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Tour de France Stage 15. Pogacar V Jonas , head to head.
It was an amazing stage but a tactical nightmare for Visma.
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He he Welcome to our special roadman TR to France live podcast for Stage 15 Stage 15 at the Tour of France pogacha vegard head-to-head it's going to be one of the key stages in this year's turle France and there's some huge takeaways from it so we wanted to jump on and do a really special reaction show not our normal stuff but we're going to give it a go Sarah a lot to unpack from today's stage so much to unpack with first I want to talk about a few things that happened last night or you know kind of over what happened on yesterday's stage and things that have unfolded because of that so today we heard that the tur of frany organizers are really introducing much stricter covid-19 regulations so new measures basically because there's been a space of covid-19 space space okay a lot of how many has to happen for it to be a space a space a six there's another yeah it's an epidemic in the pales Thomas has it pick coocks out with it we already lost a Uso with it probably some lesser known riters that are suffering with it as well yeah it's certainly there I know we were chatting about us yesterday and there has been some Rumblings a lot of writers giving out that if uh other writers I know Gant Thomas is actively riding in The Paton he has uh tested positive for covid and I think there's some Rumblings amongst other Riders and other teams to say look if you do test positive you shouldn't be riding I don't know so it's it's kind of it's a little bit of a gray area but they are getting a little bit stricter on masks and a little bit of distancing in The Paddock and when they're all meeting going up for sign on so that's interesting the other thing that happened yesterday that had the internet a light was crisp man this it was a pack of the Doritos Doritos blue package you order to I think they're chilly Heat Wave you want want to get a CH chilly heat wave in your eye that would that would really really hurt but apparently he spent it spent the night in jail last night D don't mess about they don't apparently they okay so I don't know how he was he got he threw these or chips at pogy first and then a couple of seconds later he was able to throw more crisps at he tried to take a slap out of my are you sure I think yeah I don't know I thought I thought people were saying that it I it was it was kind of like a slap okay and he almost kind of swerved so I'm not sure if you made contact with him but apparently directly after that moment the police were on him like a rash and they tackled him have phones now you can't get away with it you can't get away with it the girl that threw the C and Vander Paul's wheel as well got identified I think she got charged as well did she I didn't know that I know that her lawyers had to release a statement but I was really surprised that it took the police to tackle this guy because there was a good few seconds that had you know elapsed between the two Riders getting attacked I think is like a fair enough word for it apparently eyewitnesses and people who were on the climb with this guy said that he was really nice and he's a cycling fan not his first time going being uh following the CH of France and supporting cycling but somebody basically said that he had a very drunken afternoon so he just got absolutely ex no hammered no it doesn't excuse it but he was absolutely wasted I mean in the photos the zoom UPS of his face I was thinking yesterday he's either a psychopath or he's you know he's he's deranged mentally but I think he's just absolutely locked off his face so yeah a nearby police officer pushed him off the road quite abruptly they said so I'd say that was pretty say they took him down and then he was taken away in a police car afterwards and Adam Hansen who we always talk about on the podcast he's the presid president CPA said that they are definitely pushing for some action to be taken against this guy okay let's jump into Stage 15 so it was one of the pivotal if not the queen stage this year's Tour of France it's 197.4 kilm we started out in luden Ville and we finished on the iconic Plateau to ba it was actually littered off day with these iconic climbs we had to call the parasit that's like 7
Km at 7.8% then we had to call the Mente that's 9.3 km at 99.1% that's brutal and then the called P aspe now that's a famous climb because in 1995 I think it was we had Fabio cerelli it was 1995 the Olympic champion from 1992 Fabio cerelli who his teammates with Lance Armstrong tragically passed away on the on the called the P ASE descent so and he was 25 and Oly Olympic champ that year as well it's OIC champ in 92 in '92 so wow so sad that's a descent that is you know it's notoriously dangerous as well and it was interesting actually to watch Pacha not only on that descent but all the descents he gave kind of two bike lens everyone else is flush but he gave two bike lens to the bik conf front of him now if that's anyone else in the pelaton maybe yonas gets away with it as well what happen is the rer from behind comes and he fills in the Gap so garant talked about this in the jro where he tried to give space on the sense to allow himself to see a Pall and he said you just get dive bombed and someone to come in so it shows you a claim that pogacha is held in the Pelon that he can leave that Gap and no one comes to fils it in he was actually doing that yesterday as well I noticed just giving himself that extra millisecond to react if anything happened in front of him thankfully nothing did H then the Riders went over seems like it was just up and down all day the call the an that's a 10 km climb at 88.2% before the iconic Plateau the buy a 15.8 km long with an average gradient of 7.99% but many like slopes on that up over double digit so really really tough and we've seen huge battles there in the past pantani won up there in 1998 and I could get a years wrong but Armstrong one twice up there I think it was 2002 and 2004 on the way to another two of his tour to France victories so we've seen battles we've seen blood spilled up there through the years it looked like hell I don't know how long it would take me to get up these climbs I mean it it was just Insanity you're going from 8% 9% into 133% and then they were kind of saying oh the gradient going to kind of come down a little bit here into a 9% so it was it's really really tough it really kicked off on the parasit stra away we seen Reuters going out the back I think H Arnold was one of the first people I see him getting dropped cavish didn't hold on too long really difficult day for the bigger guys yeah that's what I noticed turned on the footage and with 195 1996 kilometers to go there's people getting dropped so there was all day we were kind of looking at Mark aes's group and where he was how far far back he was from pogy or the leaders basically and we're kind of thinking is he going to get time cut now can you explain the time cut to us cuz it's can be a little bit is a little bit confusing so the race each stage is classified into one of six buckets so it's assigned a coefficient in advance of the stage on a difficulty of 1 to six so a totally flat stage like we're going to see for Stage 15 it's probably given a coefficient of one this was given a coefficient of six which is a very mountainous stage then you take the Winner's average speed and based off the coefficient and the Winner's average speed you calculate a percentage so it's a percentage of the winner's time so for example if it's a coefficient one which is the easiest stage and the average speed ends up being 44k an hour they have 9% of the winner's time to get in but obviously this was a very difficult mount in a stage and actually I think I'm not sure if it was a coefficient five or six it might have been a coefficient five I can't quite what would it take for it to be a six today was brutal not sure I didn't check what coish it was but they'll calculate then the winner speed and then uh you know figure it out based off that so if you have you know you might have 14 15% of the winner's time on a day like this and I think a few of them actually one riter missed a Time cut today don't know who that was but the big group containing cavish that everyone was worried about I think
They were very very close to it but the judge and the jury have this discretion to extend the time court and they applied a rule which because the race start is going uphill they actually gave a little bit extra that's interesting yeah it was an interesting one look no one wants to see the time Cut's not there to get rid of writers who are healthy who are getting through the time Cut's really to discourage people who are injured or sick for continuing the tur of France no one has an incentive to get rid of the biggest stars in the race like no one wants to see Cavendish yasper Phillips and you know these guys kicked out of the race we want we want to see them yeah we want to see them finish it 133% it just doesn't seem like a lot to me we figure out year might be more than that okay okay okay we worked there around 50 yard minutes today okay there's there's a bit there uh we seen a little bit of drama in the SC I know we want to get into talking about yanis Pacha and that battle but we did see a little bit of drama in the scoda Sprint after with 160k to go yeah so I have I was watching this with interest um because I absolutely love watching this point of classification I think those guys are cool but I'm really interested watching this and we had gmet he's in the green jersey already he's leading points classification coming up to the banner basically the line for where they get the the Sprint points takes kind of a flyer starts a Sprint and I think it was bling matches that was kind of started off sprinting at the same time look to me that gmet completely chopped bling at this stage and you could kind of see that bling was putting his hands up and protesting and looking for he looked really really annoyed what is the story with this chopping I don't understand like why is some of it allowed and then some of it's absolutely not allowed chopping you mean deviation deviation off his line yeah yeah the Sprint deviation it's been more strictly enforced this year than it has previously in our years it's meant to be once you launch your Sprint once you get to Sprint velocity so if you're in the saddle you're not in Sprint velocity if you're navigating around you're not Sprint velocity but the moment you start your Sprint you're meant to stay in a straight line now where this gets a little bit confusing is if the road doesn't go straight you can follow the line of the road so for me BM that was a clear violation and you know I think he should have been disqualified for that and someone might let us know in the comments cuz we've gone on there just after the stage finish so maybe he has been disqualified cuz I haven't seen the UCI communic after that would be disqualified from the race or disqualified from that winning that point okay gotcha okay interesting no points from her and we did see G sprinting on the drops today you were giving it yesterday we were watching some no he did Sprint the drops today did he yeah oh I didn't know was that yeah he was on the drops as far as I know yesterday on the drops yeah sorry yesterday sprinted on the yesterday you were giving out about all the sprinters sprinting on the h and you're like what is going on I get if I if me and Anthony are ever sprinting for a t sign I think you you go pretty easy I mean in those days but if I ever Sprint and I'm on the hoods you're like oh that's embarrassing Sprint of the drops so yeah today the break again had no real chance like we had 2 30 minutes at the bottom of the final climb and like we had caraz in there he was kind of Last Man Standing the break Healey was in there for a while who else do we have in there we had lawren the PLO was in there good climber we had einrich Mass was in there Johansson from Uno X Uno X have had a great order France they have they they've been amazing I don't know if they've been really spread on by the loss of I think it's one of the guys from the development team he was Norwegian who passed away just I think tur T of Austria I think yeah I'm pretty sure it was and I don't know I think not that they would have wouldn't have done as well but it's really given them impetus and yeah they're definitely front and center I
Mean Johannes Abramson has really he really wore that polka Doh Jersey for so many days at the beginning with pride so that's always cool to see one of the kind of smaller teams performing yeah there wasn't a whole pile to be said about the break today it was a big group at one point they didn't cooperate well they could have had a lot more Advantage into the bottom of the climb I think they only had 2 minutes 30 into the bottom of the final climb which just wasn't enough the way it transpired and the speed poacha roted that and I have some comparisons to Historic speeds people roted that which I'll give you in a minute because was a lot lot faster Marco pantani when he won in 1998 which I don't know I'm sure online alarm bells are going to be going off at that but we won't get into that won't speculate uh so yeah the break today was there were you know Masters on downfall but just not cooperating but I think they would have needed five minutes or so into the base of that climb they only had two and a half caraz went for broke at a certain point but really all the action came from the GC group today I'm not a huge fan of Carz but he has been pretty impressed and today he was like the honey badger any he was really cool today anytime okay so he got passed he got passed by by Riders and he'd you know really work hard to get back onto a wheel then he'd he'd just dig in stay on like jesz lot of TV attacks though like you got to separate like at the bottom of the crime like you got to ride bottom to top as fast as you can and when caraz launches like 1100 watt Sprints for 10 seconds and then he settles back into a rhythm no one's going to ride with him then like he needs to be a little bit smarter and Jonathan V is in commentary as well Echo and that saying the exact same thing the only chance they have as a group is to get iror Mass going through to get Lawrence the PLO going through to just get them rolling you know one after the other and to get that little bit of Arrow the insistence that you get by sitting in someone's well it's not that much but it is still significant Jonathan V has been really good uh because he even though he's the owner of EF education he's still quite vocal and honest about the tactics that his Riders are employing whether he agrees with them or not I mean yesterday the Italian uh the national uh champ betal he basically pulled out I thought it was from Co but Jonathan FS basically came on and said well you know what he kind of just gives up if he doesn't have just pull an Italian if he doesn't have he doesn't feel he has a goal or he's going to place in the top 10 or you know he's got a chance at winning stage he's he just drops the head so it is quite interesting to hear from that perspective as well what was much much more interesting for me was yumos vimma visma Lisa bikes Tactics still haven't got out having to call him YY Vima Lisa bikes tactics today Jorgenson was the only Rider left with yonas on the final climb now he did set an animal Pace like he rode the first so what was it a it was a 14.8 or 15.8 km climb bottom to top so we rolled till 10K to go on the climb and you know what really impressed me about him so he is look I love the these roles of the domestic and super domestic and he's he's a standalone Rider if he wasn't on a team with yonas he exactly he's he's absolutely insane what really stood out for me in those last I was saying to you as you were watching it just as he was about to peel off for those 10 last meters he got out of the saddle and sprinted and emptied himself completely you know what I mean just that EC going into the race and he still wrote himself to a stand still so that's you know Chapo to him for that I don't agree with how they executed their tactics on the dayt was a disaster but you can't fault them for effort yeah totally and so do you think that viz Malisa bike kind of hurt themselves more today using those T tactics than they actually hurt Pacha well like okay so Jorgenson rode a super Tempo so those first five odd kilometers that he rode on the front like he
Dropped almea he dropped Shone he dropped Derk G he dropped Rodriguez which has been a nightmare sort of France for any else and it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse so he the tempo he set was really hard infernal as Sean Kik Kelly said about 20 million times infernal Pace okay so the question is you Ro it all day and you commit for as they did to to commit it to the stage you don't need to catch that break so why they start riding so early to control the break I don't understand the argument for it is you want to make the day as hard as possible so you want to start as early as possible to make the day as hard as possible Grant but I actually think that when you leave only Jorgenson on the final climb and then yonas goes from 10 kilm you have the way transport right so yonas goes from 10K out he rides until 5K to go with paga and paga launches a 5k to go so the 5K that paga is in yonas wheel so I was trying to do some maths quick maths before this so based off the times yesterday's climb we can assume both these Riders are doing just under seven watts per kilogram on it it's an 8% grade so pogacha being in Jonas's slipstream it's worth around 25 watts to him it's not a negligent amount everyone thinks there's no draft benefit in the hill but the speed these guys are going there is a draft benefit so he's essentially handicapping himself by 25 watts for the first 5 kilm of The Climb and I think that's a huge reason why pogacha is able to ride away from him if you take the if you take the idea of instead of riding to control the break all day and make it hard as possible all day if they leave the break go out to 8 nine minutes and they start riding later into the stage they pick up riding at 100K they still have Yan trap Nick they still have the other guys to ride later into the stage Wilco kelderman ride later into the stage maybe you can use then Jorgenson from 10K to 5K and it's a much more more effective springboard for yonas the Counterpoint is that you want to try and make it hard all day but you know the Counterpoint doesn't play out because we can see how this played out and it was a bad tactic it didn't work at all but yeah that's it the the Lisa bike guys domestics or helpers I agree with you we're dropping off very easily which I kind of thought Dro off easily EAS Sor early sorry early so they they were they were left basically with as you said just Jorgenson at the end but why would that why would they that be the tactic if UAE aren't really going to ride at that stage you know what I mean they're controlling it so why I totally agree with you it baffled me as to why they didn't take the pace back a little bit and have more bodies they should have just started later like they should let the break go out to 8 minutes or 9 minutes they don't care about the stage whatever about the bonus seconds it doesn't matter it's 106 like it's a negligible difference but Let The Brak go out don't worry about controlling that start right in front 100K and then you have more men to spare so you can use people and preserve Jorgenson who's going to be the last man for that 10K to 5K to go and yonas only has to go from 5K instead of going from 10K that what should have been done why they wanted to do it is they wanted to make the whole day as hard as possible so they took up Ryden a really hard tempo as early as possible to put Taj under as much pressure to burn as many kils as possible yesterday we were chatting and the whole thing kind of hinges on the bet that either side has taken that UAE are betting that Jonas has come into the race so undercooked that he's going to get weaker and weaker that he hasn't got the preparation done Vima are taking the Counterpoint bet to that there saying he's come into the race with so little preparation done that he's fresh and he's going to get stronger and stronger as the race come on we've seen uae's perspective as the correct one and not yumos perspective as the correct one I thought they had a tactical nightmare today and yonis has effectively lost the Tour of France today yeah I think Podi has it he looked comfortable didn't he I mean well
No I kind of take that back it's really hard po Podi I wouldn't like to play poker with him because he just he's very hard to read isn't he I mean there is some tals when him and uh yonas went at one stage P Podi very nantly took both hands off the bars took something to eat just just looked like he was going to chill him back there so he is kind of you know hard to read or maybe that these are like games that mind get games they're playing along the way who knows but I think Podi I personally think he has his own up at this stage so Pacha Road 3944 from bottom to top of plateau debay that's three minutes and 44 seconds faster than the fastest ever time set by Marco pontani up to climb so to put that into perspective yonas rote 40 minutes and 52 evapo Roe 4035 pantani roote 4328 so vinard has gone up faster evapo has gone up Armstrong for his 2004 win Roe 4531 so that shows you how far it's gone technology has moved on an awful lot tires rolling resistance Arrow helmets Arrow socks drive train efficiency a lot of that has moved on very very far but it's still a beastly performance the data yesterday from pogacha for the final climb for 20 for 27 minutes now it was a altitude effort so it worked out a 6.83 watts per kilogram for 27 minutes but if you normalize that sea level values that's 7.14 watts per kilogram for 27 minutes take your weight put that into a calculator now multiply it by 7.14 and see like for me i' have 560 Watts or something for 27 minutes the whole paga yesterday it's insane oh what a beast AB beast mode uh post it was you know relaxed paga he as usual he's kind of a he's very good on camera he's not that he doesn't not that he holds his cards close to his chest but he's always very thankful of his teammates and have a little short quote from him there I'd never imagin this outcome after a second week I'm so super happy with my shape but it was also super hot and really hard day today usually I always struggle with the heat and today the team did a super cool job super good job of cooling me down it was an incredible day so I came to the bottom of the last clim I was on the limit when he honest tried to drop me but I could see he was suffering too when he tried to drop me the last time I saw that he did didn't have the legs to go to the top so I tried on my own but it was super tough in the final the cooling has become such a huge part yeah it was 30° in the valley today and if I'm anywhere that's 30° I need to be beside a pool I'm just not I mean just the efforts that these guys are putting into to stay cool all these new cooling protocols that they have but yeah that's a very warm day yeah we had Ross mcra on the podcast who is the president or vice president of core so if you see any of the athletes now they've they wearing a little core strap on the side of their heart rate and that's because you can flick up a data screen on your garment to show you your core body temperature and a small increase in your core body temperature results in a massive drop off in your power and you see me I was on the W bike in here last week and I got my core body temperature up to 38.5 and it's insane H like my power went from so I started off at 37° so it was 200 Watts at 100 heart rate and staying at 200 watts and gone to 38.5 de my heart rate went to 160 so a 60b difference in my heart rate for the same power so it shows you how important cooling is and it's been massively prioritized now yeah I think it has I mean you can tell me but if you know five years ago I know maybe longer did you see those big blocks of ice in Tights being past out riders that has been going a while but I don't think there was an awareness as to how important it was a big change that you're not seeing is coming over the top of the Des sense now you used to see newspapers getting hand out and rers putting back on Giles they're doing the opposite now so at the top of these descents rers taking on Ice Co bottles and they're pouring all themselves and they're shivering down
Seen that yeah seen that absolutely shivering down the desense in a frantic attempt to just drop the core temperature so it hit the bottom in the next climb especially a day like today where it's up and down and up and down it's really really important they've got that big bit of kind of core temperature wiggle room when they start the next climb 100% okay fascinating so you want to go into look at the classifications yeah let's have a look look so w will you stick up the GC and we have a look at it so I have GC here somewhere so GC do you want to run through there early yeah so GC we have Pacha and then behind pagach we have yonas vingard he is 3 minutes and 9 seconds down then in third we have rco who is 5 minutes and 19 seconds down podium up in there yeah it is it really is because next is Joe almea U actually doing a great ride today because you got between orans was riding at the base at climb inside the first 5k I managed to like claw his way back and some we have he finished like I'm going to say he finished like fourth or fifth on today stage it was an incredible ride from so he's 10 minutes and 54 off uh T Pacha on the GC and then as we go down we've got Landa Rodriguez Yates is somebody of note 13 minutes 38 down Derek G we always like to see him doing well he's Canadian 16 minutes down and Ben Healey obviously I'm roaring Ben on every time I see him make those crazy crazy go attacks he's 29 minutes down now he's 13th on GC any sorry cross cross I know people with Ben Healey I've seen commentators or you know not commentators but people on Twitter talking about oh if Ben hadn't a set up on the G stage he'd be much higher on GC cuz he set up to wait for carass to drop him back up but if he doesn't sit up on the G stage like he's never getting allowed in the break so he's not tth on GC because the break has taken days that he's gone to the finish in the break and it's taken time I love Ben's attitude as well a brilliant article yesterday in cycling news and they just got an amazing quote from just saying like look everybody it's just bike racing like you know people coming at me and for me online and you know dissing me and giving me grief over my tactics and I shouldn't do this and do that he's like relax everyone it's bike racing which I love that so where we dro the mountains classification the mountains classification oddly resembles the general classification as it often does so I'll do run for the top trade up talk about why onas was in the polka dot today though you just you're you're in a polka dot j is yourself today Anthony pot 84 kilos Taj is leading the king of the mountains competition with 77 points yonas 58 points in second Place Pacha obviously can't wear two jerseys at once he's leading the GC so the second place in that competition wears the Jersey so yonas wore it as a I have this assumption that they only make it in extra extra extra small but we had abrahamson who's in it all week and he's a big dude so a big dud maybe you have to get that custom made for him yeah I think the Y the the the Jersey looked a little bit floppy on vinger guard today Jersey looks so skinny yeah REM goes toward in that classification of 42 points I don't Enis that going to change too much but you do get a lot of points for being out in the Breakaway so depending on how the next few stages are played y both definitely don't have I don't can't see them playing that card again so I don't know maybe breakaways have more of a chance in the third week people were not seeing in the top of any of these are again as we spoke by inos you know a lot of the sidal quick oh sorry rco is there for sidal but yeah it's just like no inos at all it's just blatant that there's nobody there representing them in Forth Jonas Abramson shout out to him he as again he I love him I love his backstory he basically had delayed puberty uh as he was kind of coming up the ranks as a junior decided this wasn't working for him put on 20 kilograms and he spent the first week and a bit in the polka jersey in the CH of France it's kind of like a
Disney Pro Disney kind of story isn't it your weird Disney story Bo yeah you're to different someone would watch it we would we'll finish up on this classifications with the Sprint classification we talk about deviation today from BM maybe someone has let us know in the comments if he actually got relegated in that or not but bam is leading that with a massive Gap at the moment of 363 points from yasper disaster philipsson at 277 H Bron con cards from kofus is 147 Arnold Lee 142 Anthony Tes 141 and Pacha is sixth in that competition as well at 136 bingum today I think he went for two of the Sprints the second the first one we spoke about where I feel that he he deviated and his points should be taken away from him second one he emptied himself and then I think it went straight into a climb very soon there after they were climbing and his Cadence was going up that climb was probably about 20 you know rotations he for The Bu he's waiting for the bus but it was just like yeah he he completely emptied himself so shap out to him for that okay what about what's happening next tomorrow what are we going to do all day well tomorrow's a rest day so we're going to be recuperating from preparation how what will the Riders do tomorrow when we think rest day we think Netflix and chill yeah they will do a lot of Netflix and chill they'll spend a lot of time in their rooms they will chill a lot they'll probably do a ride dependent no almost certainly do a ride dependent on the rider they might do some openers I they could ride anywhere between an hour and three hours they might do a few openers to keep the body the body likes consistency and if you go from doing hard hard hard like people often get sick after racing blocks like this because as soon as you rest the body just wants to shut down completely so even after the tour to France is over you'll see a lot of them do a 321 protocol so instead of taking the day off after the T to France they'll Ride three hours the day after that they'll ride two hours the day after that they'll ride one hour and the day after that they'll take off so they'll slowly come down through the gears but on a rest day yeah anything from one to three hours maybe a few efforts thrown in massage hang out with family will be allowed to visit a lot of them and then media obligations yeah there's there's very few writers if any that would take complete a off the bike isn't there it's kind of unheard of so massage a ride and then Netflix and Sh yeah and then we are into Stage 15 which is finishing in nemes it's 188.50 km not much to report on it there's one category 4 climb wind forecast is looking like it's pretty still looks like a day for the sprinters so let's see since cavish didn't get time caught you know maybe it's another one for him but who knows yeah maybe s Benner can can up the ranks he's not looking great is he yeah Ro man thank you for tuning in to a tour to France special edition before you head off can I ask you to check out the sponsors in the show notes down below because without them this show wouldn't be possible and if you like this video you can see more of myself and Sarah up here where we're talking about what all the pros eat to get so lean and please don't forget to subscribe to the channel because we're going to be going live all next week for the tour to France from Tuesday to Sunday we're going to follow the Riders all the way to ni thanks for chatting
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