter, I look at the watts that I was doing when I was a pro. You know, I don't allow like, I cannot sort of say, ah look you should, you know, you're doing 20 watts less, that's normal, you're not a pro anymore. For some reason that doesn't compute. But when I'm riding, I want to be riding at those numbers that I've been riding when I was a pro, right? And training and things like that. So you kind of have it in it and I completely get where your mates from where you kind of think like, I'm a shipment now because I'm not doing 250 watts or 300 watts in zone three anymore. There's a definite mentality shift between someone a pro-host book because you're still avoidance waft and like as good as the is there's not much fun about trying to end doors like chatting to Tyler Hamilton he says he has me on the tour boat trying her since like 2002 there's a definite shift there between you and him yeah I mean I think there's also a difference in look I raised bikes because I love to ride bikes and I wanted to ride my bike every day and I decided when I was young, the best way for me to do that was to become a pro.
I didn't do it because, you know, I wanted to be a racer. I wanted to ride and racing was the avenue that was going to allow me to ride every day. Right? I love training, probably almost maybe more than racing. And also for me, my outlook was maybe a bit different because you know when I sort of got to the end of racing and not riding okay I got to the end of racing and I said okay I've had enough of racing I'm gonna stop racing and I'm gonna focus on you know my businesses but I still want it to ride I mean the day I retired or tired did my last race you know the next day I wanted to go for a bike ride you know it's because writing is what I love to do. What I found a lot of times with those, you know, riders from, because I also, you know, had a similar conversation with with Christian and the Belden and some others, missed out. They were like burnt out. I mean, these guys, you know, went to the very end and just squeezed everything out of it by erasing us what they knew, you know. And, you know, Christian told me that when He stopped and he left his bike in his bike bag in his garage for two years. Didn't touch a bike. I'm thinking like that's to me that's sad because at some point you must have loved cycling. You must have loved. Something drove you to do that and the other side of it that I feel maybe, and I'm not sure this is true, but I mean of that era of riders. I think there was a lot of other things that weighed very heavily on them. Obviously, a lot of high-level artists wrapped up around. I did a lot of shit they needed to resolve. He didn't come out in that fed investigation for years after he retired. He was walking around with that guilt for a long time. It was interesting, Chappen, I'm actually on his podcast later today. he was on mine last week, but he's really, really nice lagging. He's not what the media portrayal of him was, at least the mainstream media portrayal I got over here in Ireland in the UK. He carried this intense guilt for that period. He wanted to carry that on murder and not betray any of his old friends and teammates, at the same time, I was eating him up and he was raised a good, very moral person. And then he had this dichotomy and he struggled with it every day personally until, and he said the day that he went in, I had one quote that was unbelievable. And I was just like, holy shit, he just said that. He never dreamed winning. He never dreamed the hand of back in an Olympic gold medal would be better than winning one. Oh, it's our collective exhalation in the middle of the podcast. I was never one for holding my attention too long. I remember I used to look at a paragraph and a book and it's like, right, I'll get to that paragraph. And then later on when I got to Boyc Race and I do the same in stages, I go, like, it's an intermediate sprint point. That's my fourth point. I need to just get to, I can just relax a little bit after it. So that's what this is. It's our little intermission. It's our little exhalation or intermediate sprint we can relax after and my time to remind you of how this podcast is funded. It's funded entirely of your contributions on Patreon. It's patreon.com forward slash Anthony underscore Walsh. If you're listening to the podcast, if you're getting value out of it, I would encourage you to jump over and check it out. I've been a big Patreon contributor for years and that's why I decided to form this off Patreon a long time ago. I canceled my Sky subscription and I thought, you know what, why am I giving big corporations like this so much cash? And I went and signed up for a bunch of independent creators who are spending more time listening to likes of Blind Boy, David McWilliams, guys like this who I really enjoyed. I was getting a lot of value off listening to the bike. So that was my idea to form this podcast. And I hope you guys will buy into it. It's patreon.com for slash Anthony under Skollwatch. Now we're back to your schedule broadcast. Like that, it was kind of like a... Like an air hoax desk or an announcer on the airport. Okay, I'm gonna shoot it up back to Christian. Yeah, I mean, I met Tyler two years ago now. And so Tyler sort of just left as I was sort of starting my cycling. my cycling but he was a rider that I was really looked up to. Like, winningly edge and these types of events, it was amazing and that's kind of, I mean those are also the type of races that I really loved and time-trialing and things like that. But I'd never gotten the chance to meet him and I met him a couple of years ago, he was in Spain and Barcelona doing with a plasma maladapt and they had come to to Jerome and I met up with a group of them and stuff. And I met Tyler and he was what I expected. I mean, I was sort of, I had that feeling that, he was someone that was really torn with all this, what was going on and I guess having known other guys, like Mike O'Barry and Van de Vell, and guys of sort of that same sort of group of writers with US Post on stuff like that.
But it kind of blew me away because he sort of knew me and knew of the businesses and he was just super complimenting about what we sort of achieved outside of cycling and that we sort of weren't just that pure racer. that there was, you know, we had other goals in life. And that kind of really took me back a bit because, you know, I didn't think the Tyler would know that, you know, what Lefarica was or what service course was, you know. But here we were sort of sitting down and he was sort of, you know, congratulating me and being very complimentary of what we sort of achieved outside of cycling. That's pretty kill me away. Yeah, yeah, and I think it's kind of like, you know, the guys of that era, I mean, it's difficult because, you know, I know guys of that era that, you know, for whatever reason made those mistakes or took those risks or did whatever they did, but they were good people. Well, this is it. You mentioned they're not very Mike. I lived in Toronto, So Mike used to call to me and we used to ride together a bass. And, you know, like he's an amazing guy. And you're not the worst of your decisions. You're not the worst of your actions. Just like in isolated couple of decisions when you're a kid, doesn't define your entire life. And it's kind of, I mean, you have to sort of step back and think about this whole thing also in a different light. And I think a lot of people in a certain perspectives can't quite understand it because obviously it was the wrong decision, right? Like they were cheating. But you think about being as a bike rider already, you're in this completely isolated environment, right? Like you're in this bubble and the outside world almost doesn't exist, right? And you're these guys who are overseas, they're young. I mean, you're living in Jirona, just like there's a few other pros around. And it's like nothing else exists. You're very training of day. You're in the team. You're this, you're that. And you know, it's kind of like those decisions can probably get made, the wrong decisions can probably get made pretty easily because you're all you're kind of doing. And essentially, you're justifying yourself within a small group of people doing the same thing when the rest of the world kind of isn't really there if I'm kind of explaining myself well. Yeah. And, you know, I never, for me personally, I never really judge those guys for the mistakes they made because I mean, I'm not the person to do that. I mean, it's... I just see, like, I know, like, bodies are more either, you know, not to drop anyone and shit our bodies here are accountants, executives and businesses, bankers, whatever. People cook corners to get promotions in work. They cook corners where there's a financial incentive to cook corner. That's what we have. It's just a different means of cooking. It seems more invasive because we're taking a pail or putting an injection in. But there's a huge financial incentive to cook that corner. Yeah, of course. I mean, there is, and there's, you know, you think about, like what I was just saying, it's like I have made my decision early on when I was a writer. And, you know, a lot of that came from the influence around me, you know, starting a small Canadian team and, you know, doping was something that never really even existed because, well, once no one even knew it existed or knew about it or anything, right? I mean, we were just kind of bunching naive young kids. But I sort of take in that direction in how I wanted to pursue my career. But that's my, that's how I wanted to do it, right? And I can't shit on someone else for the decisions they make in their life. What you could, but all that's generally doing is taking away. I remember on early days on Garmin or a slipstream, there were some riders on the team that you know, some younger American writers, you know, they would just get like so angry, right, about, about speculation, even, you know what, because then what all it turns into is anytime someone beats you, you think they're doping, right, which isn't the case, right, that's not the case. I mean, the sport has obviously changed dramatically for... It had to be the temptation to think that around then, because for a right or wrong, everyone was tired without Armstrong, and the Puerto brush post that era. Like how annoying is it for Chris Froome to be winning Tour de France in 2017 and answering questions about a dude from 12, 15 years ago? It's like asking Armstrong about Le Mans or something back in the day. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think it's, I don't know, it's, it's, unfortunately something that's, you know, the legacy seems to be sort of dragging on and cycling. It is getting better. I mean, obviously nowadays it's, you know, my personal thing, you'd have to be an absolute idiot to try to take anything because, you know, the testing is so intense and, you know, the testing equipment is so precise. Like even when I was still racing, I mean what actually made me apprehensive and what made me a little bit anxious was not testing positive for something. It was actually like the issue was starting to become that the equipment was so precise that you could start to have issues with the food that you're eating.
Yes. Right? you start to think about like, you know, I'm going on a holiday in Mexico. And I'm actually scared shitless that I might come back and test positive for a computer all. Well, I'm saying both. I'm back to standing on the tandem. And so as part of that, we've got a competition test and the testers just land up at the house. And the force time they landed the house, I'm just like, shit, like, I, because I'm coming from a place where I've been going to out of the sport for 18 months and then, plus I was never had that strictness about it because I never had whereabouts as a county lawyer. So then when you come back now, because you're getting government funding on tandem, your subject to this whereabouts requirements and you're kind of like, shit, that multivitamin, I didn't check that on the app or did I? headache pill had pseudo-effort in it and it's like, oh, yes. If you're going to get cough or something stupid, like some stupid tarnishes your reputation as much as some big. I mean, we've had it and I've seen it firsthand and like how it's how it's affected guys' careers. I mean, Michael Rogers is one. You know, he had an issue with a computer all that they sort of eventually found. was from some meat he had eaten on while after the tour Beijing or something. Come to the right, that bad meat as well. And like Dair Limpy, who was a friend and former teammate of mine, he tested positive for some obscure drug that turned out, it was he went to just get some gel capsules to take sodium bicarb for time trial, right? So you put in some gel capsules so you can actually down it because eating that stuff was spoonful is not very pleasant. But the pharmacist, he counted out these empty capsules on the pill counter that he hadn't cleaned before he dished out that other medication to a very random client. And you see, I didn't know that and I don't know Darlin to be personally, but I just know from being a cycling fan. And I would have always in my head had an asterisk around any of his results because I knew he'd been popped. But I was guilty as any of the public because I didn't look into what he was popped for the circumstances around it. Oh, I mean, it was. Yeah, it was it was exactly that, right? It was the mistake of of someone kind of not doing their job probably. And, you know, it was incredibly difficult for him and his family, right? That, you know, obviously, like you said, gets tainted with this brush. And, you know, it's like everything now is in question. And, you know, it was mathically unfortunate. And I know to hear him talk about it and to be out training and trying to keep positive, bursting in the tears when he's out trying to train, because he just feels like everything's lost now. It's difficult, I mean, I think that's so, it's so hard for me to sort of have people sitting on the sidelines and just very blatantly are very easily criticizing when there's a lot of things that aren't properly understood, right? When you were talking about that, it's not so easy. When you were talking to me about common display and for the first time, your voice brightened up, it changed gear. It was this excitement that knew opportunity, anything can happen. your life post-cycling. You seem like someone who still gets that excitement about the new opportunity. Like Sarah's, Sabriika, espresso mafia. So I want you to talk about, firstly, the still excitement about that, but also does something like, say, La Fabrika, which you've had for a number of years now, does it start to become the not so shiny penny and your attention focuses on the next thing and it's always on the next thing? You know I think that's something that I've sort of had to, I've been learning to deal with. I mean I think initially it may have been a bit like that. I mean I was very focused on the sort of always the next project. Because one thing that the project always allowed me to do is the creativity and sort of continuing to grow, right? That's something that as a cyclist or as an athlete and for me as a person was always something that was kind of important. Like there was growth and then I was learning something new and then I was moving on and I've always had for whatever reason this personality is like once I've learned something, I've sort of okay, I put that into my skill set, I added in there and then I want to learn something new again. But also in the last couple of years, I mean it's been very intense last five, six years with all the new businesses, right? So we did La Fabrica and then the next year was mafia on the roastery and then later on that same year was a service course and then you know building that a couple years later it's expanding the service course. Now with Oslo and Wilmslow and there's a La Fabrica and Wilmslow and all that sort of stuff. You know I would say right now I mean you definitely go through periods where you're kind of like, okay, you know what, I think I need a break, right, which isn't always easy to say because you, I mean, you're someone that you have immense amount of pressure on yourself to work hard, right?
And for me to sort of feel like, wow, why am I particularly, maybe, why am I not so motivated today or why am I going to this period where I'm not motivated and I honestly don't really want to go to work. Why is that? It's generally not something that you're used to. I think you can only starting a business and that growth process is you have to commit to an unsustainable workload to grow it and to start it. You have to be hands on and you have to be in there and you have to be doing 10, 12 hour days. So that's what I found out. You have to offer the coffee shop last year. And I hired in the manager and everyone to run it. And I just found you just can't get anyone to do. Like no one cares as much about your businesses you care about. Definitely not. Definitely not. So yeah, you have to commit to that. That's that, you know, unsustainable workload, but you have to also understand at the time this is an unsustainable workload, right? So to put strain on relationship? No, not particularly because yeah there's the very small things that sometimes we disagree about but it's like you know ridiculous like the color of the cups or something like that but because because we both are very similar in terms of like commitment to work and we're working essentially together, we're kind of really in it together. But now I'm kind of at the point where it's like, OK, now we need to really start settling into a more realistic rhythm, right? Otherwise, burnouts not far off. And what allows me to do that a little bit is is the bike and then also, I mean, it's crazy, kind of sounds, but like the growth of the service course, I feel has always almost made it more manageable for me because you can start out with the start. You can start out with the start. Exactly. So we've got really good people coming on to take on roles and responsibilities. So that helps a lot in sort of delegating more of that workload, right? So yeah, I mean, I think I still need to just bring it down one more notch. Do you have like a compelling solution for yourself? Like what does not just one particular business, but you as your sort of business career, do you have what does the finish line look like? Because I know a lot of friends I have, whether they've had huge exits from tech companies, but if they don't define what success looks like, they're just on the hamster way or forever. Do you have a finishing line in mind? That's a good question actually. I mean, it would be quite amazing to see the service course continue to grow. I don't know if I'm because of the long that to the point where, you know, there's a good group of people sort of managing that day to day and I can go and spend time riding my bike and traveling the world with my wife. But I think it's something that we're still actually in the point probably defining actually. I don't think we've reached that yet. I don't think we know what exactly the finish line is. But I do know it's getting to the point where I really need to start to find that finish line because it is getting up. I mean, I've sort of now been, you know, I'm quite enthralled with some of these sort of ultra endurance races and things like that that I still would really like to take part and have a crack at well, you know, not that I'm necessary that old, but you know, getting older, you know, it's sort of, it's a world that's really enticing and that you kind of have the potential to, you know, have a crack and be up there in some of the bigger races. So that's something that's still really intriguing to me and, you know, that means maybe stepping back a little bit from the day to day role so I can do that for a year or two. Because I think you do need to walk that path. I know for me I started out in A1 coaching was my first company and then I went off and set up a bunch of different stuff over a number of years. But then I circled back to A1 coaching. But now I feel like at the time when I was in A1 coaching I was like, no, I need to build apps. I need to build software. I need to build B stuff. But now I'm back to it. And it's like that quote, like it's, man never walks in the same river twice because it's never the same man, that's never the same river. I feel like I'm back where I should be, but I'm not the same person and it's not the same company. But it took me that journey of going and setting up things and coming back. Is there any one of your businesses you kind of feel like Fabrika was the fourth one, wasn't it? Yeah, exactly. And I think that'll always be, for us, it'll always be the one. I think it'll always be the one that we sort of compact to. It's the one that my wife is really her passion. And it is kind of the way that it is sort of going. I mean, for us, we've done some other things, especially also on the roasting side, trying different things and sort of that. And it's kind of coming back now to essentially to the beginning.
I mean, I think you're really right. I mean, you have to go and, and I mean, it's essentially a journey also of finding yourself, right, and going out there and trying and seeing what you're capable of, right, and expanding your horizons to a maximum. I mean, I think you would probably say that and going and having done all those things, maybe by the time you've come back to A1, you know, that original A1 is maybe better because of what you sort of, the experience you gathered by trying all those other things and experimenting and doing that. And you as a person come back as a bigger person with a broader skillset. So now- You need to learn for yourself as well because I remember chatting with a businessman or a friend of mine, he's a VC. And at the time at A1, I was showing him the number, showing him our costs and stuff. And he's like, you've found this company now, you need to niche down, now you need to start growing, now you need to, I didn't want to hear it. All you wanted to go and set up the next company because I wanted that feeling of when I got into cycling and everything was new and I was like, a power meter, what the hell is this? Wanna learn everything about it or wanna grow as fast as I can and I wanted to do that in different industries and different brands and yeah, it took going and making mistakes and coming back before I realized shit, I should have maybe listened to him at the start. Yeah, but I mean, I think it's kind of like you said though, it's still important that you made that mistake. Yeah, 100% and learned from it. Yeah, I know you're a bit strapped for time so I just wanna finish up with gravel because it seems to be the question, I can't finish a podcast without talking about. It's fascinating for me because, like you didn't draw a lot, you started out as someone who loved cycling, didn't start out as someone who wanted to make a living out of cycling. You did. And now you're back as someone who loved cycling. The finish line wasn't retirement. It's the finish line as many years down the road, many miles from here. Yeah, no, exactly. Like I said, I love to ride. And I'm growing up in rural Canada, sort of the nature and the outdoors. I mean, I started as a mountain biker. It's always something that was really appealing to me. And when I was training here in Drona's Pro, I mean, a lot of times I rode, let's say off road or gravel roads on my road bike, just because I had these moments where I felt like I just really needed to just get myself into the forest and kind of back in the nature. And then obviously gravel is kind of, you know, it has exploded and it's become this, this amazing part of cycling, whole new sort of discipline. And it's kind of, you know, it's following probably what the general agenda of cycling is these days, which is, you know, more social. It's not necessarily as much about performance or racing anymore as it used to be. And the other side is for a lot of people, It's getting off the roads, no traffic. A sense of a little bit more of adventure and exploration. I think it's something that's really inside all humans. It's kind of wired a little bit that way. And gravel just allows you to just feel like, even if you're just in your backyard. I mean, it feels a bit unknown. It's a bit edgy. Yeah. So it's super cool. I mean, it's such a big world. You can go from racing to just purely adventure to social to, it's very inclusive. You can go and do dirty cans and you can stand on the start line with the pros and do the exact same course and race against them like literally if you want. It's very exciting for just for the average punter to be able to step into something like that. And on the other side, you have sort of your bike packing and what's actually starting to come quite popular now is the ultra races, like the Atlas Mountain race, like this, with a bike packing races. But again, it's an event that you can sign up as a complete newbie. And part of that adventure is just getting through the race. I mean, there's really a handful of people that are really racing those events, right? Well, it reframes with those. And because everyone gone home from a gravel race feels like they won because winning is finishing and participating. going home from the boy craze, 99% of the people are pissed off. Of course, I mean, if you get dropped in a road race, what do you do? I mean, total lift off. Yeah, I mean, in a gravel race, it's kind of expected that you spend some time solo or alone or, you know, it's just, it's a little bit more like cyclocross in that sense, right? Like you're always kind of, there's a race with an race and, and, you know, everyone's shared for you and you just have a party at the end and you get food together and it's kind of fun for everyone, which is super cool. But the bike packing thing has been quite a bit of a bug for that throughout this mountain and I definitely would like to do a few more of those. You mentioned you've got a trip going up in Tajikistan, is there still places left on that if people want to sign up?
Is. Yeah, it's quite a small group, but we've got maybe one or two spots left. Yeah. And that's kind of like, I mean, that's the other thing about the gravel. And that's where thing is, is your opportunity to explore is almost endless. I mean, Tajikistan is a place that you can't even describe it. And I guess it would just blows your mind. I'm kind of spell it. Yes. Until you've ridden 4,500 meter passes and still have 7,000-8,000 meter peaks around you, it's just absolutely mind blowing. It's the vastness and the sheer scale of that part of the world to stand, or cross into China and Nepal, these areas. until you're staring at the mountains that size, it's hard to comprehend and talk about feeling small and kind of feeling. I really kind of highlight that the world is such a big place and we're so tiny. It's pretty amazing for that. Where did that idea for Tajikistan come from? Well, we were myself in a mate of mine here in Jerome, a Peter who's a guide for us in the shop. And a mate of mine, he's also Canadian, but he's lived in Toronto for a few years now. He's 60 and he's traveled around the world a couple of times with my bike. But we sort of started talking about, I mean, we love to explore and travel earlier that year. We've done sort of the Faroe Islands and Iceland and different places like that. And Peter had sort of been through the region before. I mean, I've kind of been eyeing it up for a while because of some people I've seen go through there. But Peter once sort of ridden the Pamir highway through there. But he was left there with a lot of like, it was very inspiring. And he was a part of the tour. He did it some years ago. And so they kind of did straight through to Chica Stan the premier, which was mostly kind of like the paved road. And that, and it's like we really need to go back and explore the gravel. And that's kind of where it started from. We went and just did a trip, right? We did a trip and we did a film about it that you can see on the service course YouTube channel. And then it kind of turned into like, well, you know, let's bring people here because it's a life-changing experience going to Tajikistan. It really is everything from the scenery, but also just to getting back to basics, you know, seeing the people living there. Does it help to figure out what's important? I think the lockdown is definitely done that for a lot of us big time, big time. I mean, when you see how generous the people are with how little they have and how happy they are, I mean, it's really amazing for people to go and one, gain a bit of perspective and see a different culture and what makes other people happy, right? And you kind of leave and bring some of that back with you is priceless. Chris, I'll finish up just to help people. I'm sure there's lads eager to follow you, lads and lasses eager to follow your journey. Where's the best place to follow you? Well, the best place would be probably our social media is kind of our biggest platform. So probably the service course Instagram or my personal Instagram, Christian Meyer, you can find me. It's probably the best way to do that. Yeah, exactly. And follow along. If anyone is going to Gerona, I normally try and get over a few times a year. I've dropped a lot of cash in your breakfast establishment. Some of the best breakfast in town. Yeah, great. Christian, it was a pleasure. Thank you very much. Oh, I told you it was fire. It was fire. It was really interesting. Even editing this podcast back, I found myself just completely absorbed and engaged and listened to that conversation. Totally enjoyable. Thanks for your attention. If you're enjoying it, I would encourage you to jump on over to patreon.com forward slash Anthony, Underscore World, get me a beer, get me a coffee, tip the cup and say well done. I'm trying to get onto a regular schedule between this and the YouTube channel because you know it's just that feels like I'm spinning one play, getting back on then I'm jumping over to the next one so I'm committing to a new upload schedule of Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Monday, YouTube, Wednesday, podcast, Friday, YouTube and if I have bonus episodes during the week, so be it but they'll be that, they'll be a bonus. So that's it, you can look out for the podcast every Wednesday. Thank you for your attention, thank you for listening, roadman, and I'll be back next Wednesday with another World Tour guest, Epic. So So .